Throttle Control Alternative for Phidgets

Hello Fellow Cockpit builders,

Like all of you FS2phidget users I am sadden by the news of Alans departure from his fantastic FS2Phidget project. His program has made my cockpit come alive and i am very greatful for it.

In the interim I had been working on a dedicated Application to control my throttles. In particular to take advantage of some of the new properties Phidgets have made available. I did not want to burden Alan with my requests so I would thought i would give it a crack myself.

I have written a program called AutoThrottle X, which drives my Throttle Servos.

While the program has been writen for phidgets it is limited to the ServoCard and the moment and will never be a full replacement for the fantastic fs2phidget.

It is programmed to power the servos only when the A/T switch is ARMed and it also detects when the throttles are in a stopped position and then disengages them to reduce the wear on the servo.

This setup removes the requirement for a relay card to cut power to the servos which is great.

At the moment it is very limited in what it works with, but since this community has given me so much, i am happy to share it around if someone would like.

I still need to clean it up quite a bit, but in its first revision it will be limited to a 737 tested in FSX and only work with the default FS autopilot arm switch...

Ive attached a video so you can all see the progress..

http://www.sendspace.com/file/zf8vnc

It shows the application talking via FSUIPC and the commanding of the throttle remotely and the result on the physical throttles. You can also see me move the throttle by hand without cutting power to the servo.

Cheers from Sydney, Australia

Diego

Hi Diego,

Looks like we are mentally connected are something like that...

Actually I was working this weekend on the same piece of software, just like you engage and disengage the servos so that no relais are necessary, and still be able to move the levers when AutoThrottle is off.

It is currently working for 1 lever (servo).

I'm leaving this week on holidays, so finishing will be when I come back.



Regards, Wendy

Hi Wendy,

There you go. Thats great news. I have the throttles succesfully tracking the flight simulator autothrottles at the moment.

I was working on a piece to auto calibrate the throttles, by sensing voltage and the stop state of the servos with varied success. Let me know how you go with your project.

After i have the throttles working, ill be looking at getting the Trim wheels working with the Phidget HC motor card, so i can provide varying levels of acceleration to the trim wheel.

Regards

Diego

Hi Diego,

Autoconfiguration is indeed a nice feature. I think I'll stay with manual configuration.

I was also planning to incorporate the trim indicator because recent Phidget cards have 8 motors. Still have to do the tests.

Mine is currently also moving the throttles under Autothrottle control.

What language are you writing in ? I'm using Delphi.


Regards, Wendy

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by diegov

It is programmed to power the servos only when the A/T switch is ARMed and it also detects when the throttles are in a stopped position and then disengages them to reduce the wear on the servo.

This setup removes the requirement for a relay card to cut power to the servos which is great.

---

Hello Diego,

This functionality is great, and eliminating the relay card would be very nice, but only if you can also add the other variables in this picture. By that I mean that the A/T switch by itself does nothing special except arm the throttle so that they are ready to be controlled when one of the speed modes is selected.

If you just arm the A/T, you should also be able to move the throttles manually until you are ready to actually engage the A/T by selecting one of the speed modes. So I'm pretty sure you need some other logic in there to do that.

So if you can combine your software with the logic functionality available with Phidgets, or by adding that to your own program somehow, you would have solved this vexing A/T problem once & for all :-). And this could also be very useful for the spoiler deployment. ;)

Maurice

Hi Maurice,

In my case, activating the AutoThrottle without N1 or the Speed button active does nothing at all. The levers start to move with AutoThrottle active and N1 or the Speed button pressed. That is for the default 737NG FSX.

When autothrottle is active together with for example N1 active and you switch of AutoThrottle then N1 becomes inactive as well. So I think it does the job correct.

Of course I can only speak for the utility I am programming so I let Diego respond for himself.


Regards, Wendy

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wendy

Hi Maurice,

In my case, activating the AutoThrottle without N1 or the Speed button active does nothing at all. The levers start to move with AutoThrottle active and N1 or the Speed button pressed. That is for the default 737NG FSX.

