Engravity CDU with PMDG - PM needed?

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05-25-2009, 11:04 AM
Tai-Pan

Engravity CDU with PMDG - PM needed?

The Engravity CDU used to need a licence from PMDG to work with their 737. Since PMDG isn't supplying that license anymore (at least...not as far that I know of)...it it then mandatory to have PM up and running to use the CDU?

I also asked PMDG about their 737NGX support with external hardware like CDU's, MCP's and so on. They tell me they're gonna release a SDK. Does that mean that with the Engravity CDU for the current 737NG, it can also be used with the upcoming NGX?

Not an owner of the Engravity myself..can someone shed some light on the connection the CDU uses? Is it only USB? Or does it also needs to connect to a DVI/DSUB on my videocard?

Thanks!
05-25-2009, 04:12 PM
dnoize

Hi,

it only needs the USB. You DONT need a VGA or tv out or anything like that. All data for the lcd is supplied via USB.

The CDU also works with the PMDG 747X (driver supplied by www.flightsimlabs.com).

Next to that it is compatible with:

* Level-D 767 (for both fs9 and fsx)
* Project Magenta
* Flightdecksoftware
* Sim-avionics
* Aerowinx precision simulator.

I havent seen the pmdg SDK yet, but in the (now gone) avsim forum they had promised future support.

Stef
05-26-2009, 03:07 AM
Tai-Pan

Hi Stef,

Thanks for your reply. I've check out the flightsimlabs site. They support under FSX only I see. However...it's the 747...I'd like to fly the MD-11 for now and the upcoming 737NGX when available.

I reckon from your reply that I must have either a PMDG license file or PM eg...I DO need something to make the CDU interact right? And since PMDG doesn't supply the license anymore, I have one option left to let the CDU work with the PMDG 737 being: PM. Correct?

Any thought if the CDU will work with the PMDG MD-11?

Now..if only I could find a 2nd hand CDU for not too much $$ :D

Thx

Eric
05-26-2009, 05:16 AM
dnoize

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tai-Pan

Hi Stef,

Thanks for your reply. I've check out the flightsimlabs site. They support under FSX only I see. However...it's the 747...

Thats what i said: 747X

Quote:

I reckon from your reply that I must have either a PMDG license file or PM eg...I DO need something to make the CDU interact right? And since PMDG doesn't supply the license anymore, I have one option left to let the CDU work with the PMDG 737 being: PM. Correct?

The cdu itself is merely a terminal (just like a real cdu) FMC logics have to come from the add ons. Not neccesairily PM. For the 737 you can also use Flightdecksoftware or Sim-Avionics.

However, when you will use any of these solutions, THESE will suplly all logics. This means you have to rip all logics/panels out of the pmdg 737 and merely use it for the flight model.

2 different concepts you are talking about.

Although Ian, gwyn and others made great home sims based on the pmdg software, the fact remains that the PMDG software is meant as desktop software and PM, FlightdeckSoftware en Sim-avionics are meant to build hardware interfaced sims.

Quote:

Any thought if the CDU will work with the PMDG MD-11?

Technically possible ? YES

Will it ever happen ? Dont know. Is up to PMDG.

We never had enough requests to justify investments in the correct keypad yet. If demand is there we will make a md11 keypad.

stef

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05-26-2009, 05:41 AM
Tai-Pan

Quote:

Originally Posted by dnoize

Thats what i said: 747X
However, when you will use any of these solutions, THESE will suplly all logics. This means you have to rip all logics/panels out of the pmdg 737 and merely use it for the flight model.

.

Thx. Can you enlighten me in how I should read this sentence?? "rip out" as meaning disabling it somewhere in the PMDG files so it won't interact with the other solution (flightdeck, sim-avionics)?

Is there any advice in what solution may be the better one, keeping in mind that at this moment I'm primairly interested in the CDU functionality (with the Engravity CDU).

Eric
05-26-2009, 07:18 AM
dnoize

You need to delete the panels in pmdg. There are also mods to be found on the updates page from project magenta.

Please note that mcp, cdu and glass displays closely work together. So you can not use "just" the PM cdu with the pmdg mcp/glass.

Its either all pmdg or either all PM/flightdecksoftware/simavionics/etc.

Stef

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05-26-2009, 07:28 AM
Tai-Pan

Quote:

Originally Posted by dnoize

You need to delete the panels in pmdg. There are also mods to be found on the updates page from project magenta.

Please note that mcp, cdu and glass displays closely work together. So you can not use "just" the PM cdu with the pmdg mcp/glass.

Its either all pmdg or either all PM/flightdecksoftware/simavionics/etc.

Stef

.

Hmm...so using only the CDU with PM/Flightdeck/whatever and keep the rest default PMDG on my tft won't work then? Just asking since I'm only just starting to get more "out of the SIM' hardware. Have the VRInsight MCP combo, and wanted a CDU for a long time, but...don't want to buy it and not being able to use it.
05-26-2009, 09:09 AM
dnoize

Thats correct. This is NOT possible.

