A320 FMGS beta 26

[AirFan]

Hi Chris68,

Thanks for this nice & detailed contribution

Cheers,
Rob

[Leonidas]

Hi Chris68
I'm happy you join us. First of all could you please repeat the post putting numbers in front of each of them, so we can reference to them easily when we reproduce these situations? Secontly, in some of them I don't understand if something do or should do, e.g. "Altitudes are not in managed, AP and Auto Thrust are off"... In real or in Jeehell software?
Anyway for my first sight I can confirm three of them:
1. Very difficult it the behaviour on landing
2. MCDU - F-Plan Page/ Alternate Input
3. Engine Instruments

I can't confirm:
1. Assume we are in cruise, managed Mode (ALT). The automatic decent starts....(I can start decent anytime by pressing ALT)
2. Start procedure pedestal (I can start the engines with any order)

Regards

[chris68]

Thank you for your reply, Leonidas.
let me explain your mentioned items more precisely. So, you can't confirm Item 5) and 21).

about item 5): you have set a flightplan with all calculations, means altitudes and speeds. The MCDU calculates a point of decent and show it in the F-Plan page and in the PFD's. If you are flying in managed mode ( dot is on) the MCDU start the decent automaticly on that point of decent ( i can't rember that was working so it's still to be tested). It's usually that the ATC give you an earlier decent (the calculated is the latest point of decent), before the calculated top of decent is reached. Then you simple turn the desired altitude into the FCU and pressing the ALT button. Now the MCDU put at this new position the top of decent and make her new calculations ( fuel, speed, time...) and updating the flight plan. You could also use the select mode (pull ALT button) but this will not update the Flight plan, so its just used for temporary changes due to traffic or wheather. In JeeHell Software i couln't decent earlier, only in select mode.

About Item 21). So far i observed there is an certain order to switch on the engine.
Well, the basic conditions are, electric on, Power idle, APU bleed valve on, then you can start the engine in JeeHell only if you do this order: first Swich the ignition to start, then open the fuel valve, if you do it opposite ( first valve then iginition) it will not start the engine. In a real airplane it does, because it's will be controlled by FADEC. Nevertheless the checklist said cautionary or historicaly first inginition on then fuelvalve on as it used in all airplanes without FADEC because otherwise it could going unburned fuel into the engine and that can caused a damaged due to much fuel if the inginition is switched on.

Hope, now everybody can imagine what i mean.

[jeehell]

Hello all,

I'll try to answer each items in Chris list.



1) -------- (I think it's an important problem)
Flight model, Engine model:
I used the iFDG A320 model in FS2004

First i found out, that the acceleration on runway is to less ( +15%)
In addition the acceleration of the engine is to less (+15%)

Very difficult it the behaviour on landing, particular with going to full flaps and lowest speed.
We assume auto-trust ON and we just set the final flaps.
The speed falling down in direction minimum speed ( the floor protection, orange range). Then the engine start the acceleration on time (before the target speed is reached) but the acceleration is to less so under certain circumstances (high decent rate) the speed can fall under the minimum speed (far into the orange range) and switch off the AP. This behaviour is absolute irregular. The speed must be kept on all circumstances above the minimum speed and around the target speed. The control-loop from the FADEC is simply to slow in my opinion.
May be it's only necessary to increase the power of the engine but i think the acceleration of the engines should be faster ( 10% at least).
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is a difficult topic. It's really difficult to create a reaslitic FDE, as there are not that many detailed figures available, and most FDE creators are not real A320 pilots.
As for RWY acceleration, I didn't note anything troubling here. As a real life ATC, I compared take off runs with real A320s, and there is no notable differences. I admit i did not test all the TO weight range, and most probably the FDE we use now should not be used with MTOW loading.
As for engines acceleration, I can try to enhance the control loop a bit. it's true that with sudden attitude changes, the ATHR can have some troubles at low speeds.




2) --------- (may be important)
MCDU - F-Plan Page/ Alternate Input: (also high priority bug i guess)
If you entered an Alternate and you would like to enter an arrival route in the F-Plan Page or even in the airport page you get all arrivals from your origin destination. If you choose on the wrong arrival routes the whole software crash down and freeze.
It happens that the Fuel calculation is sometimes nonsense ( > 90 ton of fuel required).
Sometimes you get a copy of the original flight plan instead of an alternate.
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I'm working on this issue already for next release, hopefully it will be solved. Also, please note my software is probably the most accurate VNAV system out there (even compared with payware) as it does take into account temperatures and weight according to the FDE used (and not real world figures, as it would be pointless here) and also route winds. So even if it's not perfect yet, it can be accurate down to 1 minute of flight and 500kg of fuel on 1-2 hours legs.





