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  1. #1
    500+ This must be a daytime job JBaymore's Avatar
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    MS's Flightsim: The Plot Thickens

    Looks like the MS flightsim franchise is not dead........ but is morphing into an online "game"?

    http://members.microsoft.com/careers...0-0EE92F108D14

    Looks like they weren't actually laying off PEOPLE....... they were laying off a whole concept and focus.

    Windows Games Live........ depressing.


    (Thanks to "Fr. Bill" for posting this link elsewhere.)

    best,

    ..................john
    http://www.elliesystems.com/wForums/uploads/48/EllieBetaTestTeamBanner.jpg

  2. #2
    500+ This must be a daytime job BHawthorne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBaymore View Post
    Looks like the MS flightsim franchise is not dead........ but is morphing into an online "game"?

    http://members.microsoft.com/careers...0-0EE92F108D14

    Looks like they weren't actually laying off PEOPLE....... they were laying off a whole concept and focus.

    Windows Games Live........ depressing.


    (Thanks to "Fr. Bill" for posting this link elsewhere.)

    best,

    ..................john
    I really have no issue with it if it goes totally online in design. Just don't dumb it down in the process.

    Here's the link:
    Job Title: Art Management
    Job Category: Game Design
    Product: Games
    Date Posted: 01/30/2009
    Job Code: 252532
    Location: WA - Redmond
    Travel Required:




    *To consider similar job openings on MS Careers, use keyword: GAMES

    Join the team responsible for building the most fun and rewarding flying experiences available on Games for Windows Live. Does working on a small, innovative team that delivers the most immersive flight experiences available today on the PC intrigue you? Our technology makes available entire continents - potentially the entire planet - for a detailed and dynamic 3D experience. We are looking for a Project Art Lead who can define, refine, and extend the visual elements while balancing the need for fun and approachability for a broad set of users.
    RESPONSIBILITIES:

    Demonstrate and clearly communicate expectations for quality of work, creativity, originality and professionalism to the art team.
    Provide strong leadership for the art team and provide guidance for overall career development.
    Establish a regular art review schedule internally within the team.
    Ensure that all required art positions are staffed with excellent, qualified persons.
    Manage both internal and external resources
    Consult on a regular basis with the Project Design Lead and Project Developer Lead to set and adjust appropriate art production milestones.
    Drive development and documentation for art processes and tools.
    Work to thoroughly understand our customers and provide guidance to the team that will allow them to build assets that support our customer’s desires.
    Locate and establish solid working relationships with outsource vendors.

    QUALIFICATIONS:

    5+ years experience as an Art Lead across multiple shipped titles
    Demonstrated ability to successfully lead a team through the complete product development cycle
    An in-depth knowledge of game development software and techniques (e.g. Max, Photoshop)
    Experience in creating and managing all processes of artwork creation for triple-A titles
    An eye for detail and style, as demonstrated by a top-rate portfolio
    Excellent verbal and written communication skills
    Experience dealing with outsource vendors

  3. #3
    Heli Builder fweinrebe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBaymore View Post
    Looks like the MS flightsim franchise is not dead........ but is morphing into an online "game"?
    What does online mean? Are the MSFS program files stored on your PC or on the server? And do you see only the aircraft cockpit, scenery etc via a sort of Terminal Server screen?

    If so it means that FSPUIC will not work or WideServer / WideClient will stream data over the Internet. Then you will have a delay between MSFS and your cockpit gauges.

    I am not sure what is meant by "Online"?
    Fritz -> Helicopter Cockpit Builder
    (FSX | TH2Go | Arduino | C# Avionics | CNC)

  4. #4
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    Hi Fritz.

    I believe the concept is that you install some of the game files locally to your own PC and that the program then connects to the internet. This will be like constantly being on a multiplayer session.

    Trouble is the pricing structure will be different. You will have to pay for any extra scenery, planes, sounds, textures, anything! This doesnt sound to bad as many of us do that already, but the difference is that it will all be from Microsoft and that 3rd party developers will not be able to create things without it first being approved by Microsoft. Approval will be costly, technical and legally difficult and so most will not be able do it, plus Microsoft will want a % of each download further increasing the cost.

    If Microsoft go ahead with this it will be the end of FS as we have come to know it. 3rd party flexibility is gone. It will become an arcarde game in structure rather than a sofisticated piece of simulation software with a price scheme to cater for the novice/seasonal user who is content shooting circuits at their local airport every once and a while. If you want to use it across the globe regularly then you will have to pay for the time and the scenery.

    Its an utter discrace!

    Tom
    Last edited by tomenglish2000; 02-17-2009 at 07:29 AM. Reason: Grammatical Error

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  6. #5
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    Hmmm, wonder who will pay the salary to the ATC-controllers on the VATSIM/IVAO networks? Sure they dont want to be there for free anymore if microsoft control the hobby 100%, economically speaking.

