How does PM behave with default FSX Autopilot?

[737aqua]

>No, I am not saying that! Where do you read that?

It seems to work pretty well with the default 737-800, but I have better & smoother results all round with the PMDG models, air and CFG files (as modified a while back by Thomas), using the appropriate 737 files in PM.

I don't know why I bothered trying to explain anything. You seem to have misread just about everything I wrote! <<<

>>>From your illustration it looks like either you only have one throttle lever and have not selected both throttles (E + 1 + 2, or use the FSUIPC shortcut key), or you have set the (unrealistic, I think?) PM option for A/T control during descent >>>

You didn't say it directly, but from all the other posts I've read talking about how VNAV and A/T isn't functioning like the real world makes me question it. Also why would there be a desire to make a new A/P by Enrico if the current situation was optimal. This is why I am assuming that the A/T system and VNAV isn't as accurate as it could be.

You also seem to allude yourself to a problem above -- you say above that having PM control the AT during decent is un-realistic.. That is not an unrealistic thing to ask a proper autpilot to do on the real aircraft. If it can't handle A/T properly on decent, its not behaving properly. Can you explain why it isn't realistic to expect VNAV to use the A/T properly or is this just a flaw in the system?

Thanks
Aqua

[Peter Dowson]

Also why would there be a desire to make a new A/P by Enrico if the current situation was optimal.

"Optimal"? Who said anything about "optimal"? What exactly does "optimal" mean in such a context? "The best overall for the number of different aircraft models it has to cope with and without stopping work on everything else for months" -- that sort of "optimal"? If that's what you mean, it is optimal. If you mean "perfect" then no, of course it isn't perfect!

This is why I am assuming that the A/T system and VNAV isn't as accurate as it could be.

Of course you can assume that it is "not as accurate as it could be". But that is a far cry from your statements that is does "not maintain speed properly" and "It really doesn't work well at all?", statements you were trying to make out I'd said or implied! PM's A/P is a lot better than FS's alone, but it isn't perfect. No one said it was. but it's about as good as it gets unless you employ several experts for many months perfecting the performance on one or two specific models, which is what PMDG have done.

You also seem to allude yourself to a problem above -- you say above that having PM control the AT during decent is un-realistic.. That is not an unrealistic thing to ask a proper autpilot to do on the real aircraft. If it can't handle A/T properly on decent, its not behaving properly.

I'm sorry, maybe I don't know everything like you, but I thought the descent wasn't under auto-throttle control in any case, that the throttles were retarded and left at idle unless the pilot intervened. This is for Boeing, I've no idea for Airbus.

Also, there's no realistic throttle control without motorised throttles. The pilot's movement of the thrust levers effectively overrides the A/T, as it does in FS. If the A/T cannot move the levers to idle for descent, you have to.

Can you explain why it isn't realistic to expect VNAV to use the A/T properly or is this just a flaw in the system?

I can only explain what I understand, and that is for Boeing aircraft. You explain what you know. If I am wrong, I apologise, but none of this is at all in any way related to PM's autopilot or its performance. I was only questioning the problem of the throttle quadrant lever position oddity, reported by someone else, and actually nothing whatsoever to do with your A/P complaints!

Anyway, you think what you think. Sorry, but I've got no more time to argue. But don't try to put words in my mouth, please. Read what I say and don't misquote me, that's all I ask.

Pete

[737aqua]

Wow, you don't need to get so Pissed-off..what are you, grumpy or something?

Yes, I'm sorry, but for the price of PM software I DO expect that the people there to be spending hours to perfect the A/P. It is an integral part of the airliner system, and if its not right, its not worth building an expensive cockpit around IMO. If PMDG can do it, PM can do it given for 1 or 2 flight models...I mean, they charge like 6x or more the price of PMDG.

Remind me next time not to "bother" you, Mr. Grumpy.

"Optimal"? Who said anything about "optimal"? What exactly does "optimal" mean in such a context? "The best overall for the number of different aircraft models it has to cope with and without stopping work on everything else for months" -- that sort of "optimal"? If that's what you mean, it is optimal. If you mean "perfect" then no, of course it isn't perfect!

Of course you can assume that it is "not as accurate as it could be". But that is a far cry from your statements that is does "not maintain speed properly" and "It really doesn't work well at all?", statements you were trying to make out I'd said or implied! PM's A/P is a lot better than FS's alone, but it isn't perfect. No one said it was. but it's about as good as it gets unless you employ several experts for many months perfecting the performance on one or two specific models, which is what PMDG have done.

I'm sorry, maybe I don't know everything like you, but I thought the descent wasn't under auto-throttle control in any case, that the throttles were retarded and left at idle unless the pilot intervened. This is for Boeing, I've no idea for Airbus.