The PM cdu will NOT plot a route on your PMDG ND or command the PMDG MCP or vice versa.

In fact the seperate systems will be fighting eachother.

Stef
05-26-2009, 09:24 AM
Tai-Pan

Quote:

Originally Posted by dnoize

Thats correct. This is NOT possible.

The PM cdu will NOT plot a route on your PMDG ND or command the PMDG MCP or vice versa.

In fact the seperate systems will be fighting eachother.

Stef

Darn...in that case I'm stopped dead in my tracks :mad: I was really hoping adding a CDU to my setup so I could use an external CDU instead of the one in the SIM.
Is there any other way to accomplish that?

Edit:
Still...I don't understand why the information is not complete then. If I read at Engravity's site they state:

The CDU/FMS is complete plug and play.

There is no need to wire, solder, build or program anything yourself.

It works as the real one and it communicates directly to your computer. All functions are available to plan your flight as if it was real.

The hard keys have been made of injection molded high quality material with laser etched inscriptions. Full backlight is available and can be adjusted by the build in potentiometer. The unit comes with a built in backlighted 5" LCD display. The LCD display don't need a graphics card output, since everything works with a USB connection.

The unit can be build in your setup or can be used as a stand alone.

Electronics are protected in a strong housing. The unit works with a USB connecting and comes with a 12V adapter and driver software.
Except for the project magenta software everything is included to make your flightexperience better then it ever was before.

When reading that, I'm thinking "ok, so it connects to my plane and I can use it to enter my CDU data without having to do it from within my sim". But from what you're telling me, it doesn't work that way.

Is the OpenCockpit an alternative then??
05-26-2009, 03:20 PM
dnoize

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tai-Pan

It works as the real one and it communicates directly to your computer. All functions are available to plan your flight as if it was real.

When reading that, I'm thinking "ok, so it connects to my plane and I can use it to enter my CDU data without having to do it from within my sim". But from what you're telling me, it doesn't work that way.

Is the OpenCockpit an alternative then??

What exactly isnt clear ?

Like a real cdu in a real aircraft the engravity cdu does not contain any logics.

In the real aircraft all logics are in the fmc/fms and the cdu is merely a terminal displaying what the fmc is telling it to display.

With the engravity cdu its exactly the same. The cdu is a terminal and its displaying the fmc logics from your add on (i.e. project magenta, flightdecksoftware, sim-avionics, aerowinx precision simulator, pmdg and level-d).

FS(x) itself does not have any fmc logics. Without any of these add-ons the cdu is useless.

The engravity cdu is the only cdu that is capable of directly communication with the pmdg 737 and 747 for fs9.

Unfortunately pmdg stopped retailing the driver because of a conflict about the intelectual property with flightsimlabs. So unless you can find a second hand cdu WITH a valid pmdg licence key, that is a dead end road. (btw, i dont have a clue about the legal status of a second hand key licence. best check that with pmdg).

The driver for the pmdg 747 for fsx is still available via flightsimlabs.

I hope the cdu will be compatible with the 737 NGX (pmdg has promised this in the past) but for now the ngx has not been released yet. Nor have any screenshots been released as they allways did with future aircraft, so to be honest, i would not expect the ngx before summer.

The opencockpits cdu (or any other for that matter) cant be used well with the pmdg because its merely a keyboard interface. pressing the <g> key on your cdu would lower the gear in fs. so you would constantly have to switch between keyboard mode and cdu mode within fs.

Maybe its an option for you to check flightdecksoftware ? If you dont need a full suite you can start with the 'pilot'version you have captains side glass, mcp, efis and cdu software for 199 euro's.
sim-avionics offers something similar

Stef

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05-27-2009, 12:50 AM
Tai-Pan

thx! That's the most clear answer someone has given about the FMC :D

So...let's see if I finally understood haha :) :

The SIM can't communicate with the CDU/FMC without some form of intermediair like PM, PMDG's licensefile or Flightdeck. When neglacting that information one would buy a CDU/FMC, hook it up just to find out it won't do the thing you wanted 'cause of the lacking "logics" needed to let the CDU interact with the sim.
You'd end up with a expensive piece of hardware.

So...If I'd buy a CDU and want it to interact with any PMDG (proferably the MD-11 now and the NGX later) I'd need to buy the interfacing software/logics. That can be PM, Flightdeck and the rest of the list you posted yesterday.

Question is: when I have the MD-11 (or NGX later) and also have the Flightdeck software or PM, will a CDU work without having a MCP?
e.g. SIM <-> Logics (Flightdeck/PM) <-> CDU
If the answer is Yes, then I'd need to get myself the logics software, then a CDU and I'm good to go? And later add a decent MCP and so on.

