FSX - 737 - PM - Waypoints

[Ray Proudfoot]

Hi Jonathan,

I can't really comment on the route imports from third party planners or even the FS plans because there could easily be data miss-match occuring which will cause the CDU to fail or simply not function correctly as we have seen re the general route following.

But the option to load the last plan saved in FS exists and we know that works okay in FS9. I think it's only fair to FSX users that some investigation is undertaken to determine why that route is not flown as well as in FS9. Could it be down to the small differences in mag var? How long would it take to investigate and make recommendations based on your findings? Is this something only Enrico can do or do you have access to the source code too?

I do not know what the solution is for this, I doubt I can generate much interest in getting one because as far as I know, we maintain you should build and save the route using the CDU if you want to be 100% sure of it. This is the way I see the CDU used in the pro sector and the way I do it. I don't want to be negative, but I just feel any other way is always going to be prone to problems... it is a pity because of course I see the advantage of using a planner, especially what Pete uses, but that is the way things currently are I think.

I agree that plans should be created using the CDU but if the file format used by the CDU can be determined then external software should be able to create plans equally as accurate. Clearly there are small differences which is why Pete also has this problem with his plans. We've already made progress on identifying what type of plans the CDU doesn't like but not why it doesn't like them. Would it take Enrico long to work out why? He can be provided with examples by Pete.

The airway function should of course work, if you could give me a procedure I can try that again (it was okay here) so perhaps there is a sequencing error - we make one step different or something. In which case as soon as I have a clear way to recreate I will sort it out re the error.

Did the EGCC-EIDW plan I gave you earlier work okay when you entered it manually? Just to check this you should enter EGCC/Rwy 23R as the departure point and then choose the WAL1R SID.

If you then press the LSK to display the available airways from WAL it caused the CDU to crash with error 55 - file already open. There are several jet routes available from WAL so it has to work.

I've only returned to FSX to help with this problem. FS9 is my preferred sim at present and doesn't suffer with this turning-in problem. I think your many FSX users would appreciate an investigation into whether this problem can be fixed.

Maybe a survey would help showing how many people fly which sim and how they get their plans into the CDU? That would show you the size of the problem and whether a fix is realistic.

What I fail to understand is if a series of waypoints is manually entered in the CDU and the same waypoints are selected in external software and supplied to the CDU why would it process the two sets differently. I would hope your curiosity would get the better of you and you would want to know why.

Cheers.

[JonathanRichardson]

Hi Ray

The runtime error we must look at, thanks for pointing that out.

You don't have any of these errors in FS9 when using the same route, and same airway? Do you do anything different? I wonder if it is something to do with the airway now regardless of FS9 or FSX.

All the other questions / answers I think too much to go through re what we can or will not allocate time for - the aim was only to see if magvar had been fixed, which it has. The error is possibly coming from something else which no doubt still needs further consideration and of course with respect to the external planners of course. One step at a time though...

Regards
Jonathan

[Ray Proudfoot]

Hi Ray

The runtime error we must look at, thanks for pointing that out.

You don't have any of these errors in FS9 when using the same route, and same airway? Do you do anything different? I wonder if it is something to do with the airway now regardless of FS9 or FSX.

I do get them whether I use FS9 or FSX. Sorry if I didn't make that clear. That's why I now plan everything using FSNavigator, export it as a FS plan, save it again in FS9 and then load that PLN using the CDU facility. I grew frustrated at the run-time errors but didn't report them as I assumed they were related to possible bad data in Navigraph's AIRAC files. Perhaps that is not the case?

I'll find some more for you and create a new message thread as it's a different problem to what we're discussing here.

All the other questions / answers I think too much to go through re what we can or will not allocate time for - the aim was only to see if magvar had been fixed, which it has. The error is possibly coming from something else which no doubt still needs further consideration and of course with respect to the external planners of course. One step at a time though...

Okay, I'm happy for you to consider your options on that one. At least people have a workaround for now.

Thinking more about the run-time 55 problem could it be caused by me pressing the LSK a second time? The first time I press it I would expect the available jet routes to show almost immediately but they don't. So when I press the key a second time it's perhaps trying to open a file that's already open - hence the error. But why aren't the jet routes being displayed with the intitial press?

[JonathanRichardson]

>That's why I now plan everything using FSNavigator, export it as a FS plan, save it again in FS9 and then load that PLN using the CDU facility.

Hi Ray

I would personally never trust anything like that process myself. But I understand the reason why due to the runtime error.

>I grew frustrated at the run-time errors but didn't report them as I assumed they were related to possible bad data in Navigraph's AIRAC files. Perhaps that is not the case?

Best is always to report them, a runtime error with sequence to create can be sorted quickly normally.

>Okay, I'm happy for you to consider your options on that one. At least people have a workaround for now.

The runtime error must be corrected once we see it. But the normal programming of CDU routes is not a workaround. It in general works. At this stage I would not advise thrid party planners myself. Actually I never saw the offtrack errors in FS9 or FSX even prior to the mag var change.... but it seems the one thing Enrico and I do not do is use any plan created by something else.... have to look into this more when there is time.

Regards
Jonathan Richardson
Project Magenta

[Ray Proudfoot]

>That's why I now plan everything using FSNavigator, export it as a FS plan, save it again in FS9 and then load that PLN using the CDU facility.

Hi Ray

I would personally never trust anything like that process myself. But I understand the reason why due to the runtime error.

It was a case of needs must. I would much prefer to do it as the pros do.

>I grew frustrated at the run-time errors but didn't report them as I assumed they were related to possible bad data in Navigraph's AIRAC files. Perhaps that is not the case?

Best is always to report them, a runtime error with sequence to create can be sorted quickly normally.

I've raised this in the CDU sub-section.

The runtime error must be corrected once we see it.

I've given another example of the error in the new thread.

But the normal programming of CDU routes is not a workaround. It in general works. At this stage I would not advise thrid party planners myself. Actually I never saw the offtrack errors in FS9 or FSX even prior to the mag var change.... but it seems the one thing Enrico and I do not do is use any plan created by something else.... have to look into this more when there is time.

By workaround I meant the manual insertion of waypoints rather than using jet routes which is problematical (for me at least).

I'm sure many including Pete would like a solution to the extenally created plans problem.

[JonathanRichardson]

It was a case of needs must. I would much prefer to do it as the pros do.

Hi Ray

I can not create this error - there appears to be no problem, I am certain given how many flight I do per week in here, I would have seen it already. But I wanted to check to be sure. I think you have some file access restriction or something on your system.

>I've raised this in the CDU sub-section.

As you know we don't monitor the forum usually, certainly I would never have time to work my way through all these threads and sub threads - it is terribly time consuming and not a good way for us.

> I've given another example of the error in the new thread.

I will check it this once - just to be sure!

>I'm sure many including Pete would like a solution to the extenally created plans problem.

I am sure.

Regards
Jonathan Richardson
Project Magenta