---

Hi Wendy,

That's great & did you incorporate the VNAV function as well in your logic (A/T controlled by VNAV) ?

Thanks,
Maurice

Maurice,

Well I have to correct my previous post. Just tested in my setup and it seems that when autothrottle is engaged, without N1 or Speed active, that you cannot move the levers manually.

So I think you're right and need to implement the N1 and Speed buttons. Not sure for the moment which variables that are in FSUIPC.


Regards, Wendy

@Wendy,

Im currently using c++ builder, but am thinking of porting it to MS Visual C++ after i finish my first version. The code currently looks like spaghetti and it will give me a chance to clean it up during the rewrite.

@Maurice

My setup is only setup for A/T arm at the moment.. Setting it to power when A/T and Speed are selecting should be easy enough to do. Out of curiousity, is the the real behaviour of a 737?

As for N1, i believe there is no FSUIPC offset for this. The best I can probably do is have the logic look at TOGA...

Im just in the final stages of finalising the autocalibrate routine and also some save setting routine.. Once that is done i will look at the the ARM/SPEED/N1 logic and report back.

Cheers

Diego

Guy's,

Just to mention that all is possible with OpenCockpits cards and software.
You know it, but couldn't resist to mention it.

An extensive example of "ready to use code ..:-)" for even different aircraft (!) is already here:

*****
http://www.simhard.eu.tt/

*****

Hessel

Maurice,

I need to correct my previous post. FSX does have an N1 offset. Logic now is so servos are powered when A/T is armed AND N1 hold or SPEED hold or TOGA is active.

Cheers
Diego

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by diegov

Maurice,

I need to correct my previous post. FSX does have an N1 offset. Logic now is so servos are powered when A/T is armed AND N1 hold or SPEED hold or TOGA is active.

Cheers
Diego

---

You also need the VNAV selection to enable the A/T as well since selecting VNAV clears the speed selection on the MCP.

Maurice

Hi Diego,

Can you tell me the N1 and Speed buttons FSUIPC offsets ?


Regards Wendy

These are form the Advanced FSUIPC user guide, hope it means
something to the software guru's...:)

2019 PM MCP A/T on
2020 PM MCP A/T off
2021 PM MCP THR mode button (N1)
2022 PM MCP SPD mode button
2023 PM MCP Mach/IAS sel
2024 PM MCP FLCH mode button
2025 PM MCP HDG mode button
2026 PM MCP VNAV mode button
2027 PM MCP LNAV mode button

Nat

PS Thanks for the effort in this area, its been bugging me for years...

Diego,

I already found the offsets.

For anyone who is interested:

07DC = AP Airspeed holt
07EC = AP V/S Hold
080C = AP TOGA
07F4 = AP RPM Hold (N1)


Regards, Wendy

Guys,

Here is a copy of the program.. Please note.. All care but no responsibilty when running it! Ill try my best to assist with any issues, but unfortunately i cannot really support it....

http://www.sendspace.com/file/153z9b

@Maurice, Vnav is not provided by the default FSX MCP AFAIK, you must use project magenta?

@Nat, The settings you have provided are PM specific, which i dont own. I might be able to download the demo at a later stage and try to make it compatible.

Please read the readme.txt, There are a few caveats with this first version such as throttle 1 and 2 must be on servo input 0 and 1 respectively and a few others

Hope someone finds it useful. Ill be looking at adding the trim indicator and trim wheel control to the program soon.

Cheers

Diego

Thanks heaps Diego. Would love to try it but my Sim is running PM.

Would it be hard to do a version for PM MCP?;) Please:)

Cheers,

Nat

Nat,

Try this and report back if you can:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/54ndcv

Hopefully now with PM support :roll:

Thanks Diego! I am in the middle of re-configuring my comps,
hopefully get to test it by end of weekend...

Nat

Great Nat,

Thanks. Im working on the same for the spoiler handle now and i've just exposed the velocity and acceleration values of the card so they are configurable. I'll also be adding a BITE test for the throttles. So if you can let me know whether the PM stuff works or what is missing.. that would be great.