3) ---------- (also important)
MCDU F-Plan Page/ Plan Mode ND-Display:
captain steps the waypoint up/ and down in the MCDU: The associate waypoints in the captain ND-Display don't change instead on FO-ND display you see the move of waypoints: On FO-MCDU you can see the moving of waypoint on Captains ND-display.
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I don't get this one: on the real ACFT, when in plan mode, the CPT MCDU should scroll the WPTs on the FO MCDU???





4) ----------
FCU:
Assume you are shortly before capturing the ILS but first the GP is coming and the localizer is still out of range:
Then the FCU start the decent. This is wrong because it can leads to dangerous situations. Until you don't see the localizer the A320 does not start the decent.
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Yes I will look at that.




5) ----------
FCU:
Assume we are in cruise, managed Mode (ALT). The automatic decent starts only if you passing the T/D point, but in real you always can start always the decent when you first enter a new Altitude and then press ALT Button.
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
As far as I know, you always need to push/pull the ALT button to initiate descent, it cannot be automatic upond T/D sequencing.
And I can confirm on this aspect my software does work??





6) ----------
EFIS:
Assume you are in decent above transition on STD QNH. The QNH sign flash already above transition. in real it should flash when you are below transition.
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OK. Can you describe the full logic (departure and arrival)?



7) ----------
SD-Door Page:
both (4 on A321) emergency over wing exits is the word "slide armed" missing. On all regular doors these expression comes after closing doors handle in flight position(in park position those words are disappeared. Otherwise a pilot would never fly when all doors are not armed.
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OK


8 ) ---------
FCU:
After programming a new flight plan and all corresponding data's for a a flight are set in the MCDU the initial setting for the FCU should be (you never touched any button on the FCU before)
Speed in managed Mode ( dot is on)
Lateral in managed mode ( dot is on)
Altitudes are not in managed, AP and Auto Thrust are off ( goes on when on Flex Power or TOGA)
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OK. And the FCU ALT window stays at the latest set altitude?




9) --------
Overhead/No Smoking lights:
regular procedure before TakeOff leads to illuminate the checklist "No smoking" in blue (is to check) instead in green(checked,OK).
Auto->OFF->AUTO
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't understand precisely that one?



10) ---------
SD-Display Warnings:
assume you are on ground and parking brake is set. if the wrong Flaps-setting is set you get a wrong Master Warning "Flaps are not in T/O position"
This happens only if you release the parking brake and you put the power upward (engines are running). It is independent from everything else.
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I will check, I thought the behaviour was as you describe?



11) ---------
MCDU-Performance page:
V2 < 148 is not possible to enter. 148 and higher only with almost full loading, cold temperaturs, low pressure Altitudes and long RWY valid.
if any loading changing's after we put in the V1,VR,V2 then a revised speed for V1,VR,V2 should be offered and the message "check performance page" is alerting you.
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OK


12) ---------
PFD-Displays:
assume you are on intercept for an ILS.
The Glideslope indicates an asterisk ("*") although you are not having the glide in range.
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Is that a software error or real life fact?



13) ---------
PFD-Displays:
Assume AP is on and you are in HDG Mode and the Approach Button is armed. You don't see the HDG Indication. this means a "HDG" sign over the blue LOC
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Is that a software error or real life fact?



14) ---------
ECAM TakeOff Checklist:
Item Cabin READY in green is missing.
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Ok



15) --------
PDF-Displays:
On PFD-Displays in climb the vertical speed indication does not show the "+"
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OK

16) --------
MCDU-Progress page:
Inputs like EDDF25C are not possible, only EDDF
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OK


17) --------
MCDU-Performance Page:
regular input is 1/0.1DN does not work. The DN or UP will not understand.
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OK


18 ) --------
SD / Cabin Pressurisation indication:
the Pressurisation indication is wrong.
the output valve is usually almost closed ( except in some emergency cases)
the extract valve is closed as well
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I'm working on the pressurization system as well.



20) --------
Engine Instruments:
we see a static blue line between the commanded and actual Power instead of a Trend indicator.
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Even on old CRT avionics?



21) --------
Starting engine procedure on pedestal:
we can start the engine only if you set first the ignition from Norm to Start position and then switching on the Fuel valve from Off to on.
In real you can do it also if you first switching on the fuel valve from Off to on and then put ignition to start. There is no further protection, only a checklist that telling the order. (All A320 versions so far i know)
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OK


22) --------
Flaps-Indication SD-Display:
it happens sometimes after the second TO that the Flaps showing a stupid (wrong) indication. For example Slats on full position and flaps at position 1.
Commanded flaps-position was 1 and you see it through the blue arrows. You can see the desired slats and flaps position are on position 1 but indeed they don't stopping at this position and going on such unvalid positions like 4 (slats) and 1 (flaps) . Usually the slats are extenting equally to with the flaps or are only one step back or ahead.
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I will check that


23) --------
ECAM - Fuel Page:
Fuel flow of 800 kg/h is really to much in the engine start time. it's should be only around 200 kg/h
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This is linked with FDE discussion in point 1. It's almost impossible to get the FDE accurate in all phases of flight. It's an FS limitation.



