Motorized Joyrider

[kjg71]

But if you want your sim to act an airplane what you fly it needs to act to match what you should feel in a given attitude:
High speed bank left, sim attitude should be up and banking a little bit on the right to match the feeling of being pushed down your seat.(centrifugal force), and so on.
Remember "Back to the future" ride at Disney.

For a car it would be easier:
turn left, sim bank right
turn right, sim bank left
accelerate, sim pitch up
decelerate, sim pitch down.

Any thoughts?

Alain

Hi Alain, and welcome to this forum.

I believe what you are refering to is G-motion not Full motion....both are interesting effects and it is really personal preference.

You are correct in what you are saying about the move to opposite side for the G-force feeling. I can't speak for Thanos, but I believe for racing he actually does the opposite (or at least can change it to preference) steer left, roll right...steer right, roll left etc.

For home motion sims it seems the trend is to go with either pitch and roll (best for pilots) or yaw/G-motion for the race/track sims..

Roll can certainly replace yaw or G-force simulation....as Thanos is doing, and I can imagine it comes somewhat close (hard to say .....never experienced driving with a joyrider design.)...guess Thanos would have to comment on how he thinks it feels for the driving sims.

Personally, for driving. I would kind of favor the frex design which is slight roll (oppisite of turn) with wheel and pedal staying in place. This is the G-motion you speak of. This of course is what I would prefer if I had to chose one over the other for driving.....unless you could afford to build one for driving and then one just for flight.

The ultimate of course would be one that does all.......yaw (for full-motion) Frex Roll style (for G-motion) and then a quick lever you could pull to switch the roll back to standard (wheel/yoke) moves with Roll) for when playing a flight sim.

Now you got me actually thinking about the "switch lever" idea...hmmm...that would definately be a little challange.

I am not sure you could have the best of both worlds when it came to the flight sim unless the seat itself was moving opposite of the rest of simulator (now we are talking about motion motors for the seat itself). When roll simulator went left, seat would roll (or shift) opposite to the right (slightly)...trying to picture this and it is kind of hard to visualize.....at least on a small affordable scale.....I think gravity is what you are going to be fighting with.

....maybe in this case one of those i-vibe seats (g-force simulation via vibe cues) would be better for G-motion while your simulator did the full motion rolling moves.

hope this gives you some ideas on some of the different ways of thinking/styles.....again, alot of it is really a personal preference

Regards, Kyle

[TronicGr]

I was researching ideas for a car racing sim and found this forum.
I would guess car racing sim would be easier to manage than plane sim.
All your videos are really interesting and congratulation on your simulator, looks very good.
But I am kind of annoyed with what I see.
Your simulator and everyone I have seen match whatever your joystick is doing:
bank 10° left, simulator banks 10° left
bank 30° right, simulator banks 30° right or whatever maximum it is capable.

So if you want your sim to act like the plane (attitude) it's fine, an outside viewer can compare your sim attitude with what he sees on the screen and that will match.
But if you want your sim to act an airplane what you fly it needs to act to match what you should feel in a given attitude:
High speed bank left, sim attitude should be up and banking a little bit on the right to match the feeling of being pushed down your seat.(centrifugal force), and so on.
Remember "Back to the future" ride at Disney.

For a car it would be easier:
turn left, sim bank right
turn right, sim bank left
accelerate, sim pitch up
decelerate, sim pitch down.

Any thoughts?

Alain

Hi Alain,

I already made the joyrider move with g-forces in a driving simulator. And it moves as you describe. It even shakes you around when hits the wall...


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Quuqhjnxwq4"]YouTube - FMS on LiveForSpeed (X-sim) with fixed response time[/ame]

and here in DVD quality:
http://rapidshare.com/files/48921586...edresponce.zip

And the motion is mostly irrelavant of the wheel action. It depends on the g-forces you receive during cornering and accerelaration-braking... You can even see it respond on gear shifting!!

But if you want your sim to act an airplane what you fly it needs to act to match what you should feel in a given attitude:
High speed bank left, sim attitude should be up and banking a little bit on the right to match the feeling of being pushed down your seat.(centrifugal force), and so on.

In these video simulating the acceleration wasn't fully implemented. Portdrvr is now supporting acceleration and much more, but its just being under beta testing now to perfect it before shooting more videos with showing the proper acceleration motion.


Regards, Thanos

PS. No its not permantly a car simulator now... If I remove the wheel I can use the stick for flying with no other modifications...

[tour93]

Wow,
Thanos, this is pretty impressive. I like it
Do you tap into the telemetry data from the game to modify different car's accelerations or reaction to shifting (in automatic-mode) or the wheel and pedals control your movement?

Alain

[TronicGr]

Hi Alain,

Yes you can tap the telemetry data directly from the x-sim interface that retrieves them from LFS. You can change the max values to lower ones for slow cars that doesn't have so extreme performance on acceleration and have different acceleration profiles for each type of car.

All the movement is comming from the telemetry data (even the shift changes moves...!!).

More info on this stuff you can find on www.x-simulator.de

They also have german forum, but if you ask help in english they will reply also in english...!

Regards, Thanos

[tour93]

Thanks, this is great

[tour93]

All the info to start seems to be in that thread.
If I understood anything, everything I need for 2 motors is:

1 PC (with games and all the softwares from www.x-simulator.de)
serial cable or maybe USB to
2 BS2
to
2 HB-25
to
2 motors

Right?

Alain

[TronicGr]

Almost correct...

1 PC

1 basic stamp2

2 HB25 motor controllers

2 motors (car windscreen wipers are the best for this)


and...

1 car battery! (you can use two computer PSU but with their price a battery is performing much better!



Regards, Thanos

[tour93]

Thanks Thanos

[egoexpress]

Hi,

I've found you guys while searching for some details about Thanos's joyrider project.
I am impressed about the amount of knowledge and ideas in this forum!

First of all, I dont have the intention to lure members out of this forum
But I would be pleased, if those, who are interested in the X-Sim Software and its additional feature, to get ForceFeedback effects out of games, would ask their X-Sim related questions in the x-simulator forum.
The software has much potential, but lacks some more people which use it.

We are trying to upgrade the X-Sim software to support electric actuators since some time.
But to be honest, Thanos is the first one, who realised a well working and replicable motor driven solution, to use the X-Sim data with motors.
And you guys have to acknowledge, that it works quite well
Congrats Thanos! Amazing work!

We have developed a DIY stepper actuator, and a stepper control interface with encoder input. But it seems to be a flop, because of the weak steppers, which have not enough torque, to make fast direction changes in when operated with 5khz without motor stall.

Altough Thanos's servo driven joyrider works very well, we are developing an interface right now, which could be connected to any DC motor drivers via pmw output.

The X-Sim Software is able as well to use Peter Dowsons FSUIPC Plugin, and some additional features have been inmplemented, to be able to use it better with the Profiler.

And here is another guy, who uses sucessfully X-Sim with motors.
http://homepages.woosh.co.nz/cwarner/racecarsim.htm

So, while I will scroll through your amazing forum, everyone should feel himself as well wellcome in the X-Sim forum.
I wont make any additional, unrequested promotion....promised!
Remember that we all have the same goal! A perfect and cheap DIY simulator.

regards
ego

Btw, sorry Thanos, for going a little off topic in your thread

[RobiD]

Hi Thanos,

I was chatting to you on your Greek site and found this forum in english. Great.

Quick question, when you were looking at wiper motors, did you look into which motors have stronger torque or were they all about the same torque.

Thanks
David