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wledzian
08-17-2011, 02:26 PM
Way back when I started seriously thinking about building a simpit, I was looking for a way to get FSX to output a true cylindrical or spherical projection. While not entirely successful, I did hit upon the method of using many vertical slices as an approximation, and to avoid the tedium of calculating the parameters for each window by hand, I created the original Windowmaker tool, discussed in this thread (http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/showthread.php/20216-Borders-on-windows-window-alignment-tool?highlight=).

My understanding of the math relating zoom to FOV was limited, resulting in windows that didn't quite align perfectly for low zoom levels (ie 210 in only 3 windows). I've since reverse-engineered the zoom equation, and the new version produces pixel-perfect alignment at both extremes of the zoom range and everywhere in-between.

(It uses VBA code to work its magic. Depending on your security settings, it may pop up a message or just not work. If it doesn't work, check your macro security settings. Feel free to view the code by pressing [alt-F11].)

Procedure:
Set up and save your flight with the aircraft and airport you want to use.
Open the .flt file in notepad or your favorite text editor.
Open WindowMaker.
Set the number of views and total FOV.
Click the "Go !" button.

Copy the window and camera list from column E and paste it over the [Window] and [Camera] definitions in your .flt file.
Save the .flt file.

Go back to FSX and load the saved flight.

WindowMaker_110817 (http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/downloads.php?do=file&id=469)

Extreme example of what it can do: 360 in 27 windows
http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=11513&stc=1

eyucel
12-03-2011, 02:51 AM
Thank you very much. You created a complete solution for a complex problem. I am glad I found out your file.

Airhogg
04-03-2012, 09:23 PM
Wow! This is really nice work. Thank you VERY much for posting this!

ghetto
05-01-2012, 06:20 AM
Thanks for the link to this I have run a couple of test and Iam getting very close..
6584
Iam having to use my work pc, not the 3 screen system at home but I just squished the window to get rclose to the width I use..
1,Is there a way to lose the black lines?..
2, Since I am using this for a helicopter If i want to achieve a higher height wize FOV by using maybe just 2 projectors what settings should I alter?

ghetto
05-01-2012, 07:05 AM
http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss181/ghettotige/higherfov.jpg

Ok even a little closer, by altering eyepoint using the FSX keyboard commands , shift + backspace and by stretching the fsx window down I was able to obtain this view which is much closer to what I want to achieve.. Of course this is all achedemic because when I try this on my 3 projector setup it will probably go all wrong.. Alsoi Iam sorry if this all seems rather remedial but searched many forums for the information to do this but never found a clear explanation, so Iam hoping this post will help others..

wledzian
05-01-2012, 12:45 PM
Unfortunately, I'm not aware of any way to get rid of the window borders. However, when you use this configuration with your projectors, the borders will essentially be just a line of unused pixels at each edge. Once you align your projectors, the black line won't be there.

How are you driving your projectors? Can you run them in portrait mode? If so, you could use all three projectors and get a drastically increased vertical FOV.
If that works for you, be aware that since your windows will now be taller than they are wide, you'll want to set WideViewAspect=True.

No worries about not finding anything elsewhere. I created WindowMaker precisely because I couldn't find any reliable information anywhere else either.

ghetto
05-01-2012, 04:45 PM
6587
So tried it on my home system with the 3 projectors in the 3820x720 format and loaded the altered .flt file but it came out wrong, 3 very separate views not aligning at all. I tried both aspect true and false with no improvement. Do I need to do something in the tool so it knows I have such a wide aspect?

wledzian
05-01-2012, 05:49 PM
That looks like your intent is to have 3 90 windows in landscape for 270 total, but the images look like the vertical dimension is constrained to 90 instead, as it would be when Wideviewaspect=True. This would produce images ~116 wide.

Please double-check that your Wideviewaspect setting is correct.

Your settings should be:
Wideviewaspect=False
Zoom=0.301941960595019

If that doesn't fix your issue, please send me a copy of your window configuration text via private forum message.

Kennair
05-01-2012, 06:16 PM
1,Is there a way to lose the black lines?..


Hi Ghetto,

Image warping software such as "Warpalizer", "Sol7" and I believe "Immersive Display Lite" can remove those black lines. They have an option to remove the 2 pixel border which results in a seemless blend.

Hope that helps,

Ken.

ghetto
05-03-2012, 04:58 AM
That looks like your intent is to have 3 90 windows in landscape for 270 total, but the images look like the vertical dimension is constrained to 90 instead, as it would be when Wideviewaspect=True. This would produce images ~116 wide.

Please double-check that your Wideviewaspect setting is correct.

Your settings should be:
Wideviewaspect=False
Zoom=0.301941960595019

If that doesn't fix your issue, please send me a copy of your window configuration text via private forum message.

You were correct for some reason my .cfg file did not take the wide aspect=False command, once I rebooted all was well. Thanks for a great tool.. Frame rates took a bit of a hit so I will have to look into that..

ghetto
05-05-2012, 09:48 AM
Still struggling here, I tried my AMD card and could not get 3d to work, went back to my nvidia card and that has to run 3 projectors to obtain 3d and surround and unfortunately mvidi a does not allow 3d to work in portrait mode so thats out also.. So what I appear to be stuck with is a very long but narrow image.. Can I alter the zoom level in window maker or is that fixed, it creates windows with a zoom of 40 but 30 would be better,if I try to do it manually in fsx in throws out the alignment in the side windows..
I have also noticed that even just 3 windows is killing my frame rates from 45fps to 15 fps..

wledzian
05-06-2012, 12:49 PM
WindowMaker gives the correct zoom for the window configuration you enter. If you want it to give you a wider zoom without misalignment, define a wider field of view.
Note that FSX will not set a zoom level below 0.3. It will not give an error on lower values, it just uses the larger of 0.3 or your defined zoom level.

devsim
05-31-2012, 05:39 AM
Hi wledzian,

Thanks for the window maker tool. It gives some good results at first. I use a 135 deg FoV with 3 LCD screens, split over multiple instances of Prepar3d. I simply use the rotation and zoom values of your tool output.

It looks aligned very well in flight and for all objects (e.g. terminal buildings) in a certain distance. However, of the runway markings (centerline, touchdown zone markings, taxi lines) itself, it's off.

Any ideas appreciated :)

wledzian
05-31-2012, 10:23 AM
In further reply to Ghetto regarding frame rate hit:
There are Three reasons that you see a hit in frame rate:
1: There is a wider field of view. This means more geometry, therefore more processor load.
2: There are more windows. This means an extra frustum culling (get rid of the geometry you don't need) for each window, thus more processor load. This should be a very minor impact.
3: (this is the big one) Unless your 2D panel is active, FSX must have at least one full-screen window. If you initially saved your flight without the 2d panel, there will be one fullscreen window hidden behind the rest. The solution to that is to save your flight with the 2d panel enabled, modify the .flt file with the WindowMaker information, load the modified flight, then shrink the panel and stick it somewhere unobtrusive. Don't close the 2d panel.

In reply to devsim regarding misalignment:
Please provide some clarification:
How are the runway markings 'off'? Do they match up but bend at the window edges, or do they not match up? If they match up but bend, this is normal, and there's nothing that can be done about it without warping software. If they don't match up, then there's some other issue - you may want to check that the rotation is set only in the horizontal plane, and that you have set Wideviewaspect=False in fsx.cfg.
Since you're using monitors, have you allowed for bezel correction?

OmniAtlas
06-20-2012, 08:35 AM
Do you guys think this software would work well for a one projector system and a dome/curve surface (such as jdome? http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/showthread.php/22929-jDome-3d-projection-screen )

wledzian
06-20-2012, 10:10 AM
Yes you can use it for jDome, but it won't get you much beyond what you'd get with a single zoomed-out window. To get a true perspective-correct 180 on the jDome, you need to use warping software. WindowMaker can set up the multiple windows required, but it doesn't perform any warping.

OmniAtlas
06-21-2012, 01:08 AM
Will give this a go tonight with immersive display lite. I don't have a dome or a projector yet but I can see the potential for a low cost immersion system.

OmniAtlas
06-23-2012, 08:19 AM
I've managed to get immersive display lite running with your window maker program. Unfortunately there is quite a substantial frame rate drop (as expected) and image sharpness diminishes with warping turned on. Oh well...

pirata1906
07-08-2012, 09:08 PM
hi there
first of all congrats for your excelent tool, i love it. i wonder if you can help me reach my goal: i have 2 monitors full hd resolution on a gtx570 running on win 7, what would be the windowmaker code to achieve this: 2 monitors = 2 views centered but with no virtual cockpit i mean only cockpit view. i dont mind the monitors bezel in the midle, i 'll be running 2d panel on a second computer. is this possible? please help me i'm having a hard time to make it work. tkx

wledzian
07-09-2012, 10:40 AM
Pirata, can you clarify a bit? If I understand correctly, you want two views without the virtual cockpit showing. You also want these windows set up so that the straight-ahead point is in the bezel.

This is not difficult. Simply set the total FOV that you want, and set the number of windows to 2. If you want to compensate for the bezel, you'll need to do that manually by adding or subtracting an apppropriate amount of rotation to each window.
In order to get rid of the virtual cockpit, you'll need to open the aircraft.cfg file and comment out the interior declaration (just add '//' to the start of the line).

pirata1906
07-09-2012, 02:51 PM
i cant get it to work, i see two runways one in each view but i only want to see the runway centered in the bezel "like left side of runway monitor 1 and right side monitor 2". can you please help me? can you send me an example code? thank you very much

MarkL
07-22-2012, 11:10 AM
Is there something I have to do different? I have a TH2G with a resolution of 5040x1024 across 3 21" monitors and attempting a FOV of 180 deg. With FSX windowed and constrained to the center screen and it looks perfect only, but when full screen (alt-ent) or maximized (windowed), it doesn't line up (stretched). I also set WideView to false, but windows like (REX Ess) behind kept flickering thru the fsx window, doesn't do it with Wideview set to true.

** Update **
Rebooted everything and started over. Seems to work now even with WideView=False.
Should this work for monitors, or do I have wait until I get my projectors, build a screen and warp it?
When banking with this setup or acceleration or decel, the alignment will go off. It would be nice until I get the projectors etc to not use the single window stretched across all 3 which gives the Fish eye effect.

Mark

wledzian
07-23-2012, 10:40 AM
If the alignment looks correct when the windows are taller than they are wide (as they would be when three windows are constrained to a single monitor), then FSX is still running in Wideviewaspect=TRUE mode. If you've changed this value in the FSX.cfg located in your user directory (NOT the one in the FSX root folder), you've done it in the right place, and may just need to restart FSX for it to take effect.

