Throttle Control Alternative for Phidgets

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Melnato

Has anyone been able to successfully control DC motors to drive the levers
in auto-throttle mode???
Using Phidgets Motor card I can get them to move back and forth,
BUT they don't really know what position they are in...they just go back and forth....

Nat

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I would think this is not possible. You need some sort of feedback mechanism so that the driving software knows where the motor shaft is positioned and that is not available in a straight DC motor (or AC for that matter). That is why either servos or stepping motors are required since the shaft rotation can be controlled accurately.

Another problem with DC motors is that they don't normally stop instantly, so it would be rather hard to position them accurately even if you could devise some feedback mechanism.

But I could be wrong :D

Maurice

Hi Gents,

Nat, AFAIK Maurice is correct. For DC motors some sort of encoder device would be required to provide position information to the computer controlling the motor. You would need to use something like an optical encoder or i guess you could use a POT to feedback on the position of the throttles.

@Potroh, Your request should be fairly easy to implement. Ill get it done on the next release!

Cheers

Diego

Hi Diego,


Thank you x 2!!! I really appreciate your hard work.

Regards,


Pedro

Quote:

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Originally Posted by diegov

Hi Gents,
@Potroh, Your request should be fairly easy to implement. Ill get it done on the next release!

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Diego,

Sounds wonderful!
Eagerly waiting...

thanks in advance
Potroh

Thanks Diego and Mau....was just hoping for a miracle:smile:

Nat

hi if you looking for or know anybody who needs a motion platform I have one a 2 dof for sell.
Thanks
Helio

I'm in the same boat Nat!!! I'll keep you posted if any solutions arise !! :idea:

Thanks Phil...Ill hold you to it:)

There must be a way...

Nat

Hi Guys,

I placed another version into the mycockpit file library. It is under phidgets.

Ive added the ability to specify the fsuipc offset reference for the throttle servos..

Also modified the trim wheel code to provide high and low rotation modes depending on the flap settings.. Thanks to Nat for the info :)

Also modified the code so trim wheel spin at intervals rather than countinously.

If you use sim-avionics like me then you can modify the INI file to detect A/T settings for the sim-avionics MCP.. Please read the readme.txt

Cheers

Diego

Diego,

The new version is great, works perfectly, many thanks.
Just one question: where do you save the calibration data?

regards
Potroh

Hi Potroh,

All calibration data is saved in the dvatx.ini file.. under min= max= values..

Actually Ive just found a bug in the proggy where the trim wheel doesnt work correctly when the motorcard and interfacecard are plugged in together.. But Ive fixed that...

Ive also added the auto retraction of the spoiler/speedbrake once the plane has touched down and throttle is applied... Will update in the library soon.

:)

Cheers

Diego

Hello diegov, (I'm back from my vacation)

I have installed the new version but it does not work properly. Only with the calibration slider I can control the levers. Trimwheel does nothing.

The cockpit is from flightdecksolutions and I'm using project magenta.

PROJECTMAGENTA=1

For the throttle quadrant I have the advancedServo8 card and the Phidget Motor Card but not the Interface 8/8/8 card. Our interface with the throttle quadrant is the BU0836 card.

Another question about controlling a wiper DC motor of a Fiat Cinquecento with the High Current Motor card. Does the card have enough power with the phidgets adapter? The DC motor was already installed in the throttle quadrant.

TYVM

Michèl

V1.10 does not work (no throttle (only manual), spoiler and trimwheel)
V1.05 controls the throttle levers very good (but no spoiler and trimwheel control)

Michel,

Try this:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/asd58k

There are some bugs in v1.10.. i havent fully tested this new version, but let me know how it goes.

I dont have PM so i also didnt test that component on the latest builds.. If it doesnt work with PM please try with the default MCP and let me know. This new version also contains spoiler logic to move the handle back to down when you apply throttles on the ground. The Phidget HC cards requires seperate power to power the DC motor. The DC motor is isolated from the USB power.

Diego

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Melnato

Thanks Phil...Ill hold you to it:)

There must be a way...

Nat

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There IS a way to control dc motors and have feedback.

There is a file in the download library by PDG737. He has built his own throttle using dc motors with feedback. You can find a video in the videolibrary with me flying his sim.

He is currently motorizing my real 200 throttle.

We are using a small pcb from Conrad. you connect a dc motor and a feedback pot to it, and the pcb is connected to a servo card. So in fact your computer thinks its driving a servo, but it is driving a dc motor. Clutch connected to the dc motor and you can push through the lever position. When released the lever will go back to the assigned position.