24) --------
MCDU F-Plane page:
The second flight-plan page is missing that provide further informations like EFOB and windcomponents
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Should be in next version.



Thanks for your comments. Be sure that if I have questions, I'll think of you!

JL

[Leonidas]

Thank you for your reply, Leonidas.

about item 5): you have set a flightplan with all calculations, means altitudes and speeds. The MCDU calculates a point of decent and show it in the F-Plan page and in the PFD's. If you are flying in managed mode ( dot is on) the MCDU start the decent automaticly on that point of decent ( i can't rember that was working so it's still to be tested). It's usually that the ATC give you an earlier decent (the calculated is the latest point of decent), before the calculated top of decent is reached. Then you simple turn the desired altitude into the FCU and pressing the ALT button. Now the MCDU put at this new position the top of decent and make her new calculations ( fuel, speed, time...) and updating the flight plan. You could also use the select mode (pull ALT button) but this will not update the Flight plan, so its just used for temporary changes due to traffic or wheather. In JeeHell Software i couln't decent earlier, only in select mode.

Talking about the software, not real flight: The A/C doesn't start decenting at the TOD automatically. So, I usually push ALT before the TOD and the managed decent starts as it should, but I don't notice any changes in fuel, speed, etc calculations in MCDU indeed...

[Leonidas]

Thank you for your reply, Leonidas.

About Item 21). So far i observed there is an certain order to switch on the engine.
Well, the basic conditions are, electric on, Power idle, APU bleed valve on, then you can start the engine in JeeHell only if you do this order: first Swich the ignition to start, then open the fuel valve, if you do it opposite ( first valve then iginition) it will not start the engine. In a real airplane it does, because it's will be controlled by FADEC. Nevertheless the checklist said cautionary or historicaly first inginition on then fuelvalve on as it used in all airplanes without FADEC because otherwise it could going unburned fuel into the engine and that can caused a damaged due to much fuel if the inginition is switched on.

Talking about the software, not real flight: Please retest it, because I always open the fuel valves first and then set ignition on and engines start without any problem.

[chris68]

Talking about the software, not real flight: The A/C doesn't start decenting at the TOD automatically. So, I usually push ALT before the TOD and the managed decent starts as it should, but I don't notice any changes in fuel, speed, etc calculations in MCDU indeed...

as i said, is the FCU in vertical managed mode (dot on, Alt windows is slashed) then it should start the decent automaticly and all further decends or climbs if it programmed in the f-plan page) or your initiate is by turning a new Altitude and push push the ALT button( dot also is illuminated):
--> when you pull the button that means it the selected mode (dot is off, Alt-Window shows selected altitude) and have nothing to do with the vertical path of the MCDU anymore, we only we decent (or climbing) to this assigned altitude and hold this Alt

[chris68]

Tanks JH for you effort. i hope i can give you convenient feedback. Feel free to reply.

1) -------- (I think it's an important problem)
Flight model, Engine model:
I used the iFDG A320 model in FS2004

First i found out, that the acceleration on runway is to less ( +15%)
In addition the acceleration of the engine is to less (+15%)

Very difficult it the behaviour on landing, particular with going to full flaps and lowest speed.
We assume auto-trust ON and we just set the final flaps.
The speed falling down in direction minimum speed ( the floor protection, orange range). Then the engine start the acceleration on time (before the target speed is
reached) but the acceleration is to less so under certain circumstances (high decent rate) the speed can fall under the minimum speed (far into the orange range) and
switch off the AP. This behaviour is absolute irregular. The speed must be kept on all circumstances above the minimum speed and around the target speed. The
control-loop from the FADEC is simply to slow in my opinion.
May be it's only necessary to increase the power of the engine but i think the acceleration of the engines should be faster ( 10% at least).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is a difficult topic. It's really difficult to create a reaslitic FDE, as there are not that many detailed figures available, and most FDE creators are not real A320 pilots.
As for RWY acceleration, I didn't note anything troubling here. As a real life ATC, I compared take off runs with real A320s, and there is no notable differences. I admit i did not test all the TO weight range, and most probably the FDE we use now should not be used with MTOW loading.
As for engines acceleration, I can try to enhance the control loop a bit. it's true that with sudden attitude changes, the ATHR can have some troubles at low speeds.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i flew about several hundert times from Munich airport and i can tell you on which high speed exit we usually reach the rotation speed. in the FS2004 i got it far behind (15%) although all condition was set on ISA. I thought there is a coherence between this and the lost of the AP due to enter the orange range. May be i am wrong.
By the way, i made 3 or 4 approaches and only one was not disconnecting my AP. But in all landing i was in the orange range. My Captain would be shouting if i did that in
real.