This should work fine for monitors, with the exception that you need to calculate the FOV and offset manually if you want to account for the bezels. Here's the basics for that:
Calculate the -actual- FOV that each monitor will show.
FOV = 2 atan(Width / (2 * distance))
Calculate the -actual- angular position of each of the side monitors.
Run Windowmaker for three windows, with a total FOV equal to 3 times the -actual- fov covered by each monitor.
-Manually- revise the offset for the left and right windows to the actual offset angles of your monitors.

During banking, the straight horizon line should match position with, but will not match angle with, the horizon line on the adjacent monitor. This is normal, and should look perfectly OK when the monitors and your head are all in the right position.

During any acceleration (including pitch, roll, yaw), the head acceleration built in to the camera system moves the cameras, and things stop lining up perfectly. The only way to 'fix' this is to turn off head acceleration. I set up windowmaker to inclued 'use momentumeffect=NO', however that doesn't seem to work. You need to turn it off within FSX.cfg by setting the head acceleration values to zero. I'm sure you can find a reference online to tell you how to do this.

MarkL
07-28-2012, 09:40 AM
Thanks alot for the information. The bezel calculation helped alot.

ddimm
08-16-2012, 03:13 PM
In further reply to Ghetto regarding frame rate hit:

3: (this is the big one) Unless your 2D panel is active, FSX must have at least one full-screen window. If you initially saved your flight without the 2d panel, there will be one fullscreen window hidden behind the rest. The solution to that is to save your flight with the 2d panel enabled, modify the .flt file with the WindowMaker information, load the modified flight, then shrink the panel and stick it somewhere unobtrusive. Don't close the 2d panel.


Hello wledzian :
First, thank you for such a fantastic tool. You have save me countless hours of trying to get this right.

I am testing the window maker on three monitors before I hook it up to my projectors. I did notice a pretty big drop in performance as well (to be expected) but don't understand the part about the 2d panel.

Following the directions, I saved my flight in 2D panel mode, copied and pasted the windowmaker data over the .flt file. When I run it, I do not have the 2d panel present in the three windows. Should it be there? I did notice a fourth window behind the other three zoomed to 255. Did I do everything correctly as far as performance and display?

What is the purpose to have the 2D on the screen and not close it?

Thank you again!
-Daniel

wledzian
08-16-2012, 05:31 PM
Unfortunately, this method of expanding the view does produce a performance hit, as FSX now has to perform the geometry operations four times, instead of once. I will say I'm slightly surprised at the extent of the frame rate drop, as I haven't noticed anything near as severe as the 50% drop that some users are reporting.

ddimm, the purpose of the 2d panel is to get FSX to stop forcing at least one window to fullscreen. I may be missing something in terms of a setting that is turned on with my config, but is not on in yours.

Try this:
- Resize one or all of the top windows by dragging the top or bottom edge to make the fourth window visible. (DON'T drag a side edge - you want to be able to resize it correctly later!).
- Make the fourth window active by clicking on it.
- press [1] to activate the 2d panel.
- Manually resize the fourth window. Smaller is better.
- Manually resize the 2d panel. Smaller is better. (note: you'll only be able to grab a panel edge that's not transparent.)
- Stick the 2D panel somewhere unobtrusive.
- Manually resize the three top windows by dragging their top and bottom edges back to the top and bottom of the screen.
- In the Views menu, select the 2d window to make it active and get rid of the white border on one of the 3d windows.

I hope that helps.
-Enjoy!

ddimm
08-19-2012, 05:20 PM
[QUOTE=wledzian;133837]- In the Views menu, select the 2d window to make it active and get rid of the white border on one of the 3d windows.
-QUOTE]
Hello wledzian and thanks for the detailed information.

I have followed your directions and testing the new window frames now. I now have a tiny 2d panel present on my screen an repositioned in the corner.

My question on your final step, every time I do the "view menu" step it changes the window with the 2d panel resting on top to a different view and the zoom at 100%.
I'm not sure what I am doing wrong...
Thanks,
Daniel

wledzian
08-20-2012, 10:12 AM
In the view menu, there is an option to select the view you want in the current window, as well as a list of the windows you've got open. It sounds like you're selecting a different view within the current window. You want to select from the list of open windows, to make the background window active.

ddimm
08-23-2012, 12:49 PM
Thanks again for the detailed instructions. It seems to have helped! Is there any reason NOT to set the 2D panel to 100% transparent in the settings menu once you have all of this set up correctly. That way you are not "hiding it" somewhere outside of your field of view?
Regards,
Daniel

wledzian
08-23-2012, 01:02 PM
Yes, there is a reason. Unfortunately, for any values other than 0% transparent, FSX will set the related window to full-screen, eliminating any frame rate benefit you may get from using a reduced-size background window.

OmniAtlas
08-25-2012, 02:05 AM
Your tool might be very useful when the Oculus Rift hits in December (stereoscopic view required).

hark40
08-28-2012, 08:45 AM
Hello,

Thanks to Wledzian for the tool, it works perfect!

I wonder if there is any news about to remove the black border around each window. I try to align the projectors but the black lines never disappear.

Do you know about if Nthusim will remove this pixels?

Maybe, it would be possible to use your tool to create only 1 window for my 180 Horaizontal FOV using 3 projectors?


Best Regards, <!-- google_ad_section_end -->

wledzian
08-29-2012, 03:01 PM
I've tried to reply to this post several times, please forgive me if multiple replies show up.

There is no news on removing the window borders. I've asked around in several forums and at Microsoft, and judging by the absolute silence, there is not a way to do this natively.

NThusim has a 'crop borders' feature, but from what I can tell, this only removes the GUI frame that Windows (the OS) adds to an undocked view.

I've tried NThusim (demo) and currently use a trial license of Sol7. Sol7 does have a feature which allows you to apply additional warping to your image beyond what is used to correct the projection to the screen. This can be used to eliminate the borders and generate a true cylindrical or spherical projection from multiple perspective windows. The only downside to Sol7 is the commercial pricetag.

My tool cannot be used to create 1 window of 180, because no version of MS Flight Sim is capable of doing so. Flight Sim uses a perspective projection; it is not geometrically possible to create a 180 FOV in a single window. Imagine the projection as a window. If you want to see a larger field of view, you can move closer to the window. However, as you get closer, you see more of the FOV through an increasingly smaller part of the window, and the scenery towards the edges passes through the window at a more oblique angle. If you extend this back to your monitor, the result is that imagery gets compressed towards the center and stretched towards the edges. Practically speaking, anything over ~120 starts to become unusable.
Taking it to the limit of what FSX can do, if you use a single window spread across three 16x9 projectors or monitors side-by-side, WideViewAspect = True (clamps your narrow FOV, in this case vertical), and set zoom = 0.3 (the smallest value that FSX will use), your total FOV will be ~158, ~120 of which will be crammed into the center screen, with each side screen showing a very streched ~19

hark40
08-30-2012, 03:33 AM
Hello,

Many Thanks for the explanation! It has lot of sense.

I will try ImmersaViewWarp because Sol7 was superseded.

Many Thanks again!

cestlavie2010
09-02-2012, 05:36 PM
ok..just reading this..will this also work for me?

main pc 3x 27" on th2go but 1st screen about 15deg angle and 2nd screen center and 3rd screen about 15deg agle what is my fov?
left pc 2x27" on th2go 90deg left
right pc 2x27" on th2go 90 deg right

2 person cockpit so I sit on the left and my copiloot on the right ?

currently using Wideview software...

will this work out for me you think....tommorrow I will be testing....

wledzian
09-04-2012, 04:39 PM
airberlin, it may be useful for your setup, but you'll have to do some things manually. Namely, Windowmaker doesn't account for bezels, nor does it account for non-centered arrangements. You'll have to do the math for the actual per-window FOV manually, use Windowmaker to calculate the zoom and generate the view config text blocks, then manually re-enter the correct yaw rotation for each window. If you read back through this thread, I have given instructions for those steps already.

cestlavie2010
09-04-2012, 04:54 PM
thanks...it worked out pretty good...allthough my performance is very bad...50% less 8fps at EHAM aerosoft. I cannot fly with this...allthough pc is 4.6 ghz and gx580 just 3x 3d window is too much...

Wonder how other people do this...no addons ? or very low resolutions ? i have 3x 1920x1080

wledzian
09-04-2012, 05:45 PM
I get ~10-15 fps when flying through the mountains. I usually avoid heavy autogen. I have three projectors running at 1280x800 on a TH2Go, plus one monitor running at 1280x1024.
My specs:
Q8200 (core 2 quad) at 2.33 ghz
2 GB ram
ATI Radeon 4760HD video card

This is by no means a powerhouse, but it delivers usable, if not stellar, frame rates.

As mentioned several times, you need to make sure that the background window is the 2d cockpit with the instrument panel displayed somewhere and not transparent, or you will have a fullscreen window in the background, eating up half your frame rate.

choffmann
09-22-2012, 05:40 PM
Hello wledzian

nice tool, thank you!
What are your thoughts about frame rate performances? Do you believe, there will be any kind of PC configuration that will give us framerates above 20? Or is this an inherent problem of MSFS itself that will never be superseded?

Chris

wledzian
10-05-2012, 01:56 PM
Sorry I've been away so long - just added a new member to the family, don't have much spare time.

Regarding frame rate performance, FSX is CPU-bound by the geometry processing being done CPU-side, single-threaded. Every extra window you use is that much more work that FSX is doing on the CPU. I don't think we'll see a machine that shows stellar performance for multiple windows and high settings with FSX, especially as CPUs are trending towards more cores instead of higher speeds. Prepar3d is, however, doing lots of work to convert the FSX core to multithread.

hercules
10-15-2012, 12:47 PM
Hi,

first off all many thanks for the amazing tool.

I use a TH2GO wir 3 24" monitors. I want to use 150 degrees FOV with 3 monitors (1920x1050).

I cant get this FOV with 3 windows. The Alignment is always totally wrong.

I have to use at least 6 windows to get a fine alignment, with 240 degrees FOV as well.

I am not really happy with the black lines, because i already have the frames from the monitors.

What i am making wrong? Is there ana limitations with 3 windows?

Would be nice if you can help me:-)

Kind Regards

THomas


Addition: I tried many combinations. As soon as i go over 100 degrees FOV with 3 windows, the alignment goes extreme out of sync. Until 100 degrees all is fine.
I am totally confused

wledzian
10-16-2012, 01:47 PM
On first glance, it sounds like you've set WIDEVIEWASPECT=TRUE. In this mode, FSX constrains the narrow window dimension. When you use 3 windows, this is vertical, when we want to constrain horizontal. With 6 windows, horizontal becomes shorter, and things line up. To get it to work with 3 windows, just sew WIDEVIEWASPECT=FALSE.

HondaCop
11-04-2012, 01:22 AM
Thanks for such a wonderful tool!! Just wondering though... Will this tool also work with FS9? If no, what needs to be adjusted to make it work with FS9? Thanks!

wledzian
11-27-2012, 01:00 AM
Sorry for the delayed response - for some reason, I've been having a hard time getting to MyCockpit through Comcast.

