New Navdata

[Bob Reed]

Ok guys..here it goes and I do not say this to insult anyone! The big companies do not have the problems because they do not update. They are not concerned with flying with the most recent navdata, they are not any where near as demanding as we (the hobbiest) are. They want the software to work so they can teach someone how to use it nothing more. So when new features come out, they do not update until they are told it is safe to. Like now I am having non of the problems you guys are but I am running old software and the original navdata beta. Today I will backup my CDU and try the new navdata if it does not work I will delete the dir and put the old one back. We have this problem with PM because we have become spoiled by the way Enrico used to update it. No other software in the world is done that way. I find I have a lot less head aches if I just wait until I hear that the build is stable before I install it.

[mauriceb]

We have this problem with PM because we have become spoiled by the way Enrico used to update it. No other software in the world is done that way. I find I have a lot less head aches if I just wait until I hear that the build is stable before I install it.

Bob,
That maybe so, but keep in mind that the reason some of us do early updates is because we are having problems with the released version, and in many cases, PM support themselves is asking us to use the beta versions. Perhaps that is their fault for pushing us to be guinea pigs.

Here is a direct quote from their NOTAM "As previously announced, our Navdata updates from January 18th on will be available via Navigraph Navdata Service". Do you see any mention that we should not be using that until it is proven stable? . I would gladly pay PM instead of Navigraph for stable updates if I could do that.

I for one would never have any inclination to update anything if everything worked as it should (or as I think it should). You are indeed very fortunate if you are not having any of the problems others seem to be having, but that is really not the main issue here. What's wrong with PM keeping us informed from time to time about the things that they are fixing, or the known problems which they will address at a later time?

That is simply good customer service, nothing else, nothing more. I don't think that is asking too much after paying more than a thousand dollars for their software. Many software companies that sell expensive software packages publish a list of known issues simply to keep their customers informed and so as not to get countless queries about known issues. Don't you think that would also make sense for PM to do the same?

Maurice

[Bob Reed]

Yes I think a list of known issues would be good. We got spoiled and there is nothing else that can be said about that. It is too bad that things have gone this way but it is what it is. The problem is the navdata. I am not using the most up to date version.. So I am not having the problems I am running older versions of the software and I will not update until I am sure all is stable. The other night (a few weeks ago same software and navdata) I had to change my rout 3 times on Vatsim. No problems . If a sid or star is not there I type it in. Is that not part of the pilots job? This point can be argued until we are all blue but it will change nothing. We have to deal with what we have.

[mauriceb]

This point can be argued until we are all blue but it will change nothing. We have to deal with what we have.

I guess there is no point talking about anything in this forum then since nothing will ever get changed according to you. I find that very sad indeed. And 'dealing with what we have' is exactly what we are doing by calmly talking about it.

I'm not sure why you seem to be getting offended by constructive suggestions. Perhaps the folks at PM don't care about our opinions. But I think they do, especially if they hear the same concerns from many people.

Maurice

[Bob Reed]

Hello mauriceb. Please do not misunderstand what I am saying here. I am not offended in the least! I like reading different ideas. I am saying there is a way around a problem when things don't go as we plan or they should! We need to complain and make sure PM knows how we feel about it. But until things change, which is always a possibility, we need to find a way to go on with our projects. If I was having the trouble you folks are I would be very upset that I could not fly as I want to!!! So I am not offended and I encourage you to continue to let PM know how you feel.

[mauriceb]

So I am not offended and I encourage you to continue to let PM know how you feel.

I guess we are on the same page then . I'm not a PM 'basher' by any means, 'au contraire' in fact. I met Enrico when he came to FDS in Toronto a couple of summers ago, and I was quite impressed by him and by his views on where things were going.
I just think that the direction they seem to be taking now is somehow unnecessarily upsetting many people, and that is very sad when the solution is really quite simple... just keep us informed so that we don't feel (rightly or wrongly) 'abandoned'

Maurice

[oal331]

Both of you have right.
Yes Bob many of us remain in old builds and quite often updates, beacause of the fear for new bugs and problems. All we have somewhere stored a directory "Last stable builds" just in case we will need it in the future after an update. About navdata i also have the old ones, but someday i have to update them because i'm flying online

Maurice,
you also have right. I year before Enrico decided to stop the old forum, we also offered support each other, because Enrico was absent from the forum for many months due to his business trips. We also had many issues to solve, some of them they are ficed, others we have forget them.
Let's see the PmSystmes example. I don't know in which logic to invest my overhead, as the deafault one does not have all the features and has a slow update progress. It is "a heavy" software which needs a separate PC to handle it and i have it somewhere install it waiting for some green light

Anyway, i don't know what PM staff plan to do with all the issues we wrote in the above posts, we need their opinion from their point of view.

If i can make a prosposal, maybe a survey will be a good approach to collect information what PM users want/need. What are you say about it?


Eddie

[whoispankaj]

Yes you are right.There is no point in arguing in this forum about the PM support.We would need to quantify our problem by having a survey or something and putting this across to Enrico saying "This is what your customers feel about the thing that is going on with the support".Its for you to decide.After all we are not paying just 50$ for the software but it is thousands of pounds paid for the software and hence the expectations are high and you need the value of what you pay for...If things still remain the same then i am foreseeing problems with PM similar to the war of Microsoft and Linus.Someone (may be myself ) will start writing free (with some fee offcourse)software for these systems.Unless competition increases the service won't get any better...Seen this concept working in real life...Looks like I have spoken too much...Need to get some sleep...

[oal331]

After all we are not paying just 50$ for the software but it is thousands of pounds paid for the software and hence the expectations are high and you need the value of what you pay for...If things still remain the same then i am foreseeing problems with PM ...........

As i'm working in Software business many years, i have to say that other thing is the money we pay to buy a software "as is" and other thing is the support. With the money we paid before many months to Enrico, we can not have claims for unlimited free of charge support until 2070
.
But.... , before some time ago, in the old forum i made a proposal to have all the "home-customers" an annual fee for support, new builds and navdata. Enrico replied by saying that he doesn't want to take money from us and as he can manage it, he will offer free of charge the support and new builds.
So, until today the things are as he said. We still have free new builds and support via private emails, right?

Maybe time after time things are changing and it will be nice to listen both sides what they want/need

Eddie

[mauriceb]

before some time ago, in the old forum i made a proposal to have all the "home-customers" an annual fee for support, new builds and navdata. Enrico replied by saying that he doesn't want to take money from us and as he can manage it, he will offer free of charge the support and new builds.

Funny you say that because I e-mailed exactly the same suggestion to Enrico last year...to charge a reasonable fee for updates in the future. Enrico was adamant that this wasn't what he would like to do. His heart is definitely in the right place and maybe a survey might help in this case.

But it may just be a case that Enrico simply has too many irons in the fire & unless he finds a way to clone himself, we are just going to have to wait for the 'goodies' . .

In the meantime, I still think more communications from PM would go a long way in restoring our somewhat strained confidence & dampening our often impatient expectations.

Maurice