Making a cockpit frame with MDF

[Hypnorm]

Hi Folks,

Just wondering if anyone has tried this.

In order to mount my A320 overhead (and for general cockpit realism) I have come to the conclusion that I need a proper frame to make a realistic shell. I went hunting at all the usual sim specialist shops before coming to the conclusion that prefabricated frames were just too expensive for me.

I then had a notion to build my own and turned my head towards T-slot extruded aluminium profile, but even that was going to be a huge cost that I couldn't justify.

From there I thought of cheaper solutions with Timber or MDF, but decided that I wouldn't get the structural strength I needed.

I was watching an episode of Grand Designs and was intrigued to see people building houses with GluLam beams (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glued_laminated_timber). This seems to offer great structural integrity and allows for complex shapes to be built up.

I began designing in Sketchup and have been able to produce a set of drawings that will enable me to make a frame made from 9mm MDF slices. I can use these to make 36mm GluLam structural elements (4 slices per element). All up, I think I can produce something similar to Vier Im Pott's light aluminium frame from around 8 1200x900mm sheets of 9mm MDF - which will be around $160AUD.

I have also produced a 1/3 scale version of the plans which I will laser cut first to see if my drawings are correct and will post back here with pics when I have a chance to try.

In the meantime, before I do all the cutting of the 9mm sheets - I would be grateful if anyone had any insights as to whether it is worthwhile to even try this, or if anyone has done anything similar.

As usual, I will post the files to the library when I am sure it works :)

H

[jonesthesoftware]

Hi
Mdf is perfect for the whole shell. I have made my shell from 50x50mm timber with the inside skinned with 3mm mdf
I screwed it all together as its easier to correct mistakes and dismantle.As soon as you fix the 3mm mdf to the timber frame it becomes strong and rigid not to mention cheap. You only really need to get the inside looking good as the frame can be hidden.
Regards
Geoff


Hi Folks,

Just wondering if anyone has tried this.

In order to mount my A320 overhead (and for general cockpit realism) I have come to the conclusion that I need a proper frame to make a realistic shell. I went hunting at all the usual sim specialist shops before coming to the conclusion that prefabricated frames were just too expensive for me.

I then had a notion to build my own and turned my head towards T-slot extruded aluminium profile, but even that was going to be a huge cost that I couldn't justify.

From there I thought of cheaper solutions with Timber or MDF, but decided that I wouldn't get the structural strength I needed.

I was watching an episode of Grand Designs and was intrigued to see people building houses with GluLam beams (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glued_laminated_timber). This seems to offer great structural integrity and allows for complex shapes to be built up.

I began designing in Sketchup and have been able to produce a set of drawings that will enable me to make a frame made from 9mm MDF slices. I can use these to make 36mm GluLam structural elements (4 slices per element). All up, I think I can produce something similar to Vier Im Pott's light aluminium frame from around 8 1200x900mm sheets of 9mm MDF - which will be around $160AUD.

I have also produced a 1/3 scale version of the plans which I will laser cut first to see if my drawings are correct and will post back here with pics when I have a chance to try.

In the meantime, before I do all the cutting of the 9mm sheets - I would be grateful if anyone had any insights as to whether it is worthwhile to even try this, or if anyone has done anything similar.

As usual, I will post the files to the library when I am sure it works :)

H

[OmniAtlas]

I'll be interested in your progress H, always looking for an interior liner solution!

Regards.

[Hypnorm]

Thanks for that Geoff :)

Do you have any pics? I'd love to see what you've done.

Cheers,

H

Edit for spelling

[jonesthesoftware]

Hi
if you look at my profile pictures on this website youcan see some of the structure of my shell. I think my profile is public try this link.
The reason I used 3mm mdf is because you can bend it around the frame because a cockpit shell is not all flat surfaces. Smiply painted in white ceiling emulsion at the moment to seal the mdf.


http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/album.php?albumid=301
regards
geoff

[Steve Eisenberg]

Beautiful work! Congrats.

On a related subject, has anyone ever used MDF to create a glareshield? How would you get it to bend?

Regards,

Steve

[jonesthesoftware]

Beautiful work! Congrats.

On a related subject, has anyone ever used MDF to create a glareshield? How would you get it to bend?

Regards,

Steve
Hi Steve
Don't know which glare shield you refer to but a 767 is flat over the mcp then angles down at each side so no bend.
You can bend any timber by making a series of cuts say 15mm apart and 2/3 of the thickness on the inside of the bend then once it is fixed in position fill and sand over the cuts then paint. Another alternative is what's called bendy ply and even bendy mdf from diy suppliers. Search on internet. You can also bend perspex (acrylic sheet) by warming it carefully with a heat gun and simply applying pressure. Say for example make a jig or clamp then heat and bend and hold till cooldown. Don't put heat too close as surface willl bubble
Regards
Geoff

[Steve Eisenberg]

Thanks. Appreciate the advice. Have bent wood using the methods described but have no experience with MDF. I do not fly the big iron. Probably should have said that. I fly GA complex singles and twins.