No, it doesn't work with FS9. FS9's camera system is significantly different. In addition, FS9 always sets the narrower resolution - there's no way to tell it that you want to define the wider resolution. You can do the calculations by hand to determine the vertical FOV for a given desired horizontal FOV, but there's still the issue that FS9 zooms in discrete steps, not smoothly like FSX.

So far, my best recommendation for FS9 is to get close manually, set all three windows to the same zoom, then use mouse-look to rotate the left and right windows to fine-tune the alignment.

Spencer
01-21-2013, 07:15 AM
Hello wledzian ,thanks for your tool . I used it to make 3 window 225FOV visuals based on 1 comp. , matrox th2g ,3 short-throw mitsubishi ew331u-st projectors. For image correction i used immersive display lite software. I did manage to perfectly correct and align 3 windows ,and i even manage to get rid of black borders between the windows. Althought i have noticed that even if image is perfectly aligned ...there are some issues especially on the runway lines are discontinuous and so far they match but are distorted after the matching line..and in the flight when the plane banks - the horizon distorts too ..if you understand what i mean....here are some pics so you could see the trouble....

7449
7450
7451

My question is: should i continue play with the .flt file to find a perfect configuration or its useless??? althought i heared that there are warping software that corrects this distortion ..if so how they do it?

wledzian
01-21-2013, 11:36 AM
I can't see the attachments, but I'm pretty sure I know exactly what you mean.

FSX produces standard perspective projections. Straight lines in space will be straight lines on the screen. Unfortunately, this means that these lines will be at different angles when viewed in different directions. Here's a thought experiment - think only of the horizon for a moment, and imagine that the plane is in a level banking turn. On a perspective projection, the horizon will be a straight line at an angle. But on a true spherical or cylindrical projection that wraps 180, the horizon will be horizontal but low on one side, horizontal but high on the other side, and angled in the center. Overall, the horizon will trace a sinusoidal curve across the image. For a visual, take a look at the screenshot I included in the first post of this thread, showing a 360 view. This image is composed of 27 perspective-projection slices, so if you take a close look at the horizon particularly at the 90 point (the peak on the right side), you'll see that it is still composed of straight line segments.

If your edges line up, you're done messing with the .flt file. There's nothing more you can do from that side. There is software that corrects for this by allowing you to apply a custom warp to correct the perspective map to a spherical map in addition to the standard screen alignment warp, however this software typically retails for many thousands of dollars.

Spencer
01-21-2013, 12:52 PM
Thanks wledzian,i will upload pics later,as i understood immersive display lite does not provide correction to a spherical map...could you pls give me some recommendations on these softwares which will allow me to do that ???
And one more question: how about x-plane pro? I saw it has an option like " cylinder prjection" but can't afford to use sinde i have the home version, does it provide spherical perspective??
Thanks a lot for your time..

wledzian
01-21-2013, 01:07 PM
If you've got the budget, Immersaview Warp provides the functionality.

My understanding of X-Plane is that it will always be one machine per visual channel, and Austin has no intention of changing that. For multiple channels, you will need multiple computers, each with its own license. If you want to use the spherical or cylindrical modes for more than the 10-minute demo period, you'll need to purchase a pro dongle for each machine as well.

ddimm
01-23-2013, 04:20 PM
You may also want to look at Immersive Display Pro by Fly Elise NG. Very affordable and will correct for any shape of the screen you have. I use it and can personally recommend it for use with flight sims.

Here is a video of Xplane on a curved screen:
Cessna 152 II simulator with cylindrical screen projection (http://fly.elise-ng.net/index.php/news/96-newvideocylindricalscreen)

WildBob53
01-28-2013, 12:43 AM
Wledzian,

Thanks for this wonderful tool. I am using Prepar3d with an ATI Eyefinity triple screen setup. I have 3 1920x1080 screens, landscape, so I have set WideviewAspect=False. My field of view is 135 degrees, with screens 3. Instead of getting 3 screens with 3 different views, I get 3 screens with 3 of the same view. What do you think I am doing wrong? Thanks for your time.

Best regards

WildBob53
01-29-2013, 12:59 AM
Wledzian,

I found the problem. It appears that Prepar3d uses the camera.cfg camera information with the information in the flat file. It was setting the 2d camera as the default instead of VC. I wasn't able to get it to let me choose the VC, but I was able to copy rotation and zoom. Thanks.

Wild

OmniAtlas
02-10-2013, 02:46 AM
How do you disable the virtual cockpit? Everytime I open up the saved .flt it loads up with the NGX VC.

APAK
06-26-2013, 02:16 PM
Hi wledzian ,

Look the photo attached and let me know how I can correct that alignment , please note that the windows are aligned (upper part of the window ). Trying to move the eyepoint ( shift+backspace ) of the center window will solve that problem ?

Thanks and regards

Alberto

wledzian
06-26-2013, 02:51 PM
No - don't move the eyepoint, that will just introduce more issues. My first guess is that your pitch rotation is incorrect in the left window.

Are the three windows the same size? Are the zoom levels identical? Are the rotations correct?
Please post the zoom, translation, rotation and ScreenUniCoords for each of your windows.

APAK
06-26-2013, 03:19 PM
No - don't move the eyepoint, that will just introduce more issues. My first guess is that your pitch rotation is incorrect in the left window.

Are the three windows the same size? Are the zoom levels identical? Are the rotations correct?
Please post the zoom, translation, rotation and ScreenUniCoords for each of your windows.

Hi wledzian,

Yes , the three windows have the same size , I have used the Windowmaker considering 135 and 3 views .See below what I am using.


<TBODY>
</SPAN>
<TBODY>
WindowMaker tool</SPAN>


[Window.1]</SPAN>





Order=0</SPAN>


Notes:</SPAN>


Active=True</SPAN>


Universal coordinate space is </SPAN>


Undocked=False</SPAN>


8192</SPAN>
wide</SPAN>

Maximized=False</SPAN>


6144</SPAN>
high</SPAN>

ScreenUniCoords=4, 4, 1, 1</SPAN>





CurrentCamera={B1386D92-4782-4682-A137-738E25D1BAB5}</SPAN>


Zoom = (34.6) * (Pi/180) / (2 * tan(FOV / 2))</SPAN>





(when FOV is expressed in Radians)</SPAN>


[Camera.1.1]</SPAN>


If windows are wider than they are tall, set Wideviewaspect=FALSE</SPAN>

Guid={B1386D92-4782-4682-A137-738E25D1BAB5}</SPAN>


If windows are taller than they are wide, set Wideviewaspect=TRUE</SPAN>

Zoom=255</SPAN>





Translation=0, 0, 0</SPAN>


Number of windows (an odd number is recommended)</SPAN>

Rotation=-90, 0, 0</SPAN>


3</SPAN>








[Window.2]</SPAN>


Total Horizontal FOV</SPAN>


Order=2</SPAN>


135</SPAN>


Active=False</SPAN>





Undocked=False</SPAN>


Camera GUIDs</SPAN>


Maximized=False</SPAN>


C95EAB58-9E4A-4E2A-A34C-D8D9D948F078</SPAN>
Virtual Cockpit</SPAN>

ScreenUniCoords=1, 0, 2731, 6144</SPAN>


B1386D92-4782-4682-A137-738E25D1BAB5</SPAN>
2D Cockpit</SPAN>

CurrentCamera={C95EAB58-9E4A-4E2A-A34C-D8D9D948F078}</SPAN>


Intermediate calculations:</SPAN>





FOV Constant</SPAN>
34.6</SPAN>

[Camera.2.1]</SPAN>


FOV per window, degrees:</SPAN>
45</SPAN>

Guid={C95EAB58-9E4A-4E2A-A34C-D8D9D948F078}</SPAN>


Zoom factor</SPAN>
0.728952376</SPAN>

Zoom=0.301941960595019</SPAN>


UCS units per window</SPAN>
2730.666667</SPAN>

Translation=0, 0, 0</SPAN>


UCS units rounded down</SPAN>
2730</SPAN>

Rotation=0, -90, 0</SPAN>


Total UCS width</SPAN>
8190</SPAN>




Remainder</SPAN>
2</SPAN>

[Window.3]</SPAN>


unused border on left side</SPAN>
1</SPAN>

Order=3</SPAN>





Active=False</SPAN>


file:///C:\Users\AKunzel\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\clip_image001.emzFalse Pict </SPAN>
<TBODY>


</TBODY>



Undocked=False</SPAN>





Maximized=False</SPAN>





ScreenUniCoords=2731, 0, 2731, 6144</SPAN>





CurrentCamera={C95EAB58-9E4A-4E2A-A34C-D8D9D948F078}</SPAN>











[Camera.3.1]</SPAN>





Guid={C95EAB58-9E4A-4E2A-A34C-D8D9D948F078}</SPAN>





Zoom=0.301941960595019</SPAN>





Translation=0, 0, 0</SPAN>





Rotation=0, 0, 0</SPAN>











[Window.4]</SPAN>





Order=4</SPAN>





Active=False</SPAN>





Undocked=False</SPAN>





Maximized=False</SPAN>





ScreenUniCoords=5461, 0, 2731, 6144</SPAN>





CurrentCamera={C95EAB58-9E4A-4E2A-A34C-D8D9D948F078}</SPAN>











[Camera.4.1]</SPAN>





Guid={C95EAB58-9E4A-4E2A-A34C-D8D9D948F078}</SPAN>





Zoom=0.301941960595019</SPAN>





Translation=0, 0, 0</SPAN>





Rotation=0, 90, 0</SPAN>







</TBODY><COLGROUP><COL><COL><COL><COL></COLGROUP>

Thanks and regards

APAK


</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>





</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>





</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>





</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>





</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>





</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>





</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>





</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>

</TBODY><COLGROUP><COL></COLGROUP>


<TBODY>
</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>





</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>





</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>





</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>





</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>





</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>





</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>





</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>


</SPAN>

</TBODY><COLGROUP><COL></COLGROUP>

wledzian
06-26-2013, 05:02 PM
**REVISED**
The zoom value shown in column C is correct, but it has not carried over to column E, nor did the rotation value. Did you click "Go"?