A schematic of his system can be found here:
http://www.mycockpit.org/fileshare/s...e=306&catid=27


This does mean you can not use a dc motors interface but have to use a servo card.

Stef

hi diego - thanks for the work on the AT -

I've been using FS2P to drive my throttles using a DC motor and a hacked HiTec servo - details are here - using this rig, one can use any DC motor upto 28VDC

details here: http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/showthread.php?t=14926


will try and post a video sometime soon

Farrokh

Hello all!

We have DC motors too and what we're trying to do now is to write a simple application that reads (via FSUIPC) actual levers position (read through the FS2Phidgets and 8/8/8 card), desired position (from another variable) and puts the difference to the third variable, which is linked (in FS2Phidgets) to the HC DC motor driver from Phidgets.

Now we have limited success due to the fact that real PID regulator is needed to be implemented.

What do you think about this way?

Thanks Stef!

This is great news...

(i did post something longer last night but it disappeared???)

Regards,

Nat

Diego,

I have a small problem with my throttle and hope you can help me a bit.

Asking, because my hardware throttle has a TOGA push-button, it only changes the toga state and unless N1 is ON and lights up the servos don't move in TOGA mode.
When using your prg to drive the servos, everything works fine, but pressing toga will not connect the servos unless I press the N1 button on my MCP.

So either somehow I need to invoke the N1 button to change state when TOGA is pushed, or even better would be to know which offset do you use to disconnect the servos and under what exact conditions.

thanks in advance
Potroh

Hi Potroh,

What are you using for the MCP? is it the default FSX MCP?

DVATX will power the servos for toga as long as the bit is set for offset 080C and the AT is armed, so if you are using the phidgets interface card you can configure the dvatx.ini file to use one of the digital sensor to set the offset 080C to a value of 1 and connect that to your hardware toga button to the phidget card, alternatively you will need to somehow get your toga button to set offset 080C to 1 through another mechanism

Let me know how you go.

Cheers

Diego

Quote:

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Originally Posted by diegov

Hi Potroh,
What are you using for the MCP? is it the default FSX MCP?
DVATX will power the servos for toga as long as the bit is set for offset 080C and the AT is armed

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Hi Diego,

Thanks for your prompt answer.
Well, my case is a bit complicated, as I use Poject Magenta and CPFlight's MCP hardware.
Thus, offset 080C has little use for me, as PM's MCP is deliberately disables it by default.
PM is using its own offset for TOGA (050A bit 0) and ignores the default one.

I can of course write a small line in PMSystems to invoke 080C to be on, whenever my pushbutton
is pressed, but PM's MCP changes it back to 0 immediately.
DVATX is so nice and gives me such a smooth and nice movement for servos, that I truly love it, apart from this,
which actually forced me to ask about this problem.

If you can think of any solution for me, please help
regards
Potroh

Hi Diego,

I am having the same problem, can't get the TOGA to work :-(. Testing my throttle with PM, Flightdecksolutions MCP and using phidgets all the way around. Any help is very appreciated :-). Thanks!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by xtreme3d

Hi Diego,
I am having the same problem, can't get the TOGA to work :-(. Testing my throttle with PM, Flightdecksolutions MCP and using phidgets all the way around. Any help is very appreciated :-). Thanks!!!

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Hello there,

I have Simparts throttle and the TOGA button is assigned as below to Fs2Phidgets:
[AUTO_THROTTLE_TOGA]
Offset=080C
Length=4
FSType=Digital
OffValue=0
OnValue=1

Everything is wokring normal, when i press TOGA button (just a simple push-button) the TOGA mode is engaged and the auto-trottle moves the thust levers fwd. I don't have the TOGA button connected to CpFlight's MCP Pro input, but via offset it works the same.

Regards

Eddie

Quote:

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Originally Posted by oal331

Everything is wokring normal, when i press TOGA button (just a simple push-button) the TOGA mode is engaged and the auto-trottle moves the thust levers fwd. I don't have the TOGA button connected to CpFlight's MCP Pro input, but via offset it works the same.

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Eddie,

And you don't use Project Magenta?
If you don't it works of course.
But doesn't work for those using it because the TODA offset is different.

regards
Potroh

Potroh,

i'm using Project Magenta !!
Maybe all the offsets i'm using are different, i have to check again.
For which offset you want to me to check?

Eddie

Quote:

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Originally Posted by oal331

i'm using Project Magenta !!
Maybe all the offsets i'm using are different, i have to check again.
For which offset you want to me to check?