3) ---------- (also important)
MCDU F-Plan Page/ Plan Mode ND-Display:
captain steps the waypoint up/ and down in the MCDU: The associate waypoints in the captain ND-Display don't change instead on FO-ND display you see the move of
waypoints: On FO-MCDU you can see the moving of waypoint on Captains ND-display.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't get this one: on the real ACFT, when in plan mode, the CPT MCDU should scroll the WPTs on the FO MCDU???
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry for beeing not precisely. The captain MDCU steps up/down in flight page and it should be that his ND-display is rotating the selected waypoints. But in your software it does the FO-ND-Display rotating.

5) ----------
FCU:
Assume we are in cruise, managed Mode (ALT). The automatic decent starts only if you passing the T/D point, but in real you always can start always the decent when
you first enter a new Altitude and then press ALT Button.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As far as I know, you always need to push/pull the ALT button to initiate descent, it cannot be automatic upond T/D sequencing.
And I can confirm on this aspect my software does work??
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please look at my previous post.

6) ----------
EFIS:
Assume you are in decent above transition on STD QNH. The QNH sign flash already above transition. in real it should flash when you are below transition.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
OK. Can you describe the full logic (departure and arrival)?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The flashing indicate that you may be set the wrong QNH. Above transition you set you STD, if not it's flashing. In decent it's flash also if you come below transition and you are still in STD. In your software it'S flasing someware above transition and you had a STD setting.

8 ) ---------
FCU:
After programming a new flight plan and all corresponding data's for a a flight are set in the MCDU the initial setting for the FCU should be (you never touched any
button on the FCU before)
Speed in managed Mode ( dot is on)
Lateral in managed mode ( dot is on)
Altitudes are not in managed, AP and Auto Thrust are off ( goes on when on Flex Power or TOGA)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
OK. And the FCU ALT window stays at the latest set altitude?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Altitude will be set on the first Altitude step on the actual departure route (clearance limit). See also index 5).

9) --------
Overhead/No Smoking lights:
regular procedure before TakeOff leads to illuminate the checklist "No smoking" in blue (is to check) instead in green(checked,OK).
Auto->OFF->AUTO
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't understand precisely that one?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In real we do make this check with the "No Smoking sign": Auto->OFF->AUTO. After that the ECAM checklist has a green(checked,OK) line but in your software it's in blue (is to check)

10) ---------
SD-Display Warnings:
assume you are on ground and parking brake is set. if the wrong Flaps-setting is set you get a wrong Master Warning "Flaps are not in T/O position"
This happens only if you release the parking brake and you put the power upward (engines are running). It is independent from everything else.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I will check, I thought the behaviour was as you describe?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I get the warning in your software although the conditions are not fulfilled for takeoff (parking brake was set)

12) ---------
PFD-Displays:
assume you are on intercept for an ILS.
The Glideslope indicates an asterisk ("*") although you are not having the glide in range.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Is that a software error or real life fact?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Your software show me the asterics far before i can't see the glide. Only if the glide in range the asteriks is visible until the airplane is established on the glide

13) ---------
PFD-Displays:
Assume AP is on and you are in HDG Mode and the Approach Button is armed. You don't see the HDG Indication. this means a "HDG" sign over the blue LOC
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Is that a software error or real life fact?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In read aircraft you see HDG" sign over the blue LOC

20) --------
Engine Instruments:
we see a static blue line between the commanded and actual Power instead of a Trend indicator.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Even on old CRT avionics?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't know about the old 320-100 with CRT but the 200 does always show a trend and not a steady blue indicator.

-----
i can offer an FCOM A320 from our company ( 3500 pages)

Chris

[Leonidas]

................
I don't know about the old 320-100 with CRT but the 200 does always show a trend and not a stady blue indicator.
................

Please JeeHell... make the new style E/WD be the next big update. It would be perfect!

[Airmichel]

Hi JL,

Thanks for the great new Version!

I have switched to the new Version B26 and have the following Problem. In both ND displays will only display "MAP NOT AVAIL HDG / GPS PRIMARY LOST".I don`t see any flight route. Each ND is on another PC (Dual core 3 GHz). I use the original Navdata from Version B26. Do you have an idea where that comes from?

The second Problem is, when I start and press the AP1 Button, the plane climbs too strong (6000 ft/min and more) and the speed goes to A-floor.

Greetings Micha