You SHOULD have the following result:


<COLGROUP><COL style="WIDTH: 305pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 14848" width=406><TBODY>
[Window.1]


Order=0


Active=True


Undocked=False


Maximized=False


ScreenUniCoords=4, 4, 50, 50


CurrentCamera={B1386D92-4782-4682-A137-738E25D1BAB5}





[Camera.1.1]


Guid={B1386D92-4782-4682-A137-738E25D1BAB5}


Zoom=128


Translation=0, 0, 0


Rotation=-90, 0, 0


Momentumeffect=No





[Window.2]


Order=2


Active=False


Undocked=False


Maximized=False


ScreenUniCoords=1, 0, 2731, 6144


CurrentCamera={C95EAB58-9E4A-4E2A-A34C-D8D9D948F078}





[Camera.2.1]


Guid={C95EAB58-9E4A-4E2A-A34C-D8D9D948F078}


Zoom=0.728952376318018


Translation=0, 0, 0


Rotation=0, -45, 0


Momentumeffect=No





[Window.3]


Order=3


Active=False


Undocked=False


Maximized=False


ScreenUniCoords=2731, 0, 2731, 6144


CurrentCamera={C95EAB58-9E4A-4E2A-A34C-D8D9D948F078}





[Camera.3.1]


Guid={C95EAB58-9E4A-4E2A-A34C-D8D9D948F078}


Zoom=0.728952376318018


Translation=0, 0, 0


Rotation=0, 0, 0


Momentumeffect=No





[Window.4]


Order=4


Active=False


Undocked=False


Maximized=False


ScreenUniCoords=5461, 0, 2731, 6144


CurrentCamera={C95EAB58-9E4A-4E2A-A34C-D8D9D948F078}





[Camera.4.1]


Guid={C95EAB58-9E4A-4E2A-A34C-D8D9D948F078}


Zoom=0.728952376318018


Translation=0, 0, 0


Rotation=0, 45, 0


Momentumeffect=No

</TBODY>

APAK
06-27-2013, 06:41 AM
**REVISED**
The zoom value shown in column C is correct, but it has not carried over to column E, nor did the rotation value. Did you click "Go"?

You SHOULD have the following result:


<TBODY>
[Window.1]



Order=0



Active=True



Undocked=False



Maximized=False



ScreenUniCoords=4, 4, 50, 50



CurrentCamera={B1386D92-4782-4682-A137-738E25D1BAB5}






[Camera.1.1]



Guid={B1386D92-4782-4682-A137-738E25D1BAB5}



Zoom=128



Translation=0, 0, 0



Rotation=-90, 0, 0



Momentumeffect=No






[Window.2]



Order=2



Active=False



Undocked=False



Maximized=False



ScreenUniCoords=1, 0, 2731, 6144



CurrentCamera={C95EAB58-9E4A-4E2A-A34C-D8D9D948F078}






[Camera.2.1]



Guid={C95EAB58-9E4A-4E2A-A34C-D8D9D948F078}



Zoom=0.728952376318018



Translation=0, 0, 0



Rotation=0, -45, 0



Momentumeffect=No






[Window.3]



Order=3



Active=False



Undocked=False



Maximized=False



ScreenUniCoords=2731, 0, 2731, 6144



CurrentCamera={C95EAB58-9E4A-4E2A-A34C-D8D9D948F078}






[Camera.3.1]



Guid={C95EAB58-9E4A-4E2A-A34C-D8D9D948F078}



Zoom=0.728952376318018



Translation=0, 0, 0



Rotation=0, 0, 0



Momentumeffect=No






[Window.4]



Order=4



Active=False



Undocked=False



Maximized=False



ScreenUniCoords=5461, 0, 2731, 6144



CurrentCamera={C95EAB58-9E4A-4E2A-A34C-D8D9D948F078}






[Camera.4.1]



Guid={C95EAB58-9E4A-4E2A-A34C-D8D9D948F078}



Zoom=0.728952376318018



Translation=0, 0, 0



Rotation=0, 45, 0



Momentumeffect=No


</TBODY>


Hi Wledzian,

Thanks for your help , now with your above numbers the views are aligned . Do you have a windowmaker revised ? I used windowmaker 110817.

Regards

Alberto

wledzian
06-27-2013, 12:05 PM
Glad to hear the new numbers worked for you.

110817 is the latest released version; that's what I used to get the numbers I posted yesterday. It looks like the calculated values in column C are correct, but they're not carried over to column E. The carry-over only happens when you click "GO", so I suspect that either you didn't click "GO", or you have macros disabled and the button didn't do anything.

paullu
07-28-2013, 11:52 AM
Thank you wledzian (http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/member.php?u=9278) ! Windowmaker is perfect!

The only problem for me is that it hits performance.

I can only get 13-15 fps in cities. (i5 + HD7870). Maybe the HD7970 will make the 180 3 monitors (3 x 1920x1200 eyefinity) setting playable.

wledzian
07-29-2013, 04:14 PM
If you read back a bit through this thread, there is a way to get rid of the full-screen view hiding behind the others; It's my understanding that this can help with the frame rate issue a little bit.

paullu
07-30-2013, 04:06 AM
If you read back a bit through this thread, there is a way to get rid of the full-screen view hiding behind the others; It's my understanding that this can help with the frame rate issue a little bit.

Thank you very much Wledzian!I've minimized the full-screen view and the FPS is between 20-30 in KSEA! (GEX+REX+FSGlobal)

I still have some problems. Maybe you can help:

1 I can only use this setting in windowed mode. Can't change the size of the fourth view in full screen mode.

2 After I set up and save my flight with the aircraft and airport, I overwrite the [Window] and [Camera] in the .flt file with the data provided by WindowMaker. I then went back to FSX, but the saved file disappeared. Now I can only start the saved flight by running the flt file in C:\Documents and Settings\YourUserName\My Documents\Flight Simulator X Files. Now the problem is that as soon as the programme finished loading, the airplane crash on the runway.
The only solution for this is to use the default location in the "free flight section" and revise this saved flight. After loading it from the flt file, the plane will appear in the sky above the ocean (some where in the pacific) . I can then select any airport from the menu.

3 The mouse cursor is flashing all the time. I can use it to click the buttons on the instrument panel.

Here is my setup:Dell 2412m (1920x1200) x 3, Eyefinity landscape mode

paullu
07-30-2013, 04:23 AM
8058
8059
8060
8061

wledzian
07-30-2013, 02:01 PM
In fullscreen mode, FSX forces the 2D outside view to fullscreen unless an instrument panel is present. I haven't done this myself in a while, but bsed on my (often faulty) memory, here's the workaround:

- Create and save a flight in 2D cockpit mode. Shrink (but DO NOT CLOSE) the panel. Save the flight again.
- Open the saved .flt file in notepad or your favorite text editor. Find the [Window.1] section.
- Open a new blank text editor window.

- Run WindowMaker for your desired configuration. For this example, I'm going to assume you're using 3 windows.
- Copy the text in column [E] to the blank text editor window.
- Replace the GUID listed for [Camera.2.1] with the GUID listed for [Camera.1.1] (FSX expects at least one 2d window)
- Delete the sections for [Window.1] and [Camera.1.1]
- Re-identify the remaining window and camera sections so that [Window.2] becomes [Window.1], [Camera.2.1] becomes [Camera.1.1] and so on.

At this point, you now have three defined windows, one of which is tied to the 2d cockpit camera.
- Copy the camera and window definitions that you've edited into your saved .flt file to replace the [Window.1] and [Camera.1.1] sections.
- Save your .flt file

-Open your .flt file in FSX.


I have no idea what is causing the other two issues.

Let me know how it goes!

paullu
07-31-2013, 03:22 AM
......................................

paullu
07-31-2013, 03:28 AM
Thank wledzian!

I've solved tyhe third problem by installing the Panel Fixes/Adjustments for Triple-Wide screen resolutions. Now I can see the 2D panels.

I've revised the flt file according to your suggestions:

Now the view on the left screen became the background view, expanding to the other two monitors. I can't adjust its size. Also this view does not line up with the other two monitors....


[Window.1]
Order=2
Active=False
Undocked=False
Maximized=False
ScreenUniCoords=1, 0, 2731, 6144
CurrentCamera={C95EAB58-9E4A-4E2A-A34C-D8D9D948F078}
[Camera.1.1]
Guid={B1386D92-4782-4682-A137-738E25D1BAB5}
Zoom=.522978816687533
Translation=0, 0, 0
Rotation=0, -60, 0
[Camera.1.2]
Guid={C95EAB58-9E4A-4E2A-A34C-D8D9D948F078}
Zoom=0.69999998807907104
Translation=0, 0, 0
Rotation=0, 0, 0
[Camera.1.3]
Guid={195EAB58-9E4A-1E2A-A34C-A8D9D948F078}
Zoom=0.69999998807907104
Translation=0, 0, 0
Rotation=0, 0, 0
[Camera.1.4]
Guid={195EAB58-9E4A-2E2A-A34C-A8D9D948F078}
Zoom=1.2999999523162842
Translation=0, 0, 0
Rotation=0, 0, 0
[Camera.1.5]
Guid={563FDDA0-AF36-4C28-AB71-B5DB7E77E474}
Zoom=0.89999997615814209
Translation=0, 0, 0
Rotation=0, 0, 0
[Camera.1.6]
Guid={195EAB58-9E4A-3E2A-A34C-A8D9D948F078}
Zoom=0.80000001192092896
Translation=0, 0, 0
Rotation=0, 0, 0
[Camera.1.7]
Guid={BCA3FDD1-FB83-4BBA-8407-4922A7F0D00C}
Zoom=1
Translation=0, 0, 0
ChaseDirection=90
ChaseDistance=28.041599273681641
ChaseAltitude=0.91439998149871826
[Camera.1.8]
Guid={BCA3FDD1-FB83-4BBA-8407-4922A7F0D00D}
Zoom=1
Translation=0, 0, 0
ChaseDirection=-135
ChaseDistance=37.5
ChaseAltitude=0.80000001192092896
[Camera.1.9]
Guid={6B79DD49-9B4A-439D-BF40-ACBF157B0BA0}
Zoom=10
Translation=0, 0, 0
Rotation=0, 0, 0
[Camera.1.10]
Guid={A2849229-938A-448F-8AC6-01EF2291C171}
Zoom=80.300003051757813
Translation=0, 0, 0
Rotation=0, 0, 0
[Camera.1.11]
Guid={60BC0819-BD04-4AF6-8954-8FC8AA3545FF}
Zoom=8
Translation=0, 0, 0
Rotation=0, 0, 0
[Camera.1.12]
Guid={AA8C80C0-9EE2-4284-A1C2-B20CD3F5F3D9}
Zoom=8
Translation=0, 0, 0
Rotation=0, 0, 0
[Camera.1.13]
Guid={607C4520-CA6F-4135-AE10-8BF28838068F}
Zoom=1
Translation=0, 0, 0
Rotation=0, 0, 0
[Camera.1.14]
Guid={C690EAFD-223A-42D0-99E0-681ADF93BB59}
Zoom=1
Translation=0, 0, 0
Rotation=0, 0, 0
[Camera.1.15]
Guid={3A09FD6C-D406-4D8F-A5CD-FA4F5E0C12ED}
Zoom=1
Translation=0, 0, 0
Rotation=0, 0, 0
[Camera.1.16]
Guid={D8D67955-2E9B-4E75-9D8B-8EFFBBFAC64A}
Zoom=0.75
Translation=0, 0, 0
Rotation=0, 0, 0
[Window.2]
Order=3
Active=False
Undocked=False
Maximized=False
ScreenUniCoords=2731, 0, 2731, 6144
CurrentCamera={C95EAB58-9E4A-4E2A-A34C-D8D9D948F078}
[Camera.2.1]
Guid={C95EAB58-9E4A-4E2A-A34C-D8D9D948F078}
Zoom=.522978816687533
Translation=0, 0, 0
Rotation=0, 0, 0
[Window.3]
Order=4
Active=False
Undocked=False
Maximized=False
ScreenUniCoords=5461, 0, 2731, 6144
CurrentCamera={C95EAB58-9E4A-4E2A-A34C-D8D9D948F078}
[Camera.3.1]
Guid={C95EAB58-9E4A-4E2A-A34C-D8D9D948F078}
Zoom=.522978816687533
Translation=0, 0, 0
Rotation=0, 60, 0

Kennair
07-31-2013, 05:25 AM
Hi Paullu, there is a 3 window approach that I think wledzian was referring to rather than the 4 window that you are using. Go HERE (http://www.cockpitbuilders.com/community/index.php?topic=3361.0)for a complete description and sample config files. Copy the window config parameters into a known good FLT file in your system and adjust the Rotation value in the relevant configs to suit your views, this will be calculated using the Window Maker tool. For this to work you must have the Main instrument panel ON. Do this by either editing the [Panel.1] parameter in the FLT file so that it reads "Viewson=1" or start FSX and select "View/Instrument Panel" from the menu and make sure "Main" is ticked. This will place the Black panel fullscreen in the background satisfying FSX's need for at least one fullscreen panel. This may or may not give you a bit better frame rate, depends on your system.