    I wont fly there for free either, lol. I want some bucks per hour for being there

    I think microsoft is under-estimating their so far loyal community. I think they are going to bite themselves in the as. And hopefully microsoft will lose money on this if they make the next FS in a way that not gains the enthusiasts

  7. #6
    1000+ Poster - Fantastic Contributor Jackpilot's Avatar
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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by tomenglish2000 View Post
    Hi Fritz.


    If Microsoft go ahead with this it will be the end of FS as we have come to know it. Tom

    Hi Tom

    No no and No... Whatever MS does has not to interfere with what we do, can do, will do...WE have the decision
    See my 2 posts in "FS Software future" page 2....

    GRRRRRRRRR
    Jackpilot
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  8. #7
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    Hi Jackpilot,

    I agree that this doesnt have to affect us, we can continue to use FSX for eternity if we wish. And 3rd party developers can continue to write for it too.

    But without fresh new customers coming into the "old" way of the hobby why should developers continue when the revenue will get smaller and smaller each year. What happens if Windows 11 gets here and has compatability problems with FS? What happens when FSX stops being published? What about in 2019 when FSX looks like some retro throwback?

    We can keep using FSX. I will. The problem is that the new development will stop, the hobby will shrink to a core of enthusiasts and eventualy, without new customers, shops like Engravity and FDS will no longer be economically viable and will be forced to close.

    I hope I am wrong. I really, really do.

  9. #8
    300+ Forum Addict ak49er's Avatar
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    The store must be out of handbaskets , 'cuz alot of things are going to H***...

    JB, I read another article, that catergorically listed out the possible pricing structure for Live! games including FS. It is quite possible we would end up paying for every cloud we fly past and for every foot of runway we want to use. Lame, I would hope some good could come out of this. I fortunatley am not invested into alot of proprietary hardware. I do enjoy using FS9 and really never even entertained upgrading to FSX I always planeed on converting to x-plane. These recent develpoments have forced my hand. And I am truly excited forht enew challenges, the same programming, engineering and functional integration challenges that FS9 presented to me when I introduced myself to this hobby. Could be exciting, but a damn shame at the same time.

  10. #9
    1000+ Poster - Fantastic Contributor Jackpilot's Avatar
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    Hey Tom ( just for fun)

    Quote Originally Posted by tomenglish2000 View Post
    Hi Jackpilot,

    What happens if Windows 11 gets here and has compatability problems with FS?.
    My sim is running on its own computers, No internet connection, no firewalls, no antivirus.no unwanted or unnecessary updating.
    I still run XP... Those computers can run FS3-4-5, and all previous versions of Windows... I remain pretty optimistic..

    Quote Originally Posted by tomenglish2000 View Post
    What happens when FSX stops being published? .
    Buy a few copies now..


    Quote Originally Posted by tomenglish2000 View Post
    what about in 2019 when FSX looks like some retro throwback?.
    Hope I'll still be alive and kicking, in my old klunker of a sim, leaving the yong crowd manage "RocketSim XV" compatibility bugs with Windows 69!!


    Quote Originally Posted by tomenglish2000 View Post
    without new customers, shops like Engravity and FDS will no longer be economically viable and will be forced to close..
    They will adapt to RocketSim...






    .[/QUOTE]
    Jackpilot
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    without PMSystem

  11. #10
    500+ This must be a daytime job
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomenglish2000 View Post
    But without fresh new customers coming into the "old" way of the hobby why should developers continue when the revenue will get smaller and smaller each year.
    Although it seems to be a continual influx of new users paying for FSUIPC or WideFS which keeps me going in full-time development ( ), I tend to think that most add-on developers rely more on new add-ons, not more buyers continually arriving for their older products. this surely is confirmed by some (I won't name them, one in particular) publishers re-hashing very old products in new guises.

    What happens if Windows 11 gets here and has compatability problems with FS?
    Wow. Windows 11? About 8 years from now, at least? Anyway, do you really think MS will dare to diverge that much from compatibility with existing software, even over an 8 year period? It has never happened yet even over much longer periods.

    What happens when FSX stops being published?
    That won't affect me, I've got all the copies I need! (Anyway, see above re: "new" users). There will also be a load of second-hand copies from those now and in future irrationally considering jumping ship!

    What about in 2019 when FSX looks like some retro throwback?
    If it does it will mean there's something absolutely gorgeous in comparison to use! Bring it on!

    We can keep using FSX. I will. The problem is that the new development will stop
    I think it is the other way round. Now there is a lot MORE reason to develop for FS9 and FSX. We all now know for sure that the rug won't be pulled from under us by an FS11 (promised with little backward compatibility) in 18 months time (or less for developers involved in Beta testing. There's also no ESP or TS2 distraction -- which has certainly allowed me to concentrate on FSX and FS9 more.

    Incidentally, I believe there WILL be another MSFS in the future. But I probably will have retired by then.

    Regards

    Pete

  12. Thanks JBaymore, Photon, dnif, magicaldr, dnoize, Jackpilot thanked for this post
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