Thanks

Diego

Diego...Had an error as soon a s I fired it up.
Is it because I have the "4 servo card" and not the advance 8 motor????

http://www.mycockpit.org/photopost/s...80&ppuser=1951


Nat
http://www.mycockpit.org/photopost/s...80&ppuser=1951

http://www.mycockpit.org/photopost/s...80&ppuser=1951

Hi Nat,

Ouch.. thats a nasty error. That actual error is probably an exception i havent handled then which i have now fixed. Looks like the program hadnt connected to WideFS first before trying to retrieve some FSUIPC data... But either way... yes... unfortunately it will only work with an AdvancedServo8 card. There are acceleration and velocity properties which are not available on the standard servo card... Sorry about that mate...

Any chance you'll be upgrading to an AdvanceServo8 anytime soon?

I can look at putting in standard servo support.. but that will take a while as the code calls AdvanceServo8 api exclusively for all function. I would have to create my own functions when calling servo commands and within those functions distringuish what APIs to call for which servo card... again it will take a while.....

Sorry again.. BTW love your SIM.. seen the picks on the FDS site and it would be an honor to see my proggy diving your throttles one day :)

Diego

Thanks heaps mate.

Im thinking of trying to write some logic variables with the existing card
to achieve the power inhibit conditions....if that doesn't work Ill have to
"upgrade"...again:)

Dont stress too much and thanks for your efforts!

Nat

Hello cockpit builders

Quote:
----------------------------------------------
Nat, Try this and report back if you can:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/54ndcv

Hopefully now with PM support
----------------------------------------------

I've tried the software and had an error during startup.
"Could not open phidgets library"

when phidget is running or not.

I'm using the advanced card in combination with PM.

Hope that you can fix this problem (soon)

ty
Michèl

Michèl,

Try this version:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/ned16t

and make sure you are using the latest library:

Phidget-x86_2.1.6.20090430

There seems to be a problem with older librarys and my proggy.

Cheers

Diego

Hello Diego,

I've installed the newest phidget library and run the program with succes. :p TYVM Finally I can disengage the A/T and control the throttle manually. Again TYVM

Only VNAV mode does not control the throttle levers. Is it possible to program this in the logic.
1.) A/T armed and
2.) mode N1 or Speed or VNAV
Then engage the servo

- MCP software PM: VNAV_output offset 04F0 (part 14 of bitmap)

Maybe you can also implement the spoiler in the program to servo 2.

Thanks,

Michel

Hey Michèl,

your welcome. Im glad it works for you. :) Yes i will have a look at the PM vnav setting. I am currently working on the spoiler deployment and soon will build it so i can run my interfacekit from it as well.. I will post a new update when i have it developed a little further.

Thanks

Diego

Thanks :D

I'm looking forward to see your new update.

Michèl

ps I did not need FS2Phidget for the autothrottle to function. It runs with your software only. Right?
And the advanced servo card is not attached in FS2Phidget when I start up FS2Phidget after DVATXv103.

Ok, here is another update which should respond to PM's Vnav setting, also added servo spoiler support (but have not tested this thoroughly)

Also taken a big step and added support for the interfacekit card to read your pot sensors and interact with FS.

The ini file defines the control (ie throttle 1), offset, sensor value, max and min settings etc...

By default:

Throttle 1 connects to sensor input 0
Throttle 2 connects to sensor input 1
Throttle 3 Reverser connects to sensor input 2
Throttle 4 Reverser connects to sensor input 3
Spoiler connects to sensor input 5

No support for Throttle and reverser on same pot at the moment.

Flaps, Digital input and output and more fine tuning to come soon.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/e7wv6p

Cheers

Diego

VNAV mode is working. TYVM

I have also tried the spoiler lever but had some problems with it. The servo is engaged immediately in armed position. How does it work/function in other sims? Is it the calibration in FSUIPC or a bug in the software?

:cool: Michèl :cool:

Hello diegov

Already solved the problems?
Can you upload the most recent version of the throttle controller?
Or maybe it's possible to upload the source code?