Ken.

Kennair
07-31-2013, 05:31 AM
Paullu looks like you posted while I was typing. Your issue of the left view expanding fullscreen is due to the Main panel not being turned on. Follow my suggestion above to enable that and it should work. Replace your entire Window view section above with this one adjusting the view angles as suggested to meet your specific needs:

[Window.1]
Order=2
Active=False
Undocked=False
Maximized=False
ScreenUniCoords=2731, 0, 2731, 6144
UndocCoords=0, 0, 0, 0
CurrentCamera={B1386D92-4782-4682-A137-738E25D1BAB5}


[Camera.1.1]
Guid={B1386D92-4782-4682-A137-738E25D1BAB5}
Zoom=0.447647365534387 //adjust zoom value as calculated for your setup in Windowmaker
Title=Center view
Translation=0, 0, 0
Rotation=0, 0, 0




///
[Window.2]
Order=0
Active=False
Undocked=False
Maximized=False
ScreenUniCoords=1, 0, 2731, 6144
UndocCoords=0, 0, 0, 0
CurrentCamera={B1386D92-4782-4682-A137-738E25D1BAB5}


[Camera.2.1]
Guid={B1386D92-4782-4682-A137-738E25D1BAB5}
Zoom=0.447647365534387 //adjust zoom value as calculated for your setup in Windowmaker
Title=Left view
Translation=0, 0, 0
Rotation=0, -68, 0 // adjust the center value to your view angle calculated from Windowmaker


///
[Window.3]
Order=1
Active=False
Undocked=False
Maximized=False
ScreenUniCoords=5461, 0, 2731, 6144
UndocCoords=0, 0, 0, 0
CurrentCamera={B1386D92-4782-4682-A137-738E25D1BAB5}


[Camera.3.1]
Guid={B1386D92-4782-4682-A137-738E25D1BAB5}
Zoom=0.447647365534387 //adjust zoom value as calculated for your setup in Windowmaker
Title=Right view
Translation=0, 0, 0
Rotation=0, 68, 0 //adjust the center value to your view angle calculated from Windowmaker




/////////////////////////////////

Ken.

paullu
07-31-2013, 06:17 AM
Paullu looks like you posted while I was typing. Your issue of the left view expanding fullscreen is due to the Main panel not being turned on. Follow my suggestion above to enable that and it should work. Replace your entire Window view section above with this one adjusting the view angles as suggested to meet your specific needs:

[Window.1]
Order=2
Active=False
Undocked=False
Maximized=False
ScreenUniCoords=2731, 0, 2731, 6144
UndocCoords=0, 0, 0, 0
CurrentCamera={B1386D92-4782-4682-A137-738E25D1BAB5}


[Camera.1.1]
Guid={B1386D92-4782-4682-A137-738E25D1BAB5}
Zoom=0.447647365534387 //adjust zoom value as calculated for your setup in Windowmaker
Title=Center view
Translation=0, 0, 0
Rotation=0, 0, 0




///
[Window.2]
Order=0
Active=False
Undocked=False
Maximized=False
ScreenUniCoords=1, 0, 2731, 6144
UndocCoords=0, 0, 0, 0
CurrentCamera={B1386D92-4782-4682-A137-738E25D1BAB5}


[Camera.2.1]
Guid={B1386D92-4782-4682-A137-738E25D1BAB5}
Zoom=0.447647365534387 //adjust zoom value as calculated for your setup in Windowmaker
Title=Left view
Translation=0, 0, 0
Rotation=0, -68, 0 // adjust the center value to your view angle calculated from Windowmaker


///
[Window.3]
Order=1
Active=False
Undocked=False
Maximized=False
ScreenUniCoords=5461, 0, 2731, 6144
UndocCoords=0, 0, 0, 0
CurrentCamera={B1386D92-4782-4682-A137-738E25D1BAB5}


[Camera.3.1]
Guid={B1386D92-4782-4682-A137-738E25D1BAB5}
Zoom=0.447647365534387 //adjust zoom value as calculated for your setup in Windowmaker
Title=Right view
Translation=0, 0, 0
Rotation=0, 68, 0 //adjust the center value to your view angle calculated from Windowmaker




/////////////////////////////////

Ken.

Thank you very much Ken! I will try it later today.

ischmirfad
07-15-2014, 03:34 PM
Hi there to all of you.

First of all I'd like to thank wledzian for this thread. It's an amazing tool...
Next, I'd like to apologize. Wether I was too lazy or too stupid: I couldn't find a hint wether (or how) this tool can cope with the flight files P3D generates. Or is it basically NOT possible to use it with P3D?

Thanks in advance for ANY response.

Greetings,

Peter

wledzian
07-15-2014, 03:53 PM
Peter,

As I've never used P3D, I can't comment on whether or not it generates text appropriate for a P3D flight file. If any P3d users can comment, I'd appreciate the feedback.

-Wayne

ischmirfad
07-16-2014, 04:52 AM
Hi Wayne,

thanks for your quick response!


Peter,

As I've never used P3D, I can't comment on whether or not it generates text appropriate for a P3D flight file. If any P3d users can comment, I'd appreciate the feedback.

-Wayne

That's the point...

Whereas your tool provides a perfectly formatted code for overwriting the respective section in FSX *.flt files, it does NOT for those files in P3D.
The entries there look VERY different (extension is *.xml anyway...) though their "meaning" certainly should be the same.
In case nobody in this forum has experience with that subject, I will try to "translate" the values given by your tool manually for P3D and see what happens...;)

I'll let you know wether I succeed...

Regards,

Peter

sierra240
07-16-2014, 11:26 AM
good day

Please excuse my bad English.
I tried my view to optimize unfortunately without success with Window Maker.
Here are my settings and a picture how it looks now.

[Window.1]
Order=0
Active=True
Undocked=False
Maximized=False
ScreenUniCoords=4, 4, 1, 1
CurrentCamera={B1386D92-4782-4682-A137-738E25D1BAB5}


[Camera.1.1]
Guid={B1386D92-4782-4682-A137-738E25D1BAB5}
Zoom=255
Translation=0, 0, 0
Rotation=-90, 0, 0


[Window.2]
Order=2
Active=False
Undocked=False
Maximized=False
ScreenUniCoords=1, 0, 2731, 6144
CurrentCamera={C95EAB58-9E4A-4E2A-A34C-D8D9D948F078}


[Camera.2.1]
Guid={C95EAB58-9E4A-4E2A-A34C-D8D9D948F078}
Zoom=0.301941960595019
Translation=0, 0, 0
Rotation=0, -90, 0


[Window.3]
Order=3
Active=False
Undocked=False
Maximized=False
ScreenUniCoords=2731, 0, 2731, 6144
CurrentCamera={C95EAB58-9E4A-4E2A-A34C-D8D9D948F078}


[Camera.3.1]
Guid={C95EAB58-9E4A-4E2A-A34C-D8D9D948F078}
Zoom=0.301941960595019
Translation=0, 0, 0
Rotation=0, 0, 0


[Window.4]
Order=4
Active=False
Undocked=False
Maximized=False
ScreenUniCoords=5461, 0, 2731, 6144
CurrentCamera={C95EAB58-9E4A-4E2A-A34C-D8D9D948F078}


[Camera.4.1]
Guid={C95EAB58-9E4A-4E2A-A34C-D8D9D948F078}
Zoom=0.301941960595019
Translation=0, 0, 0
Rotation=0, 90, 0

9357

What am I doing wrong?

I have a screen resolution of 5760 x 1080 and 3 monitors.
Nvidia 670, i7.3930K

Thanks for the help

Marino

wledzian
07-16-2014, 01:39 PM
Marino,

If you're trying to get 270 over three views, you're not doing anything wrong. If you're talking about the angles not matching up, that's normal. The intent of this tool is to provide correctly oriented windows, as if each view is straight-on to the viewer. In other words, those views would look correct if projected onto three walls of a square room with you sitting in the middle.

If you want something that looks more 'correct' from your point of view, you should set it up so that the windows match your monitors. For example, rather than having all three lined up straight, angle the two outer monitors inward to point directly at you. If the entire display takes up 120, use that value instead of 270 in the tool. To account for the bezels, you can adjust the zoom until the image appears as if it would line up behind the bezels.

sierra240
07-17-2014, 03:10 PM
Thank you for the help.

Marino

eossim
09-29-2014, 09:58 AM
Hi !

Your tool is just great, thanks for doing that and share it.
I tried it, have 220 FOV in 2D cockpit (with the appropriate GUID and the interior definition in the .mdl file commented out) but
I have alignment problem (see the image)Is it so or am I doing something wrong ?

Thanks for you help !

Maurice 9561


Way back when I started seriously thinking about building a simpit, I was looking for a way to get FSX to output a true cylindrical or spherical projection. While not entirely successful, I did hit upon the method of using many vertical slices as an approximation, and to avoid the tedium of calculating the parameters for each window by hand, I created the original Windowmaker tool, discussed in this thread (http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/showthread.php/20216-Borders-on-windows-window-alignment-tool?highlight=).

My understanding of the math relating zoom to FOV was limited, resulting in windows that didn't quite align perfectly for low zoom levels (ie 210 in only 3 windows). I've since reverse-engineered the zoom equation, and the new version produces pixel-perfect alignment at both extremes of the zoom range and everywhere in-between.