Look forward to seeing your project progress. Mine is not as ambitious but I am upgrading to a fully functional replica of a Garmin G1000 glass cockpit and will post some pics and my impressions once it gets here and is set up.

Thanks again.

Best,

Steve

[Hypnorm]

Ok .... so phase 1 has been a success :D The 1/3 scale model I made out of 3mm MDF slots together beautifully and seems robust and rugged. I haven't glued the laminar elements together - only using a couple of bolts on each to hold it in place. I think when it is glued and put together it will be easily strong enough. I can always add bracing if I need to. The next step is to cut the 9mm MDF panels to build the full-scale frame. I will start that this week, but it will require 8 or 9 1200 x 900 sheets to get all the parts!! I also have to fix my numbering system to something more methodical and I'll write up some instructions. Once it's all done, I'll upload the drawings.

Cheers,

H

http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=11795&stc=1

http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=11794&stc=1

http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=11796&stc=1

[bobsta63]

That is svery cool Hypnorm (http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/member.php?u=3134)! - I'll shortly be starting to build a cockpit shell for my A320 project and your method looks great I too was was considering using MDF (cost friendly).

I'd love to download and use your measurements once you've uploaded!

Great work and thanks for sharing!

[OmniAtlas]

Hi Hypnorm -- I could potentially be interested in your support system :) Please share some pictures when the big one is up and running -- the test will come when you mount your overhead up above. Cheers.

Ben

[Hypnorm]

Hi again,

I haven't been able to make time to get the 9mm elements laser cut yet, but I do have a small update.

I glued the laminar elements of the 3mm version into GluLam structures and they are very strong indeed. I have no doubt that the 9mm version will be robust enough to support a full overhead and to build a proper shell around.

Watch this space :)

H

[Hypnorm]

Ok ..... another update :)

Having looked at how my new frame might fit with my existing cabinetry, I realised that it wouldn't!!!!

So I bit the bullet and have redesigned my cockpit frame from the ground up.

The sketchup files I have designed give me 173 pieces of MDF that make up the frame Including overhead), a complete floor, MIP, glareshield, sideboxes (where the joystick/tiller are) and seat boxes (for getting the seat to the right height and position). Everything is tabbed and slotted and all the elements that sit on the floor have anchoring points cut out of the floor plates.

It equates to 6 x 900x1200 6mm MDF sheets for the floor and 22 x 900x1200 9mm MDF sheets for the structural elements. It needs access to a high power laser cutter with a large bed. The cost is fairly substantial, but I think it will give an excellent base. The footprint is 2650mm wide x 2370mm deep and 1800mm high - so it requires a fair amount of space. All parts are numbers and coded properly.

To ensure that it does indeed fit together, I will make another 1/3 size prototype of the whole cockpit. I should get that done in the next week or so. I will post progress pics as it goes together. At that stage, I'll put the files up in the library.

Assuming it does behave itself, I will then start cutting the full size panels, which is likely to take a few weeks.

Stay tuned :)

H
.

[Hypnorm]

Hi again,

I managed to get the pieces cut for the 1/3 scale prototype. I have put it together and I'm really pleased with it (apart from the couple of measurement mistakes I made - but that's why we prototype, right?)

Here are some pics of the process.

http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=11871&stc=1
The parts on the laser cutter bed

http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=11872&stc=1
The floor plates laid

http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=11873&stc=1
Now the seat boxes go on

http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=11874&stc=1
And the sidestick/tiller boxes

http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=11875&stc=1
The MIP cabinetry

http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=11876&stc=1
The back shelf for the screens

http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=11877&stc=1
The Glareshield base and supporting frame goes on

http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=11878&stc=1
And the whole ensemble

http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=11879&stc=1
From the front.

I am now quite confident that it will all fit together full size and be robust and strong. If I was to buy new panels, I would need 6 sheets of 900mm x 1200mm x 6mm MDF and 22 sheets of 900mm x 1200mm x 9mm MDF. This will cost me about $500 Australian, which is quite expensive but gives a lot for the money. I will probably buy it a few sheets a week as I will also need to find the time to get it cut.

I am in the process of writing a construction guide (think of it as a 173-piece 3D jigsaw where a lot of the pieces look very similar) and will zip the lot up and place it in the file repository for any one who is interested.

Cheers,

H

[OmniAtlas]

Wow, I'm really impressed, this looks fantastic and something I may have interest in purchasing from you if you will be going ahead with full size plans.

I will however be using genuine parts and they are heavy, so I am not too sure if the overhead will hold with MDF.