TYVM

Michèl

Hi Michèl,

I have not given up on this.. Still need to work on the spoiler logic. Ive also added digital inputs which can be configured to trigger things such as autopilot disconnect/toga/and park break, but as it is End of financial year in australia ive been very busy at work.. Ill upload something in a couple of weeks...

Cheers

Diego

Hello diegov

TY for the update about your progress. I'm looking forward to see the improvements. Keep up the good work. :D and take your time.

Michèl

Okay fellow cockpit builders..

Dont know who is following the progress but here is a quick update:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/cue680

Ive added Digital Input sensing. You must configure this manually from within the ini file itself but it is pretty simple.. I've left my setting in there as a sample. It controls fuel cuttoff, toga button, at disarm button and park break. Also hard coded park brake light to light up on Digital output 0. This is again "HARD CODED" and not modifyable so you must connect your LED to digi output 0 for it to work.

Also updated spoiler deploy routine. Hopefully the spoiler can now be moved freely when attached to the servo and it will only fire when it is armed and the spoiler moves all the way to deploy on landing. I cant really test this as i am still to connect my spoiler lever.

Soon to come will be flaps and trim wheel control.

Have fun.. And please let me know if anyone is finding this tool useful, if not i will stop posting it and wasting space in the mycockpit sql database with my posts.

:)

Diego (YSSY)

Hi Diegov,

Very nice and useful piece of software.
Thanks much for it.
Two questions if you don't mind:

1. If I disable the throttle entries in the .ini file, it still works, so are the offsets hard-coded as you said so.
But which are the hard-coded offsets you used for throttles?
088C or 089A and 0924 or 0932 ?

2. Could you explain a bit the VELOCITY and ACCELERATION values in the ini?

regards
Potroh

Hi Diego,

Thank you very much for taking some of your time to help us out. I am following your progress closely. This is an amazing and useful software. Please do not give up on this since some of us are really in need of it. Keep us updated and take care.


Regards,

Pedro

Hi Gents,

Thanks for the gratitude. Ill make sure i post future updates.

@Potroh. I have hardcoded 088C and 0924 as the offset the servos will use to respond to engine values. The offsets in the ini file are used to write the pot value to fsuipc for engines 1 and 2.

VELOCITY controls the speed of the servos when moving back and forth. ACCELERATION is how quick the velocity is reached, if that makes sense. Playing around with the setting may make your throttles smoother or jerkier. The values in the ini give me smooth movement.

Ive just purchased additional sensor cables for my flap pot, a servo for my spoiler and the phidget motor card for my trim wheels. Hopefully will have another update for you guys in a few weeks...

Cheers

Diego

Hi Gents.

Here is a fairly big update!

http://www.sendspace.com/file/79xt1q

Ive added FLAPS :) Just use the flap configure button under the sensor configuration page and define the flap ranges for each notch.. Make sure your ranges do not overlap. My proggy does not check for overlapping ranges.

Also if you have a phidgets motor card... your trim wheels will move back and forth :) The motor must be connected to the motor 0 input of the card.

I think the program is pretty functional at this stage and can be used to replace fs2phidget for 737 throttles.

There is some tweaking still to do, but i think all functions are mostly covered.

I still need to implement trim indication on a servo output, but that should be to hard.

Please review my ini file for setting information and examples...

Enjoy

Diego

This is a question not just for for Diego, but anyone playing with 737 TQ's...

Has anyone been able to successfully control DC motors to drive the levers
in auto-throttle mode???
Using Phidgets Motor card I can get them to move back and forth,
BUT they don't really know what position they are in...they just go back and forth....

Nat

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by diegov

I have hardcoded 088C and 0924 as the offset the servos will use to respond to engine values. The offsets in the ini file are used to write the pot value to fsuipc for engines 1 and 2.

---

Hi Diego,

Just a humble question: would it be possible to change (optionally) these hard-coded ones to configurable variables?
Asking, because for instance in my case I would simply need the other two available offsets, as my actual throttle pots are connected to a very different system.

thanks and regards
Potroh