(It uses VBA code to work its magic. Depending on your security settings, it may pop up a message or just not work. If it doesn't work, check your macro security settings. Feel free to view the code by pressing [alt-F11].)

Procedure:
Set up and save your flight with the aircraft and airport you want to use.
Open the .flt file in notepad or your favorite text editor.
Open WindowMaker.
Set the number of views and total FOV.
Click the "Go !" button.

Copy the window and camera list from column E and paste it over the [Window] and [Camera] definitions in your .flt file.
Save the .flt file.

Go back to FSX and load the saved flight.

WindowMaker_110817 (http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/downloads.php?do=file&id=469)

Extreme example of what it can do: 360 in 27 windows
http://home.comcast.net/~wledzian1//pwpimages/360View.jpg

eossim
09-29-2014, 11:08 AM
Hi,

I posted earlier but I got some kind off erreor message, so I am not sure it went through.
I used your great spreadsheet and generated a 220 FOV .flt file in 2D cockpit.
It works ok exept that there is a misalignment of the Horizon line when not flying straight.

I can provide screenshot if needed.
Am I doing something wrong ?

Thanks!

Maurice

wledzian
09-30-2014, 12:07 PM
Looks like your earlier post went through.

From that screenshot, my first thought is that your Wideviewaspect setting is false or missing in fsx.ini.
When wideviewaspect=false, FSX sets the FOV of the longer dimension, in this case window height. When wideviewaspect=true, FSX sets the FOV of the shorter dimension, in this case the width.

A quick check to see if that will fix it - in windowed mode, shrink the FSX window until each of the three individual windows are wider than they are tall. If everything lines up like this, you just need to add the Wideviewaspect=true setting to the fsx.ini file.

eossim
10-02-2014, 11:26 AM
Looks like your earlier post went through.

From that screenshot, my first thought is that your Wideviewaspect setting is false or missing in fsx.ini.
When wideviewaspect=false, FSX sets the FOV of the longer dimension, in this case window height. When wideviewaspect=true, FSX sets the FOV of the shorter dimension, in this case the width.

A quick check to see if that will fix it - in windowed mode, shrink the FSX window until each of the three individual windows are wider than they are tall. If everything lines up like this, you just need to add the Wideviewaspect=true setting to the fsx.ini file.

Hi,

First of all, many thanks for your quick answer.
I changed the Wideviewaspect to True in the fsx.cfg file (could not find any fsx.ini) but the problem remains.
Even on the ground, plane stopped, ther is a misalignment (see the attached screenshot)
I tried with a FOV of 210% as the numbers are more rounded, but no effect.
I have tried the same .flt file on two different machines. Both have Preview DX10 unchecked.

9570

I also add the Windows and Camera section.
[Window.1]
Order=0
Active=True
Undocked=False
Maximized=False
ScreenUniCoords=4, 4, 1, 1
CurrentCamera={B1386D92-4782-4682-A137-738E25D1BAB5}
[Camera.1.1]
Guid={B1386D92-4782-4682-A137-738E25D1BAB5}
Zoom=255
Translation=0, 0, 0
Rotation=-90, 0, 0
[Window.2]
Order=2
Active=False
Undocked=False
Maximized=False
ScreenUniCoords=1, 0, 2731, 6144
CurrentCamera={C95EAB58-9E4A-4E2A-A34C-D8D9D948F078}
[Camera.2.1]
Guid={C95EAB58-9E4A-4E2A-A34C-D8D9D948F078}
Zoom=0,431217809175583
Translation=0, 0, 0
Rotation=0, -70, 0
[Window.3]
Order=3
Active=False
Undocked=False
Maximized=False
ScreenUniCoords=2731, 0, 2731, 6144
CurrentCamera={C95EAB58-9E4A-4E2A-A34C-D8D9D948F078}
[Camera.3.1]
Guid={C95EAB58-9E4A-4E2A-A34C-D8D9D948F078}
Zoom=0,431217809175583
Translation=0, 0, 0
Rotation=0, 0, 0
[Window.4]
Order=4
Active=False
Undocked=False
Maximized=False
ScreenUniCoords=5461, 0, 2731, 6144
CurrentCamera={C95EAB58-9E4A-4E2A-A34C-D8D9D948F078}
[Camera.4.1]
Guid={C95EAB58-9E4A-4E2A-A34C-D8D9D948F078}
Zoom=0,431217809175583
Translation=0, 0, 0
Rotation=0, 70, 0


Any help or hint is welcome.

Thanks,

Maurice9571

wledzian
10-02-2014, 04:38 PM
Those numbers are correct for that configuration.

FSX.cfg is located in two places; the one in the install folder won't do it, you need to change the one in the ...\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\FSX path.

eossim
10-03-2014, 08:50 AM
Hi and thanks again,

I changed the parameters in all FSX.CFG I could find with no change, unfortunately.
Manually resizing the window to invert the height/width ratio has no effect either.
I noticed someting strange however : In the .flt file, the zoom is 0.43 but in the sim, when I click on one window, the indicated zoom is 0.30. I don't know if it is important. Can you further help me with that ? I can donate something to support your development if you have some Paypal account.

Thanks,

Maurice




Those numbers are correct for that configuration.

FSX.cfg is located in two places; the one in the install folder won't do it, you need to change the one in the ...\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\FSX path.

wledzian
10-03-2014, 11:49 AM
I see the problem - you're in Belgium - You have Excel set to use a comma as the decimal separator. FSX requires a period as the decimal separator. Fix that and you should be fine.

eossim
10-06-2014, 03:36 AM
I see the problem - you're in Belgium - You have Excel set to use a comma as the decimal separator. FSX requires a period as the decimal separator. Fix that and you should be fine.

Hi !
It works perfectly !! Many thanks for you effort and help. Most kind of you. How can I thank you ?
Do you have a Paypal account on wich I could make some donation to further support your work ?

Thanks again,

Maurice

Emmanuel
11-07-2014, 07:04 PM
Hi,

I browsed this thread and I just used your great tool!! Oustanding work!

My home built cockpit is now waiting for a display solution. I've tested your .xls and it gives great results on FSX and 3 small 19" monitors with TH2G, but I plan to move on P3D with a much more powerful HW setup for computer and graphic cards (SLI)
Also I would like to know if it's possible, from the center view and fov I have adjusted to fit my needs (I want the view of the VC panel to fit with the real panel I built so I have a 270 degrees 3d immersive display 'around' my home built cockpit) to use your tool to calculate the orientation and position of the left and right views based from that center view...
I'll use 3 49" 4k tv sets (Full HD only so far) for left, center and right views around the pit.

Hope you see what I mean... :wink:

Best regards

Emmanuel

wledzian
11-10-2014, 05:09 PM
For 270, each window will be 90, or slightly less if you account for the bezels. If you just want to set up three displays based on the single display that you've already calibrated, it should be a simple matter of setting it up for three windows and adjusting the total horizontal FOV by hand to match the Zoom factor that you've set.

Emmanuel
11-11-2014, 06:17 PM
Hi and thx for your reply,

I tried to achieve the 3 windows but I have horrible perspective distortions with a too low zoom level and wideview true.
If I uncheck wideview, the result is really promising but I sure got to buy 2 or 3 more monitors to get a true 210 degrees FOV (I
Do you know a software I could use to compensate or correct those persp. distortions ?
Btw, I use P3D 2.4 and not FSX (anymore...)

Thanx in advance

Emmanuel

wledzian
11-11-2014, 06:45 PM
Are you trying to get 210 on a single monitor in 3 windows? If so, you should probably have Wideviewaspect=true. This will give you a lot of distortion, as the vertical FOV will be very large.

When you're using three monitors, those perspective "distortions" will be correct, unlike when you view multiple windows on a single monitor.

If you want to cram such a wide FOV into a single monitor, I'd suggest trying 7 or 9 windows. It will give something closer to the view shown on the first page of this thread, but without the performance hit of 27 windows.

Emmanuel
11-12-2014, 07:06 PM
Hi,

well actually, I performed a test with a 55" Full HD TV and it was great. I guess that I now have to wait until I get those 49" TVs so that I'll made some real tests.
But the results on the single TV were outstanding, I set 0.6 as zoom level and I almost had a real life vision of the cockpit, and I guess I'll be able to get a 210 degrees with the 3 sets.
To be continued...

Britjet
11-26-2014, 12:31 PM
Hi all

This is my first post as a cockpit builder here. I am trying to get a 3-projector setup going and am trying to use Windowmaker.
Sadly I am getting nowhere at the moment.:-(

I am using P3d (and have found that the .flt files are actually fxml files now). So far so good. When I paste the spreadsheet data from Windowmaker into the fxml file, no matter how carefully I try, when I restart P3d, I get a message that P3d cannot find my aircraft and will start with the default only, so I just get a single screen with the F22 on it.:-(

I am thinking that the problem lies with the file naming (flt vs fxml?) but no matter what I try I get the same result. I am using notepad for the file changes.

Can anyone help please? I am sure that there is a simple explanation but I have spent hours on this!

Regards

Britjet

wledzian
11-26-2014, 04:11 PM
I see that you're in the UK. Is your decimal separator a comma or a period? FSX and P3D require that the separator be a period.

Britjet
11-26-2014, 07:26 PM
Thanks Wiedzian, I think I have it now. It wasn't a comma problem but more a case of not pasting blindly, and inserting the zoom and offsets in the correct camera sections. I am not very clever with file handling and I think I might post a summary of what I did in idiot-speak in case there are any more like me out there!

Thanks!

Brit

johnthepilot
12-09-2014, 05:36 AM
Hi wledzian will this tool work with Prepar3D v2 Fxml type files please if so
How

luisclement
02-27-2015, 09:25 AM
YEs would be great to get your help on this one as I am as well in P3D, thank you in advance.

wledzian
02-27-2015, 01:18 PM
I have not tried it directly in Prepar3d, but it is my understanding that the view scaling is identical and the portion of the relevant file is similar. If you can locate the relevant portion of the file, feel free to paste the Windowmaker text in place and see what happens. Worst case - the file doesn't work.

TheSimCentre
04-27-2015, 10:32 AM
Hi All

I wounder if you could help me?
after using windowmaker in P3d this is what I have joined up but I seem to have a blank bit at the bottom is that right? I dont think so.

Neil

TheSimCentre
04-27-2015, 10:33 AM
Photo attached!

TheSimCentre
04-27-2015, 04:02 PM
All, Please find attached a photo of the problem?

mdavenport
05-11-2016, 05:45 PM
Can any one offer me any help in getting this working in a P3D fxml file? I have 3 x 23" monitors landscape.

I've created a new flight .fxml file in P3D and edited in notepad but the references/headings in the excel spreadsheet don't match the P3D file - for example..

The is only 1 window section 'window.1'.
There are 22 camera sections 'camera.1.xx'

I asume I make 3 x window.x sections?