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Eddie,

That's strange.
Project Magenta is NOT using the default 080C offset for toga at all.
In fact as many people fly PM without a panel it wouldn't have any use either, as PM also disables the default AT armed switch at 0x810, so no way the default TOGA could be invoked by.
What plane do you use?

regards
Potroh

Hi Potroh,

If you are using project magenta and have specified PROJECTMAGENTA=1 in the dvatx.ini then dvatx looks at offset 04F0 to compute its autothrottle logic. I check bits 9 -SPD, 10 - THR, 11 - AT, 14 - VNAV. If bit 11 is set to 1 and any of the other bits are set to one then the servos will power.. I personally dont use PM so im not sure how the TOGA works. I assumed that PM would envoke N1 when the TOGA was pressed. If you can let me know what values and offset change when TOGA is used in PM.. im happy to modify the program for you.. BTW i have posted version 1.16 on the board that has some additional features plus bug fixes..

Cheers

Diego

Hi Diego,

Is is possible to download the file from an alternate location? Tried the MC download library and just kept getting an error :(. Thanks!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Potrohkocsonya

Eddie,

That's strange.
Project Magenta is NOT using the default 080C offset for toga at all.
In fact as many people fly PM without a panel it wouldn't have any use either, as PM also disables the default AT armed switch at 0x810, so no way the default TOGA could be invoked by.
What plane do you use?

regards
Potroh

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Sorry my mistake, i was looking an ini file, which contains many offsets :-(

The correct offset is 04F2
Here is the ini :
[PMTO/GA]
Offset=04F2
Length=2
FSType=Digital
OnValue=121
Multiplier=1
Divisor=1
Integer=True
NormalizeAngle=False
WriteOnly=False
Format=0
OffValue=0

Copy from Pm's site for 04F2

MCP/FCU Throughpass (See MCPcodes at the end) (Read/Write)
Example: Write Value 33 to engage AP2 (K033 ELAN Code). Once read, the MCP resets the value to 0 and is ready for another read.
Only last three digits are used, you can use the thousands to indicate the key has been pressed again (state change), i.e. 4033 and 7033 do the same

Use 121 for TOGA (without N1)

DisableRemoteMCP must be set to OFF in the INI file for this to work.

I wish this will help you

Eddie

Quote:

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Originally Posted by diegov

I assumed that PM would envoke N1 when the TOGA was pressed. If you can let me know what values and offset change when TOGA is used in PM.. im happy to modify the program for you..

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Hi Diego,

No, Project Magenta - fortunately - doesn't invoke N1 with the TOGA. That would be rather unrealistic.
Hence - just as Eddie quoted above:
It can be done either by writing a value of 121 to 0x04F2
or 0x050A bit 0
and 0x051C bit 2 does the same
- if I'm not mistaken.
Only 050A is writable.

So as a solution I guess either or both would be just perfect for us who use PM.
I think a single future entry in the ini file would do it for us, so could try both offsets if needed.
BTW, I wanted to drive my toga switch via DVATX, but as you don't accept bit in the ini, only bytes, it was not possible for the above mentioned reason.

Oh yes, and I'm also unable to download the new file.

thanks and eagerly waiting
Potroh

Eddie,

So finally you use 04f2, that's very different, now I understand why it works for you.

regards
Potroh

Hi Potroh,

After reading your post, I will need to modify DVATX to read 0x051C bit 2 for TOGA.. Ill try do this over the weekend and report back.. Even though DVATX doesnt specifically accept values in bit format, you should be able to set bit values with bytes.. IE if you want to set bit 0 to on, you can try specify the byte value of 1 ,if you want to set bit 1 to on set the byte value to 2, bit 3 to on, byte value of 4 and so on...

You could set all the bits to on by using a value of 255, for example.

Regarding the dvatx download, I think the file is not available as yet as MyCockpit has not approved it.

Ill make those modification on the weekend and post something up.. Let me know how you go with setting TOGA by assigning a value of 1 to 050A in dvatx.ini

Cheers

Diego

Hi Diego,

Thanks for your efforts, much appreciated.
I guess the easiest would be if you could just check 050A bit 3 or 4, when ProjectMagenta=1 as according to the PM documentation it just does what we need, it is supposed to be knowing when to disconnect the throttle. No need to check it separately, as I am not sure it wouldn't do some problems when doing an LNAV descent.
PM's 'retard' annunciation I think is specific to the suite, so it would be simpler.

I will of course test setting bits in dvatx this evening (if I knew 6 months ago it was possible...)

Waiting for your incredible further efforts.

thanks and regards
Potroh

Hi Diego,

Not to urge you or sort of stuff like that, but did you have any luck?
I'm truly excited about the toga thing...

regards
Potroh