Matrox Parhelia and FS

[Darrell Lloyd]

Hello Everyone,

I am hoping to get some feedback about the how well the Matrox Parhelia Video
cards work with MSFS.

At present, Matrox has Two PCI-e X-16 cards available that support 3+
monitors. The QID LP, which supports 4 DVI monitors, sells for about $800.00. The
Parhelia APVe supports 3 monitors, (2 DVI + 1 VGA or 3 VGA)and sells for
about $350.00.

I really want 3 forward view monitors, Preferably DVI. But before I invest in
an $800.00 video card, I would really like to here from someone who has
used one. Any input on the APVe would be good also.

I know I could use WidevieW, but for me that would require building two more
computers just like my current FS computer. I like keeping things equal and
that would cost far more than the QID LP.

I hope someone has some experience with at least one of these cards.

Thanks to all for reading, and happy Simming.

[Vanantwerpen Gilles]

hi
today (very recently and actualy in test)i use a double pciexpress video
card (2 X MSI NX7800GTX 256) on P5N32-SLI ASUS motherboad
with : P4 3.8Ghz 2 Go DDR2 power 580Watts . (some fans also!!!)
so i can use a four monitors desktop. but my need is only 3 to have an
extended cockpit view.
i have today only 2 display in 1024x768 and 1 in 800x600 when i switch to
full screen.(it's my onlyone problem, else it's realy splendid , smoothly,
and a real pleasure to have the same wheater and AI to the 3 screens)
when i'm in windowed mod i can put the three screens in 1200x1024.
the 2 good screens aren't on the same card.
if somebody have an idea.....
best regards


fsfan@free.fr
"Darrell Lloyd" a écrit dans le message de news:
379315.76143@wb.onvix.com...
> Hello Everyone,
>
> I am hoping to get some feedback about the how well the Matrox Parhelia
> Video
> cards work with MSFS.
>
> At present, Matrox has Two PCI-e X-16 cards available that support 3+
> monitors. The QID LP, which supports 4 DVI monitors, sells for about
> $800.00. The
> Parhelia APVe supports 3 monitors, (2 DVI + 1 VGA or 3 VGA)and sells for
> about $350.00.
>
> I really want 3 forward view monitors, Preferably DVI. But before I invest

> in
> an $800.00 video card, I would really like to here from someone who has
> used one. Any input on the APVe would be good also.
>
> I know I could use WidevieW, but for me that would require building two
> more
> computers just like my current FS computer. I like keeping things equal
> and
> that would cost far more than the QID LP.
>
> I hope someone has some experience with at least one of these cards.
>
> Thanks to all for reading, and happy Simming.
>

[Peter Dowson]

On 1/6/2006 9:12:56 PM, Darrell Lloyd wrote:
>At present, Matrox has Two
>PCI-e X-16 cards available
>that support 3+ monitors. The
>QID LP, which supports 4 DVI
>monitors, sells for about
>$800.00. The Parhelia APVe
>supports 3 monitors, (2 DVI +
>1 VGA or 3 VGA)and sells for
>about $350.00.

Hey, this is good news! I have two of the original Parhelia cards and it
looked for a while as if they were never going to bring out any faster ones!

>I hope someone has
>some experience with at least
>one of these cards.

I am interested too.

BTW I use the Parhelia with FS in full screen mode and the Parhelia set to
provide the three screens as one wide window. So it isn't "3 views"
left/fwd/right, but one view, forward, but so wide that you make the zoom wide angle
(i.e. use 0.5 -- any wider and you get fish-eye effects near the edges).

That works well, with good frame rates (scenery only, no panel of course),
because FS only has one window and it is all accelerated. Trying to run
separate views still wrecks frame rates.

Please let us know what you find about the new Parhelias!

Regards

Pete

[Darrell Lloyd]

I had considered switching to an SLI capable motherboard, but I think I read
somewhere that even with two dual head SLI cards, you are still limited to
a horizontal span across only two monitors. Is your system capable of
spanning the FS forward view across three monitors?

[Darrell Lloyd]

Hi Pete,
Yes that is good that they finally came out with Parhelia PCIe cards. The 3
monitor horizontal span is what I was leaning toward anyway. It would give
the same basic effect as having Forward left-Forward-Forward right views
without the hassel of having to use and synchonize(weather,terrain
mesh,scenery etc) three computers.