Do I point these at the VC GUID or the 2D GUID? In the window maker spreadsheet Windows 1 points to 2D but Window 2, 3, 4 all point to the VC??

In my file window.1 = VC GUID but camera.1.1 = 2D and camera.1.2 = VC

Shouldn't they all = VC?

Hope I am making sense and you can help?

Mark

ammarmalhas
05-12-2016, 02:03 AM
Can any one offer me any help in getting this working in a P3D fxml file? I have 3 x 23" monitors landscape.

I've created a new flight .fxml file in P3D and edited in notepad but the references/headings in the excel spreadsheet don't match the P3D file - for example..

The is only 1 window section 'window.1'.
There are 22 camera sections 'camera.1.xx'

I assume I make 3 x window.x sections?

Do I point these at the VC GUID or the 2D GUID? In the window maker spreadsheet Windows 1 points to 2D but Window 2, 3, 4 all point to the VC??

In my file window.1 = VC GUID but camera.1.1 = 2D and camera.1.2 = VC

Shouldn't they all = VC?

Hope I am making sense and you can help?

Mark

Mark,
I have not used Windowmaker (i tried but I cannot make it work for me and I really do not need it) but I can answer a few of your questions:
- You should have 4 window.x sections; window.1/.../window.4,
- Window.1 should be set to any camera view and set it to panel view or spot view or something that needs the least scenery,
- Windows.2/.3/.4 are your 3 views. They need to be VC views if you want to see landing and taxi lights and 2-D if not, I honestly do not know what the difference is and I am using VC,
- Camera.1.xx/camera.2.xx ...etc, all you need of those is camera.x.1/camera.x.2 and you can delete the rest, P3D and FSX will recreate them,

My FSX "flt" file has the following:

[Window.1]
Order=4
Active=False
Undocked=False
Maximized=True
ScreenUniCoords=4, 4, 1, 1
UndocCoords=0, 0, 0, 0
CurrentCamera={A2849229-938A-448F-8AC6-01EF2291C171}

[Camera.1.1]
Guid={B1386D92-4782-4682-A137-738E25D1BAB5}
Zoom=1
Translation=0, 0, 0
Rotation=0, 0, 0

[Camera.1.2]
Guid={C95EAB58-9E4A-4E2A-A34C-D8D9D948F078}
Zoom=255
Translation=0, 0, 0
Rotation=0, 0, 0


[Window.2]
Order=2
Active=False
Undocked=False
Maximized=False
ScreenUniCoords=0, 0, 2731, 6144
UndocCoords=0, 0, 0, 0
CurrentCamera={C95EAB58-9E4A-4E2A-A34C-D8D9D948F078} <---- VC GUID

[Camera.2.1]
Guid={B1386D92-4782-4682-A137-738E25D1BAB5}
Zoom=1
Translation=0, 0, 0
Rotation=0, 0, 0

[Camera.2.2]
Guid={C95EAB58-9E4A-4E2A-A34C-D8D9D948F078} <---- VC GUID
Zoom=0.46500000357627869 <---- Calculated by my warping software
Translation=0, 0, -0
Rotation=1.3425000905990601, -72.6199951171875, 0.60000002384185791 <---- Calculated by my warping software w/minor tweaks


[Window.3]
Order=0
Active=False
Undocked=False
Maximized=False
ScreenUniCoords=2740, 0, 2726, 6144
UndocCoords=0, 0, 0, 0
CurrentCamera={C95EAB58-9E4A-4E2A-A34C-D8D9D948F078} <---- VC GUID

[Camera.3.1]
Guid={B1386D92-4782-4682-A137-738E25D1BAB5}
Zoom=1
Translation=0, 0, 0
Rotation=0, 0, 0

[Camera.3.2]
Guid={C95EAB58-9E4A-4E2A-A34C-D8D9D948F078} <---- VC GUID
Zoom=0.43924799561500549 <---- Calculated by my warping software
Translation=0, 0, -0
Rotation=0.90000003576278687, 1.7000000476837158, 0 <---- Calculated by my warping software w/minor tweaks


[Window.4]
Order=3
Active=False
Undocked=False
Maximized=False
ScreenUniCoords=5461, 0, 2731, 6144
UndocCoords=0, 0, 0, 0
CurrentCamera={C95EAB58-9E4A-4E2A-A34C-D8D9D948F078} <---- VC GUID

[Camera.4.1]
Guid={B1386D92-4782-4682-A137-738E25D1BAB5}
Zoom=1
Translation=0, 0, 0
Rotation=0, 0, 0

[Camera.4.2]
Guid={C95EAB58-9E4A-4E2A-A34C-D8D9D948F078} <---- VC GUID
Zoom=0.45610100030899048 <---- Calculated by my warping software
Translation=0, 0, -0
Rotation=0.41999998688697815, 72.900001525878906, 0.15000000596046448 <---- Calculated by my warping software w/minor tweaks

P3D fxml files have different format but eventually same info.
Please note the rotation and zoom values will not work for you; these are specific for my cylindrical screen and 3-projector set up with warping software. Use Windowmaker to get similar results for your set up.

I hope this helps you.
Good luck,
Ammar120

wledzian
05-12-2016, 05:35 PM
All, Please find attached a photo of the problem?

Sorry for taking so long to reply to this question, I didn't see it when originally posted.
That blank bit at the bottom looks like a near clipping plane issue. With three views on one monitor, your vertical FOV is rather large, and with the plane on the ground, the near clipping plane extends through the ground. Does the problem persist when you're in the air?

Afraid I don't know how to adjust the clipping plane position.

hercules
05-14-2016, 04:59 AM
Its pretty simple.

fill out the desired view angle and number of displys.
Than click calculate.

In P3d load a flight and add three additional views.
Save that flight and open the related file in an text editor.

The let the formating signs alone and just copy the calculated data to the correct positions.
You will need only Camara 1 in each window part.
You can delete all other cams beteeen the windows.

For me in germany the comma in the zoom part must changed to a dot. It depends on the country and excel language.

Save the file and open it in p3d. The correct view only appears if you make a full screen in window mode or a real full-screen.

You will need to select "show all file extensions' to save the flight file.

Thomas

hercules
05-14-2016, 05:00 AM
Its pretty simple.

fill out the desired view angle and number of displys.
Than click calculate.

In P3d load a flight and add three additional views.
Save that flight and open the related file in a text editor.

Let the formating signs alone and just copy the calculated data to the correct positions.
You will need only Camara 1 in each window part.
You can delete all other cams beteeen the windows.

For me in germany the comma in the zoom part must changed to a dot. It depends on the country and excel language.

Save the file and open it in p3d. The correct view only appears if you make a full screen in window mode or a real full-screen.

You will need to select "show all file extensions' to save the flight file.

Thomas

ammarmalhas
05-16-2016, 01:49 AM
118

Yes Thomas, it could be just as simple as you describe BUT the problem remains in fully understanding what FOV and zoom really mean! One has to read a few articles and posts to grasp what these should be.

The Windowmaker tool, I believe, will not help if you are using cylindrical screens and projection that will need special warping and blending software! In such cases there will be view overlaps that will have to be accounted for.
Furthermore, is there anything within it that allows for the angles at which the monitors are setup? Is having two monitors straight different than having them placed at 30 or 45? I am not sure if there is a difference but I am a bit confused with this.

Looking at the tool, on line B10 & B11 it states "If windows are wider than they are tall, set Wideviewaspect=FALSE", shouldn't this be the opposite?

Now, most of us out there are looking for settings that mimic reality and shows us what we should see out of a cockpit, so zooming IN/OUT and seeing more or less than we should (FOV), are means to achieve this but many of us do not really know what to expect or what should be achieved!

Why doesn't anyone just tell us simply what the FOV and zoom settings should be in different cases in which the distance between our eyes and the monitors/screens are taken into account? In real life when we come closer to a window we do not see the objects outside any closer (well we do but for objects away form the windows we can hardly tell they look any closer), but we do see more of the view! It we move away from a window we still see the objects at the same distance (really smaller but not noticeably so), we see less of the view out! This is not like the "ZOOM" we are using because such changes are hardly noticeable, maybe FOV, and what about the vertical part of the FOV?

Yes I have been confused about the views and what we should really be seeing, but my beliefs are that in a physical cockpit replica with a large screen and us looking out of a physical window structure at a large screen, we get that feeling of changing FOV when we move closer or away from the window. The views projected or displayed on large monitors (larger than the window we look from) are set up as close as what should be seen outside a cockpit where a pilot's eye-point is taken in consideration, I think!

I must add that in our usage and our flying we seldom move our heads more than a few centimeters forward/backwards which really means we never see any difference in what is projected on our monitors or screens, so if we set a zoom and FOV levels to show what we are supposed to see then we are really set and we can enjoy flying. :-)

Anyway, Windowmaker is a good tool for monitors and is a good starting point which output can be tweaked by the user to fit his/her special set up.

I just wanted to go through the above to clarify things to myself :-) by writing this down, and perhaps help clarify things for others (this is what we should be doing on the net, help each other understand and benefit from knowledge). Sorry if added to the confusion :-( I did not mean to ;-)
163169

wledzian
05-19-2016, 01:26 PM
Do you really need to know what all the numbers mean, or do you need a tool that gives you the numbers you need, given the input you provide?

Granted, windowmaker is not a complete tool, in that it only works fully for several windows assuming no bezel and no overlap. That doesn't mean it's not a useful tool for cylindrical or other displays, you just need to work within and around its limitations. For instance, I use it with my own collimated display with a 210 field of view. For example, I have it set up with 15 of overlap, so I did a little paperwork to figure out what I needed:

** There are two zones of 15 overlap, so I need to draw an extra 30 total, split between three projectors. With no overlap, each projector is responsible for 70, so with the overlap extension, I now use 80 for each.
** The leftmost projector covers from -105 to -25, so the rotation is centered between those values at -65. Similar for the right projector. The center projector has no rotation.
** To get the zoom values, I enter info into Windowmaker as if I have three 80 windows, for a total of 240, let it do its thing to generate zoom values, then manually correct the rotation for the left and right sides before copy-pasting into my saved flight file.

You'll still have to warp these projections to fit the cylindrical geometry of your screen, but this should get you to the correct point regarding source imagery within each window.


There is a difference between having two monitors straight and having them placed at an angle. With the monitors straight, you don't need multiple views to get a correct perspective, just use a single window across all the monitors, set Wideviewaspect = TRUE (more on that later), and set a zoom value based on your VERTICAL FOV instead of your horizontal FOV. For different angles, you need different views. Optimally, the monitors should be pointed directly at you.

Regarding Wideviewaspect, the statement is correct. Setting Wideviewaspect = TRUE causes FSX to clamp the FOV on the narrower dimension of the display; Wideviewaspect = FALSE clamps the FOV on the wider dimension. If you have a widescreen monitor and use a zoom value for 50 with Wideviewaspect=TRUE, you will have a 50 VERTICAL field of view. Unless you're projecting in portrait mode, each window will be wider than it is tall, and since we want to clamp the horizontal FOV, we want Wideviewaspect = FALSE.