The Engravity is able to communicate with the PMDG 737-747, but...for the 737 there's a license file needed which isn't supplied anymore. Hope is then that PMDG is indeed gonna release a SDK in the near future.

Concerning that SDK. PMDG sent me this
quote:
With the PMDG 737NG2.0, we will be providing hardware developers with an SDK that will allow them to develop drivers to make their hardware compatible with the software.

We do not intent to create these interfaces, as they are not our core business, but we will make it possible for the hardware manufacturers to do so themselves.

regards,

Eric
05-27-2009, 02:26 AM
dnoize

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tai-Pan

The SIM can't communicate with the CDU/FMC without some form of intermediair like PM, PMDG's licensefile or Flightdeck. When neglacting that information one would buy a CDU/FMC, hook it up just to find out it won't do the thing you wanted 'cause of the lacking "logics" needed to let the CDU interact with the sim.
You'd end up with a expensive piece of hardware.

Thats correct.

Quote:

So...If I'd buy a CDU and want it to interact with any PMDG (proferably the MD-11 now and the NGX later) I'd need to buy the interfacing software/logics. That can be PM, Flightdeck and the rest of the list you posted yesterday.

Please note that he md11 has quite different logics ! There is no add on glass cockpit logics for the md11 available that i know of.

pm = boeing 737, 747, 757/767 or airbus
flightdecksoftware= 737
sim-avionics = 777 and 737
aerowinx PS = 747/400

So no MD11.

I dont know if the MD11 has an sdk ?

Maybe you can contact flightsim labs ? Flightsimlabs is the author of the driver for the pmdg 747/400 X for fsx.

Flightsimlabs founder Lefteris is also the original lead developer of the pmdg 737 range and the original author of the pmdg cdu driver.

Maybe they are interested in developing a md11 cdu driver for the engravity cdu.

Please note that the md11 has a different keypad ! So far i received only 2 inquries for a MD11 cd, and thats not enough to justify investment to have a seperate keypad made (which has to be done in x100 volumes)

Quote:

Question is: when I have the MD-11 (or NGX later) and also have the Flightdeck software or PM, will a CDU work without having a MCP?
e.g. SIM <-> Logics (Flightdeck/PM) <-> CDU
If the answer is Yes, then I'd need to get myself the logics software, then a CDU and I'm good to go? And later add a decent MCP and so on.

The cdu commands the MCP. So yes you would need a mcp too from the same software supplier. like a said all logics either from pmdg, pm, flightdecksoftware or another, etc. They cant mix.

If your question is if you would need a hardware mcp, then no. Although a hardware mcp would be higher on my priority list than a cdu. But thats a matter of personal preference.

Quote:

The Engravity is able to communicate with the PMDG 737-747, but...for the 737 there's a license file needed which isn't supplied anymore. Hope is then that PMDG is indeed gonna release a SDK in the near future.

Thats correct. Right now only the driver for the pmdg 747/400X is retailing.

Quote:

Concerning that SDK. PMDG sent me this
quote:
With the PMDG 737NG2.0, we will be providing hardware developers with an SDK that will allow them to develop drivers to make their hardware compatible with the software.

We do not intent to create these interfaces, as they are not our core business, but we will make it possible for the hardware manufacturers to do so themselves.

We dont make software ourselves either.

We would most likely contact Flightsimlabs to do so as developing hardware drivers is their core business and we have a very good relationship with them.

Stef

.
05-27-2009, 03:30 AM
Tai-Pan

Quote:

Originally Posted by dnoize

Please note that he md11 has quite different logics ! There is no add on glass cockpit logics for the md11 available that i know of.

pm = boeing 737, 747, 757/767 or airbus
flightdecksoftware= 737
sim-avionics = 777 and 737
aerowinx PS = 747/400

So no MD11.

I dont know if the MD11 has an sdk ?

No, according to PMDG they're only releasing a SDK for the NGX as far is I know of.
So your warning about the MD-11 is heard. I'm flying the MD-11 'cause it's the best cockpit thus far and will discard it when the NGX is ready ;)

Quote:

The cdu commands the MCP. So yes you would need a mcp too from the same software supplier. like a said all logics either from pmdg, pm, flightdecksoftware or another, etc. They cant mix.

If your question is if you would need a hardware mcp, then no. Although a hardware mcp would be higher on my priority list than a cdu. But thats a matter of personal preference.

I have a VRInsight MCP combo that works via FSUIPC.
However...it should then still work right?
Control the MCP via the VRinsight (until the time I'll buy a proper MCP) and control an external CDU via PM/Flightdeck.

I do have to take into account when replacing the MCP combo that I choose a piece of hardware that will interact with the logic I'm gonna choose for the CDU.

I was quietly thinking of going for the flightdeck logics and connect an OpenCockpit CDU/FMC and a bit later their OC MCP v2. In that case I comply with what you said: make sure the hardware that interacts uses only 1 logics software, in this case Flightdeck.