If you are pleased with the older Parhelia card, I assume it must be an AGP,
then I'm sure I would be very happy with the PCIe version.

I currently have two Sceptre 19" Gamer monitors, with the third one soon to
be purchased. They are VGA/DVI monitors and have excellent everything. I
hooked one of them up in the DVI mode by itself, and all I can say is that it
left my eyes begging for more. But unless I can get a report from someone
who has used the Parhelia QID, which is the 4head DVI card, ($800) I'll have
to opt for the lesser expensive VGA card.

Thanks for the reply. If or when I get the card, I'll let you know how it
performs.

[Darrell Lloyd]

BTW Pete I meant to attach a PDF of matrox's line with specs, but I posted
too soon. Darn fast fingers.

Here it is:

[Peter Dowson]

On 1/7/2006 7:09:07 PM, Darrell Lloyd wrote:
>If you are pleased
>with the older Parhelia card,
>I assume it must be an AGP,
>then I'm sure I would be very
>happy with the PCIe version.

Yes. The speed isn't up to other modern cards (nVidia 6800/7800, even ATI
9800) but it doesn't need to be with no panel, only the scenery. I use 3 x 18"
TFTs and they could work at 3840 x 1024 res, but there is a frame rate hit
at that, and, quite honestly, I think the scenery looks just as good at
2400 x 600 with higher frame rates. At that res panels and aircraft wouldn't
look so good (close up), but if anything it helps remove that glittery mip
mapping flicker you get with higher resolutions and insufficient
filtering.

>But unless I can get
>a report from someone who has
>used the Parhelia QID, which
>is the 4head DVI card, ($800)
>I'll have to opt for the
>lesser expensive VGA card.

Well, the original Parhelias only supported 1 x DVI plus 2 x VGA. I have the
centre one as DVI and the others on VGA, and I cannot tell any differnce to
be honest. I think with high quality monitors there's little difference --
I'd certainly find it hard to justify $800 over a mere $350 just for that
-- performance, though, that's another matter.

My two Parhelias were £350 (UKP) each -- i.e. about $550 or so -- when I
bought them several years ago, so it seems you get really good value now in any
case ;-)

Regards,

Pete

[Peter Dowson]

On 1/7/2006 7:18:22 PM, Darrell Lloyd wrote:
>BTW Pete I meant to attach a
>PDF of matrox's line with
>specs, but I posted too soon.
>Darn fast fingers.
>Here it is:

Thanks!

Reading that it seems to imply that on my AGP Parhelias you can have 2 DVIs
plus 1 Analog, but that isn't so. I think you can have 3 Analog or 2 Analog
and 1 DVI. Maybe, if you only want 2 monitors, you can connect 2 DVIs. I've
never only wanted two, so I've not investigated that.

So, take care -- check these things first!

Regards,

Pete

[Tony Van der Voodt]

Hi Darrell,

For our flightdeck a Parhelia 256 MB (AGP 8x) with 64 bit XP OS works
excellent for a 3 monitor horizontal span.
(see PM references, private projects page for our set-up).

The 64 bit video drivers are perfect and overall we are enjoying nice frame
rates (set at 24 fps).

With an SLI system, that we used before, we never could obtain the same
results.
Matrox Parhelia is worth the money and at the time, Pete's advice gave us the
last push to go for it.

Tony

[Darrell Lloyd]

Thanks Tony,

Just last friday I ordered the 64 bit version of XP. It should arive one
day this week. I checked to ensure Matrox had the drivers for 64bit, and
they did. So last night I ordered the PCIe Parhelia.

Hopefully, next week i'll let all know how it works.

Thanks to the good people on this forum i was able to make a decision.

[Vanantwerpen Gilles]

it's ok today (3 x 1024x768)
i have 3 [window] 1,2,3 on forward view and with 3 differents"pan
headind"
as 310,360,and 050 degres view (like wideview) : it's great and without
wideview!
the weather is the same and AI also.
--
gilles VAN ANTWERPEN
fsfan@free.fr
"Darrell Lloyd" a écrit dans le message de news:
379649.76143@wb.onvix.com...
>I had considered switching to an SLI capable motherboard, but I think I
>read
> somewhere that even with two dual head SLI cards, you are still limited
to
> a horizontal span across only two monitors. Is your system capable of
> spanning the FS forward view across three monitors?
>

[Hans Krohn]

I am using 2 PCI cards (7800GTX and 6800GT) in a SLI mainboard (SLI not
enabled on the mainboard). The two cards are recognized by FS and I
configured FS to have 2 accelerated windows. Upon startup, both windows are

on the 1st display, so I have to drag the 2nd window to the 2nd monitor. But

FS does memorize the pan position of that second window, so I am all set for

flying in a short while.