Well done :)

[iwik]

Well done and thanks for the monumental effort.
Les

[Hypnorm]

I'm happy to make the plans available without charge for anyone who is interested.

You are probably correct that the weakest point of the frame will be the support at the front edge of the top ring that goes down to the back of the glareshield. The GluLam MDF structural elements are very strong and I would think they would hold up. I have already thought of a support improvement at the back edge - it currently sits in a slot on the TV shelf, but I could extend it down to the bottom ring which is a GluLam element slotted into the MIP cabinetry and will support a lot of weight.

The joint between the top ring and the support element going forward/down is the weakest point, but could be reinforced with angle brackets.

Do you have any idea of the weight of your completed overhead? When I build it, I will attempt to gauge it weight-bearing abilities :)

H

[spiliot]

Excellent job!

[OmniAtlas]

Do you have any idea of the weight of your completed overhead? When I build it, I will attempt to gauge it weight-bearing abilities :)

H

I have to reweigh it but I think at least 30 kg with the forward and aft overhead. Then you have to consider the overhead frame (DZUS rails). I assume it will need to support at least 40 kg at bare minimum.

[Hypnorm]

Gee!!! 40kg is a lot!!!!

I would say without building it and testing that the GluLam would hold it no problem. The issue is with that joint, which is probably the weakest part of the whole structure. There is a change of plane here and so it's just a glued push fit. Even braced with brackets, I don't know if I'd trust my expensive overhead to a few bits of MDF.

Looking at it - the only way I can working would be to
a) Run a suspension cable from the ceiling above down to that joint
or
b) Build a 3 piece frame (like a wide door frame) outside the existing frame out of angle iron or something strong and support the joint with a hanger.

It'll take me a couple of weeks to build up to that stage - I'll let you know my thoughts then :)

BTW - I'm very jealous of you having access to authentic parts.

H

[Hypnorm]

Sooooo .....

It has been a few weeks and I've had some problems with the industrial laser cutter that i have access to - all sorted now.

But I have managed to cut almost all of the pieces and have started to put it together.

It's HUGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 2.7m wide x 2.4m long x 2.1m high. I didn't really think about how big it would be. I have just enough space for it without tearing down my existing set up.

So far it is fitting together well. More pics to follow :)

http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=12088&stc=1
Floor Plates

http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=12089&stc=1
MIP carcasses in place

http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=12090&stc=1
From the front

http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=12091&stc=1
Rear Frame goes up

http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=12092&stc=1
From the back (or should that be the front?)

http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=12093&stc=1
Starting the Glareshield

So far so good ... It is all push fit so far. It's square and true and all the cutouts seem to be in the right place. When I'm happy, I'll PVA all the joints.

The GluLam frame elements are very strong and I'm happy with them too. I'm interested in how the rest of the frame elements fit together and how strong it will be. More pictures then.

H

[cptburgos]

Great work indeed.

I'll be starting this project too.

Thanks.

[Hypnorm]

Time for a major update.
I have now built the entire frame (except for one seat box) and I'm over the moon with how it looks and performs. The only compromise I have made is to fudge a couple of side supports as window frames in order to support the overhead - yes that joint is still the weakest part of the frame. The window frames aren't quite in the correct place, but I can live with it :) The frame easily holds a 30kg weight overhead with a little strain, but I don't know if I would push it much more than that :)


All up it was 8 sheets of 2400 x 1200 9mm MDF for the cockpit and 6 sheets of 1200 x 900 6mm MDF for the floor ... about AU$300 all up plus about AU$100 worth of laser time. I am really happy with it.

I will finish the construction guide and get the plans into the file library in the next few days. Meanwhile here are some pics ...
http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=12140&stc=1
Nose view

http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=12141&stc=1
FO Side view

http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=12142&stc=1
MIP view

http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=12143&stc=1
Side Bracing

http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=12144&stc=1
Top ring

Now I just need to paint it, skin it, trim it, transfer all my screens, computers, arduinos, interfaces, switches, buttons ............

[Hypnorm]

Hi again,
I have finally finished the sketchup files for the complete cockpit. The ZIP archive is currently in the moderation queue. It will appear as a link to a file on dropbox. For some reason, I couldn't upload the zip file to the file library - the error message was the file was too large, but it is only about 11Mb.

This ZIP archive contains Sketchup files for a complete, full-size A320 cockpit made from 9mm MDF. The archive includes sketchup files for the floor, MIP, Glareshield, seat boxes, sidestick boxes, and a frame structure for supporting the overhead.
It expands to 30 Sketchup files (easily exported to DXF) for laser cutting and a comprehensive instruction document.
It was designed to suit my own particular hardware, seats, etc, but is a very close approximation of the real thing in terms of dimensions.
Enjoy,
H

[iwik]

Thanks for the great effort and much appreciated.
Regards
Les