Flight characteristics as real aircrafts

[Brian]

Hello,
I am building homecockpits since 4 years using several hardware and PM double Boeing setup. My new project is a 737NG using...
1. CP USB MCP and both EFIS units
2. 4 clients driving PM software and the server driving FS9 (default 737)
3. PM System interfaces with Phidgets directly.
Everything is working fine... ,But...
Can enybody tell me the trick to get an nearly real flying aircraft.
Every ILS is out of limits using the PM MCP driven by the CP MCP. When intercepting the GS (HAM RWY 23) the FD commands UP, the aircraft is climbing above all selected altitudes. No LOC intercept is correct. Autoland is impossible at all.
What I am doing wrong ???
Is there any special setting to do or must I use another flight model...?
Many thanks and a happy new year...
Brian

[Bob Reed]

Hi Brian. Hmmm sounds like something is not setup right, or you have the default autopilot fighting with PM's. When you say it is commanding up, what altitude do you have set in your MCP? Do you have the AP ingauged? The aircraft still needs you to set the altitudes in the MCP. It will not command them automaticly unless you set it up to do that. As far as the ILS being out of range you don't get them untill about 10NM out. What are you using for radios? I will help, we can get this working. :)

[Olympic260]

Also do u have the latest builds of PM software?

Chris

[Brian]

Hi Chris,
Hi Bob,
At first...
many thanks for replying so fast.
When I intercepting the LOC within range (MCP SPEED selected 170, Flaps 5, APP ARM, A/P A & B selected) The LOC is captured (+/- half to one dot). The FMA is showing LOC green, GS ARMED white. So far so good...
MCP ALT is set to 3000, that is the intermediate altitude for the RWY 23 in HAM.
When approaching the GS there was no intersept. The FD commanded pitch up, the aircraft followed and begun to climb above the selected altitude.
Using the default 737 without PM MCP sofware, interception is normal but could be some more precisely.
By the way, what flight models are you using ?
Brian

[ekezz]

Interesting issue. Can you tell us something about the plan in the CDU/FMS. I wonder if you have set a runway extension like 12 miles out, this sometimes helps to get aligned in time. And just asking for the obvious, but do you have the runway selected including the radio settings?

Maybe you can upload the flight plans (MS-FS and CDU) to our File Library in the section Flight Plans. Then we can fly the plan and see what happens.

[Bob Reed]

Kester's idea is a good one. Will let us see what you are seeing or if it is specific to your setup.

[Brian]

Thanks,
I will work on it tomorrow..
keeping you advise.
Brian

[Olympic260]

.
By the way, what flight models are you using ?
Brian


I am using the PMDG Flight model with the PMDGvisual model. IMHO is the closest to the real


Chris

[Trevor Hale]

Brian,

One thing that you mentioned is that your Aircraft tries to pitch up when going to intercept.

Limitations with flightsim, make sure when your intercepting G/S you always below the G/S flying into it.

The autopilots generally always want to climb to intercept the G/S.

You probably already know this, just my tidbit on a possible easy elimination.

Trev

[Bob Reed]

Oh.. Good catch Trevor. I did not think of that. I just do it without thinking! You must be below GS. And around 45deg to the ILS. PM is not as picky about that but good practice.

[Brian]

Hello,
I still have this strange GS behaviour when intercepting. LOC will be intercepted normal and precise. When passing the GS the FD commands up A/T increases Thrust and the aircraft climbs up regardless of the altitude set on the MCP. LOC remains intercepted. I tried severals Builds of the PM GC and MCP. I don´t know whats going wrong. Maybe the MCP software itself or any other little adjust within the files...
During the test I intercepting below glide with low speed (Flap5, 170 Kias) To me it looks like the MCP initiates a G/A when intercepting the GS.
This behaviour is far away from any real aircraft characteristics. I hope I will fix it soon.
Brian

[Bob Reed]

Well Brian trust me, been using PM for years and that is not normal PM behavior. Something is interacting or trying to take back over the aircraft by the sounds of it. Is this with the stock AC? You are not trying to use the stock AP in any form are you? How are you interfacing with the PM MCP? Mouse? Keyboard? Hardware? Something is defently interfering with the PM MCP.