Flying_Fox
05-19-2016, 02:26 PM
Thanks Wayne!

Could you comment on the 3 view/ bent horizon issue which is currently discussed in this thread (http://prosim-ar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=9749&start=60#p72730)

Nick

(http://prosim-ar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=9749&start=60#p72730)

ammarmalhas
05-19-2016, 03:56 PM
Regarding Wideviewaspect, the statement is correct. Setting Wideviewaspect = TRUE causes FSX to clamp the FOV on the narrower dimension of the display; Wideviewaspect = FALSE clamps the FOV on the wider dimension. If you have a widescreen monitor and use a zoom value for 50 with Wideviewaspect=TRUE, you will have a 50 VERTICAL field of view. Unless you're projecting in portrait mode, each window will be wider than it is tall, and since we want to clamp the horizontal FOV, we want Wideviewaspect = FALSE.

Very nice explanation and guide on how to use Windowmaker with overlap.
But since for cylindrical screens we will need warping software and that usually exports the view settings we need for FSX and P3d i see no use for WM, in my case, hence my comment about its use.

As for the WideViewAspect I have read your comment several times but I still cannot understand what it really means! :-(

Am I correct in understanding that if WVA is set to TRUE then the FOV becomes VERTICAL FOV and if set to FALSE then FOV is the HORIZONTAL FOV? Can we really separate Horizontal FOV from Vertical FOV? I am lost here :-(

Maybe I need not understand it, but I know I have to set it to TRUE on my 3-projector 225 cylindrical screen (2.5m radius with my eye point as the center) which is almost 2m high and my zoom levels are around 0.45.

What are your thoughts on FOV and ZOOM? Are there any "standard' numbers that fit different situations? Say if I use 225 FOV (Horizontal) then my zoom must be somewhere around 0.45, what would zoom be if my FOV is only 180? 145? 90 and so on?

Thank you for taking the time and the effort to provide us with your helpful explanations.
357

wledzian
05-19-2016, 05:27 PM
If you've got another tool that already gives you the numbers you need, then you don't need Windowmaker. When I made it, no such tools were available, and I wanted to see how far I could push it. Heck, if I had a way to get rid of the window borders, I'd suggest using more than three windows to get close to a native cylindrical projection as shown on my first post in this thread, where I had 27 views across a 1920x1080 display for a full 360 cylindrical projection (<strike>apparently the link doesn't work anymore; I'll have to see about fixing that</strike> Link fixed ).

WVA can be confusing, since it isn't specific to horizontal or vertical FOV, but rather to the FOV across the wide or narrow dimension of the window. For example, if you have a single image across a typical monitor in landscape mode, the image is wider than it is tall. If you have WVA=FALSE, FSX constrains the wide dimension, which is in this case the width. If you similarly use three windows across three displays, each will be wider than it is tall, so you'll want WVA=FALSE to constrain the width. On the other hand, if you want to test the alignment of three windows on a single monitor before you hook up your projectors, you'll have three tall and skinny windows, where the height is the wide dimension. As FSX will now constrain your vertical field of view, it will appear that the window edges don't align. If you then take each of the three windows and shrink them vertically so that they are again wider than they are tall, the edges will match.

It is entirely possible that the software you are using assumes that WVA=TRUE, and gives you a zoom value based on the vertical FOV that will result from the desired horizontal FOV and the known aspect ratio of your display. Neither way is wrong, just different. As a check, I'll assume 15 overlap, for 85 per projector, which results in a 55.24 vertical FOV at the native image center of a 16x9 display, for an FSX zoom value of 0.57. With no overlap assumed, I get a vertical FOV of 47.26, for an FSX zoom value of 0.68. I'm guessing the values provided to you for an assumed WVA=TRUE are somewhere between those two values. For WVA=FALSE, I get zoom = 0.388 for no overlap, 0.324 for 15 overlap.

If you've got a zoom value of 0.45 with WVA=TRUE, I'm guessing you've got almost 35 of overlap between each projector. Is that about right?

As for "standard" numbers, not so much, as they are dependent on the width of the overlap zones.

ammarmalhas
05-20-2016, 04:12 AM
25

Sorry i had no idea i was discussing Windowmaker with its author :oops:
I commend you on a well written software that proved to be very useful to many people. The fact that people are still using the software and we are discussing this many YEARS after you wrote it is evidence of it immense success ;-) Enjoy it sir, well deserved. :-)

I use Fly Elsie Calibration Pro, mainly for warping and blending and I get the FLT views output settings as an extra from the software. However i always tweak and change the settings I get (the rotation of the views) to get exact alignment of the three views i use.
My setup is 225 cylindrical screen 2.5m radius, 2m height using 3 Optoma 1080 GT projectors, the resultant settings i use in my FLT file with minor tweaking done by me is as follows:

/////////////

[Window.1] <--- Main Top-Down view hidden behind the three other views zoomed out to the max.
Order=5
Active=False
Undocked=False
Maximized=True
ScreenUniCoords=4, 4, 1, 1
UndocCoords=0, 0, 0, 0
CurrentCamera={A2849229-938A-448F-8AC6-01EF2291C171}

[Camera.1.1] <--- Not sure why this is here?
Guid={B1386D92-4782-4682-A137-738E25D1BAB5}
Zoom=1
Translation=0, 0, 0
Rotation=-90, 0, 0

[Camera.1.2]
Guid={C95EAB58-9E4A-4E2A-A34C-D8D9D948F078} <--- Not sure why I use this VC GUID when what I see is the Currentcamera defined above and the Top-Down.
Zoom=255 <--- maximum zoom assuming small Earth will not impact fps
Translation=0, 0, 0
Rotation=0, 0, 0


[Window.2] <--- Left view tweaked
Order=0
Active=False
Undocked=False
Maximized=False
ScreenUniCoords=0, 0, 2731, 6144
UndocCoords=0, 0, 0, 0
CurrentCamera={C95EAB58-9E4A-4E2A-A34C-D8D9D948F078} <--- Virtual Cockpit view

[Camera.2.1] <--- Again not sure why this is here
Guid={B1386D92-4782-4682-A137-738E25D1BAB5}
Zoom=1
Translation=0, 0, 0
Rotation=0, 0, 0

[Camera.2.2]
Guid={C95EAB58-9E4A-4E2A-A34C-D8D9D948F078}
Zoom=0.46500000357627869 <--- Zoom calculated and outputted by the Fly Elise software
Translation=0, 0, -0
Rotation=1.3500000238418579, -73, 0.60000002384185791 <--- tweaked slightly by me

[Window.3] <--- center view
Order=1
Active=False
Undocked=False
Maximized=False
ScreenUniCoords=2736, 0, 2736, 6145
UndocCoords=0, 0, 0, 0
CurrentCamera={C95EAB58-9E4A-4E2A-A34C-D8D9D948F078} <--- Virtual Cockpit

[Camera.3.1] <--- Again not sure why this is here
Guid={B1386D92-4782-4682-A137-738E25D1BAB5}
Zoom=1
Translation=0, 0, 0
Rotation=0, 0, 0

[Camera.3.2]
Guid={C95EAB58-9E4A-4E2A-A34C-D8D9D948F078}
Zoom=0.43924799561500549 <--- Zoom calculated and outputted by the Fly Elise software
Translation=0, 0, -0
Rotation=0.90000003576278687, 1.7000000476837158, 0


[Window.4] <--- right view
Order=2
Active=False
Undocked=False
Maximized=False
ScreenUniCoords=5461, 0, 2731, 6144
UndocCoords=0, 0, 0, 0
CurrentCamera={C95EAB58-9E4A-4E2A-A34C-D8D9D948F078} <--- Virtual Cockpit

[Camera.4.1]
Guid={B1386D92-4782-4682-A137-738E25D1BAB5}
Zoom=1
Translation=0, 0, 0
Rotation=0, 0, 0

[Camera.4.2]
Guid={C95EAB58-9E4A-4E2A-A34C-D8D9D948F078}
Zoom=0.45610100030899048 <--- Zoom calculated and outputted by the Fly Elise software
Translation=0, 0, -0
Rotation=0.41499999165534973, 72.575004577636719, 0.15000000596046448 <--- tweaked slightly by me

//////////////


As you see the zoom levels are around 0.43-0.46.
I know that what I see outside my cockpit window is what I should be seeing because i measured the closest point on the runway that I am supposed to see in front of the 737 nose (11.5m out) ( check out this very helpful page http://www.flying-the-winglets.de/Visual3.html#Flight_Deck_Perspective ) and I get that much.
i have never been inside a 737 cockpit to take photos and know for sure what the visuals should be.

As you also note from above that my screen is roughly 225 wide and my views are centered about -73/0/+73. I have a measured overlap between the Center/Left and the Center/Right views close to 20% each side. The Center view is actually overlapped by the sides with around 40% of its projection area. I do not know what the FOV of each view is exactly, but it is logically around 86.5.
This is the result of the physical placement of the projectors and their throw ratio. To get less overlap i will have to move the projectors closer to the screen or turn them farther left and right resulting in even larger horizontal FOV! I am using the recommendation of Fly Elsie to have an overlap at least 15% to get better blending.

I am not sure where i am going with this, i am satisfied with the output I am getting, I wish for better blending but nothing is perfect.
It is just interesting to learn more about things we take for granted.
3546

wledzian
05-20-2016, 12:38 PM
FlyingFox:

I'll take a look at that thread a bit more when I have some time, but just from the page you linked, it looks like others have provided the same input that I would, including some quotes from past posts of mine.


Ammarmalhas:

Initially, I was confused about the non-symmetric zoom values and rotations, but if I understand FlyElise correctly, it does camera-based autocalibration, and so likely provides you with the values based on that.

ammarmalhas
05-20-2016, 12:45 PM
Initially, I was confused about the non-symmetric zoom values and rotations, but if I understand FlyElise correctly, it does camera-based autocalibration, and so likely provides you with the values based on that.

Yes they have camera-based calibration and also no-camera calibration, which is much easier. I have used both and the results are VERY close.

72

BHawthorne
12-10-2017, 06:10 AM
Yes they have camera-based calibration and also no-camera calibration, which is much easier. I have used both and the results are VERY close.72Just a note, I always recommend all Nthusim users continue to use WindowMaker and I have been recommending it ever since it was first posted here. While that competing product is a viable alternative, Window Maker sure is more cost effective for what it does. I consider Window Maker to be a critical tool for Nthsim users in the past, present and future. There is something that can be said for using something like Window Maker, because using it you actually get to understand the mechanics better than having something do it for you. I realize that is arbitrary preference, but it's always good to have more than one way to do something when simpit building. Options are a good thing. Don't write off Windows Maker just because someone else came up with an alternative method.