In the past (when I had only one PCI card) I experimented with 2 monitors
connected to that one card. While using monitor span (one accelerated window

over 2 monitros) I got good results fps-wise, but I had the problem with an

unaligned horizon during banks. The second option, to have dual view, i.e.
one accelerated FS window per monitor did work, but with a rather heavy hit

on framerates, and I also got graphics errors on the second monitor.

I think that 3 accelerated FS windows really push todays CPUs to their
limits, resulting in a problem with frame rates. (I use an AMD 64 3700+ and

2 GB RAM.)

Hans

"Darrell Lloyd" wrote in message
news:379649.76143@wb.onvix.com...
>I had considered switching to an SLI capable motherboard, but I think I
>read
> somewhere that even with two dual head SLI cards, you are still limited
to
> a horizontal span across only two monitors. Is your system capable of
> spanning the FS forward view across three monitors?
>

[Peter Dowson]

On 1/12/2006 3:51:18 AM, Hans Krohn wrote:
>While using monitor span (one
>accelerated window
>over 2 monitros) I got good
>results fps-wise, but I had
>the problem with an
>unaligned horizon during
>banks.

This is only because there's a gap between the two parts of the one window.
The secret is to make sure you get TFT monitors with a very narrow frame
(bezel), and site them very close, even possibly slightly overlapping (this
works if they are big enough and you are not too close to them).

My Parhelia, using a single maximimsed scenery window over 3 monitors at
2400x600 (or 3840x1024 with less frame rate) is connected to three identical
18" LG TFT monitors which have narrow bezels (a little under an inch), and
the split horizon effect is minor and easily forgiven. I think you can get
monitors with even smaller bezels.

>I think that 3 accelerated FS
>windows really push todays
>CPUs to their
>limits, resulting in a
>problem with frame rates.

Yes, hence the solution of having a single window spanning all monitors. I
could not tolerate a two monitor view, because "straight ahead" then falls in
exactly the worst place, between the two monitors! I suppose, if you are
sitting in the left seat you could opt for one ahead view and the other
45-60 degrees to the left. This might be okay for GA flying.

Regards,

Pete

[Darrell Lloyd]

Hello again,

Well, here it is a week or so later and I have XP x64 and the Parhelia card
installed. I am both very impressed and very dissapointed. The Parhelia
drivers automatically adjust the screens so that one flows directly into the
other. The clarity is both great and horrible. When you are using the raised
eyepoint, the terrain all the way across 3 monitors is very clear and
defined, but once you raise the eyepoint to even barely include the horizon,
everything past half way up the screen goes blurry. That is much more apparent
when flying over low elevation areas with no mountains. In the mountainous
areas it is not nearly as apparent. I guess I'm just spoiled. My Gforce
N6600GT TOP display was clear all the way, no matter where you flew.

Frame rates stink too. I didnt realize the Parhelia would barely make 20 fps
in high res mode.

Don't even think about running MegaScenery. That aint happening. Most
everything related to FS9 is DX hungry and the Parhelia is OpenGL rich.

One more note and a gripe about Elite simulations products. Their drivers are
32bit drivers and they clame there products are designed to work on 32
bit. Their stance seems to be oh well, too bad. Ch products operate just fine
without any additional drivers, Saitek has 64 bit drivers available for
there products, and my GoFlight stuff works without additional drivers. I
expect there will be a lot of Elite customers that are left out in the dark
like me. My Elite MEL quad just turned into a $250 paper weight.

[Greg Kernaghan]

I experimented with multi-monitor setups on one computer and found the bevel
/ horizon issue to be a recurring pain.

Instead, I have opted for a single 30" Dell 2560 x 1600 display driven by a
X1900XTX video card (just got the card). The window on the world is
awesome, albeit at the expense of that "turn your head" immersive quality.

To that end, is anyone here using the TrackpointIR head tracking system with
any success? My instinct says that there's too much going on in the
cockpit requiring head movement to warrant such a device - surely having the
panning occur whenever you reach or look for something would be
distracting????

Any thoughts / experience there?

gk

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