[Bob Reed]

Hi Brian just thought of something else. After you get LOC are you activating APP mode on the MCP?

[Brian]

Hi Bob,
my setup...
1. Server: FS 2004 using default 737, FSUIPC 3.71, WideFS 671, PM MCP software, CP USB MCP and L/R EFIS.
2. Client1: PM GC CAPT
2. Client2: PM GC F/O
4. Client3: PM GC EICAS, PM CDU, PM rCDU, PM Sounds
5. Client4: PM System (Phidget directly), PM GC Lower ENG page
All PCs running WinXP pro, the Network (TCP/IP) is running very fast and stable.
All functions on the EFIS units are working fast and without failures.
The GC PFD/ND on both sides are very fast and without interupts.
All WideFS Clients are set to ServerIPAddr=192,168.0.1
One qestion...
The PM MCP software is running on the server. So, there in no need to install Wide Client in the MCP software...
right?
All folders are shared...

[Bob Reed]

Brian, that is correct. The MCP being on the server it is using FSUPIC directly. And you are activating APP mode once you have ILS LOC right?

[Brian]

Bob,
The "pullup" on glide slope intercept accurs in both situations doesn´t matter whether VOR/LOC or APP is armed first.
For real approaches we use both. Sometimes we arm LOC only and when established we arm APP. That is the same I do in my cockpit.
The real logic is never to follow a GS when not established on the LOC.
I think that You are right. There is anything interacting with the MCP, or the FS default A/P is not bypassed correctly.
I dont know.
Many, many thanks for help!!!
If there is any interest in my project i will send some fotos...
I dont have a homepage, but here is my email...
brianbrn666@aol.com
Brian

[Bob Reed]

Brian... PLEASE send the photos to our gallery! There is always interest to see what other builders are doing! Pictures, pictures we never can get enough pictures!!

[767300]

Hi Brian,

Have you tried setting up the approach on the MCP, Once established on the GS, disengage AP A. Leave GS/APP engaged along with the PFs Loc. Follow the AFDS directions and fly her down manually. Also cross check your flap schedule.

Might be worth trying to eliminate the AP as the culprit. Dont know much about the 737 FS wise but maybe look at flight models by Posky or similar.

http://www.projectopensky.com/downloads-index.php


Hope you get it sorted.

Regards

James

[Brian]

Hi James,
tried it several times. Flew down the ILS beam manually, as soon I reengaged the FD it pulls up again. The command is comming fron the FD. LOC is o.k.
By the way...
The FS default A/P is working normal.
Strange thing...
So far, cuppled ILS is not working jet but my stickshaker is working very well.
Never the less, cockpit building is a very demanding hobby, and I love it...
Many thanks
Brian

[Bob Reed]

Brian.......WOW! Man you have a great looking project! If yuo guys have not seen it get over to the gallery and take a look. Where did you get those yokes?

[Brian]

Hi Bob,
these jokes are originals from a 727, but all the other stuff is from normal building shops like OBI. For example. The control column is made from rain discharge lines available ewerywhere for cheap.
For any questions...
Go ahead
Brian

[Brian]

Hello,
together with the PM Team we solved the problem concerning the GS intercept. There was an interfearance with ITRA USB Modules and FS A/P. When connected it inhibits negative values in the FS A/P. So if the PM MCP software is running, there is no way to intercept a GS.
The new driver supported by ITRA on their homepage will fix it.
Now everything is running fine.
Many thanks to Enrico and Jonathan from Project Magenta.
Without their help I would still fly non precision approaches only.
Brian

[ekezz]

Great Brian, Glad that is solved as it can be a real pain when you don't know what is wrong and many components are involved. Maybe other builders will benefit from the solution you have found together with the suppliers.