Also, there's no realistic throttle control without motorised throttles. The pilot's movement of the thrust levers effectively overrides the A/T, as it does in FS. If the A/T cannot move the levers to idle for descent, you have to.



I can only explain what I understand, and that is for Boeing aircraft. You explain what you know. If I am wrong, I apologise, but none of this is at all in any way related to PM's autopilot or its performance. I was only questioning the problem of the throttle quadrant lever position oddity, reported by someone else, and actually nothing whatsoever to do with your A/P complaints!

Anyway, you think what you think. Sorry, but I've got no more time to argue. But don't try to put words in my mouth, please. Read what I say and don't misquote me, that's all I ask.

Pete

[Bob Reed]

I don't know what your point is here Aqua, but PM does NOT use the Flight Sim stock Auto Pilot. End of conversation. PM is not perfect but gets better all the time. Didn't I wrote that already? As far as the professional version, there is no pro version PM is PM. You have a hobbyists license or a professional license. The 737 software is the furthest along for being real then the rest because it has more professional clients using that software. The auto throttle only works 100% if you have motorized working throttles or else on decent you have to pull the throttles back to idle. Do you even know how VNav works? It controls the speed of the aircraft by changing the pitch + or_ to hold the commanded speed. And like Peter said, if you already know the answers to the questions you are asking, (which you seem to think you do) then why ask them? Yes PM is high $$ but there is nothing even close to it on the market. Not to mention free updates for life and some of the best support you will ever find for software.

[737aqua]

Fine, I accept your explanation as valid, I'm just attempting to get the full picture here before commiting. I'm sorry, but I think as a newbie i've been reading the wrong material and quite a bit of misinformation. So I am sorry if I am off here. I feel offended and incredibly betrayed by the harsh mean tone of Peters Last post...Can't people make mistakes here, or is it a sin or something...

[Bob Reed]

Peter is Peter. He does not mean anything by that. Go look at his forum that is just how he talks on the internet. Very straight forward no monkeying around. He means nothing personal. But no one likes what they said twisted! Let me ask you, have you tried the demos for PM? I have been using PM for years and will use nothing else. Yes I am building the 737 which is by far there best software that PM does, so I can not talk for the 747,777 and Airbus software and I will not try. It is very hard to tell you how it works, it needs to bee seen. The software is expensive there is no doubt about that, but what in this hobby is not? Is it worth the dollars.... Well that is a personal thing but I would have to say yes as my cockpit would not exist without it! Only VERY recently has there been any other way to do a cockpit and that is with PMDG and a couple of other AC. There are very large restrictions on what you can do with this type of cockpit and would not be willing to do that, even now! So it comes to where you have to ask yourself, what do you want to do with your cockpit? Are you willing to accept the restrictions with using a all in one software like PMDG? I own PMDG and a few others, none of them are any where close to where PM's auto pilot (for the 737) is! And yes that is my opinion much like most everything else in this hobby is.... Just one's opinion!

[Peter Dowson]

Remind me next time not to "bother" you, Mr. Grumpy.

You are entitled to your opinions, you don't need to believe other people of course, but please don't put words into their mouths.

Pete

[737aqua]

Ok, sorry i didn't mean that, I just misinterpreted you.

[michelmvd]

Hi Bob,

I, but PM does NOT use the Flight Sim stock Auto Pilot. End of conversation. .

I think it is not a good idea to start crying to each other. This will not bring anyone any further and newbies will be very afraid to ask something.
I think only with a good teamspirit you can have good results.
Bob you said that PM is not using FS A/P, but Peter was very clear in his message and said the reverse and explained in details how it is used and trimmed by PM.
As you use the PM one, I suppose you activated the PM A/P somewhere. Can you let me know where it can be done this days, as you also said there are no different versions, so I assume we are using the same software (only different types). I would like to try it out and eventually try to tune the airfile.

Just like to check that A/P, certainly after Jonanthan said there are no plans to developpe a new one in the near futur.

Thanks for your kind collaboration

Michel

[Bob Reed]

Hi Michel. Well as far as PM using FS's AP I think I went a little far, yes it does use the root of the FS auto pilot, but you have to remember I have used nothing but PM's auto pilot for years so to me there is no FS AP. Now the way PM uses the stock AP is nothing like how the stock ap operates, the software (PM) adds a ton of stuff to make the aircraft fly as expected with the AP so in essence PM is not using the stock AP as FS does! It is using the stock FS auto pilot as modified by the PM software. Now where do you change it? Do you mean the MCP from 747 to 737 ext.? That is in the MCP menu. Michel I am not using the AP that was known as the Beta in the ini form the MCP. I think this is what Jonathan was talking about.