Citation X Build- Help appreciated

[WhiteStar01]

Hello All,

I'm a long time reader and have been bitten by the bug... I think it's time I finally get my cockpit underway. I would really like my build to resemble the Citation X but am running into a few issues already. I currently use the Eaglesoft model (have the Wilco but it causes me grief) and I would really like to continue with this bird as it has all the features of the heavies but in one classy, sporty little package.

- Does anyone know if there is a way to undock the panels to my separate monitors once I set them up? I cannot seem to figure out a way to break out the PFD, MFD, EICAS etc. If I cannot get this to work, I think I'm doomed from the start. Currently I just fly in the VC.

- Failing above, is there currently 3rd party software that I could use to power my instruments such as magenta etc? Perhaps just for the EICAS but not sure if it will look remotely like the Citation X and show proper alarms etc- if not, I will be doomed to be driven crazy by the inaccuracy :)

- Does anyone know a source for Citation X measurements? I have yet to find a cockpit build.

I would like to run a Triplehead2go with 3 monitors for external front view, and a monitor for PFD and MFD (and EICAS if I could run another dual head perhaps) If EICAS, RMU and FMS could be operated on another PC via Magenta style software, it would be great but I haven't found anything yet.

Anyone have any ideas or suggestions for me? perhaps I should just build a 737 as there is lots of goodies available, but I am truly loving my Citation X. What a fantastic bird.

Thanks in advance for any help!

[Danielk]

Hey Whitestar01,

Daniel, new member, here :)

Its a while since you wrote this, uI just wonder if you got anywhere with this cockpit?

I'm flying the eaglesoft citation as well, and i LOVE it! And lately i've been fantasizing wildly about building a cockpit. :lol:
Its got the performance of an airliner and is semi long-range. But i can still land on short strips if i want that. Perfect!

I've tried the Eaglesoft forums for some general questions about their Citation X and how it would work with cockpit building, but no luck over there. The forums seems almost dead, with little knowledge to details.

I have looked at FS Panel Studio, maybe you can "pull out" the PFD ND and EICAS etc. from there? and make your own panel which would fit behind the frame of the MIP?

Anyone else know if this is possible?

Thanks in advance, looking forward to spending time in these forums :D

[BW901]

Hi Daniel,

It should be possible but really depends on how Eaglesoft have designed their gauges. If each instrument or the PFD, ND, etc are individual gauges within their panel then it should work. Some developers (eg Captain Sim with the Herc) make a complete panel section incorporating several instruments as a single gauge, which makes life very difficult.

The panel definitions (panel.cfg) can be modified with any text editor such as notepad or wordpad. You don't need FS Panel Studio, although it does help with seeing how the end result will look, rather than looking at a screenful of numbers.

I just finished the panel layout for my F27 (re)build - real flying not a Magenta line in sight ;). The overhead and sidepanels are on another screen so the switches are accessible for Key2Mouse countrol. Job for this week is to fit the screens behind the real panel. I've also successfully modified the Flight1 ATR72 and Tinmouse 737 and a couple of months ago reworked Aerosoft's A300 onto four screens for a friend, so hopefully it's possible to do what you want.

Cheers
Jon
www.g-bvob.net

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll145/360shed/G-BVOB/26Jun11.jpg

[Danielk]

Hmm, i might be posting double now, but seems my post dissapeared? Even though it says last post by me on the main page, oh well!


Thanks for the reply Jon! You're simpit looks really cool :)

I managed to find gauges for every single screen in the citation cockpit inside a CitationSomething.dll file. But when opening them in FS Panel Studio it crashed, maybe they're too advanced or simply not compatible?

So since im fairly new to this i'm starting with the basics: Can i ''extract'' the gauges from the DLL file?

Can i edit the panel.cfg to make the panel fit on a screen and in the right position according to the cut-outs on the Main panel, when mounted behind it?

Thanks, I really appreciate your help :)

[BW901]

Just sent you a PM!
Jon

[Badge]

This might be of interest to you as I am working on getting a mockup model laser cut at this time to test all the parts.

[Danielk]

Wow, looks awesome :) I suppose you ave access to different cockpit measurements as well then?

[WhiteStar01]

I typed up a very lengthy reply but it did not post. Here's a shorter version.

Due to lack of information on the Citation I reverted back to my Lear45 roots :) I revisited the site Hangar 45 dot net. The group of guys over there is fantastic to say the least. Check out my youtube vids (Shadow549) for some samples of how much I was able to build in a few weeks.

The cliff-notes are:

Software: Jet 45 available for the Lear covering all aspects of guages- works amazing
Shell: Ron Rollo supplies a complete Lear shell if you want one (I have not yet got one but many have)
MIP Support tower/Console: All 100% scale plans free onsite (had mine built in days)
MIP/Glareshield: Available from Tom Goldberg onsite (mine arrived in days, waterjet cut aluminum- Fantastic!)
Panels/Bezels: Entire backer panel set purchased from Ron (AMAZING!) Electrical panel coming from Eric Tomlin this week. Bezels/RMU's coming from Vince next week- these will be amazing
Standby Gauge Software: Free from Dave Ault- link onsite
Switches- Lenses purchased from Ron onsite- Amazing. Switches from Ebay

The entire Lear can be sourced/purchased from members on Hangar 45. Also they make ALL the information and plans (including CNC info) available for anyone to build their own. The hardest part for me was understanding who is making/designing/selling what cockpit components. This just took a bit a forum reading and a few lengthy phone calls to site members.

All the plans are in the reference area.

I was a little disappointed I couldn't stay with the Citation, until I had the beginnings of a complete Lear in just a few weeks. Super glad I switched :)

Hope this helps.

[Danielk]

Hey! I've had some problems posting too, dunno why, one time it said it was pending morderator approval, but nothing happened..

Yeah, the Lear45 community looks really great. I've been looking around at those sites a lot!

But how about navigation? I want a fully functional FMC with updated navdata so that i can fly real routes with SID/STAR on Vatsim, how do you solve that?

[WhiteStar01]

This is a bit of a problem. For now I use the Friendly Panels Lear for FSX which comes with a simple FMC/CDU. It wont work well for SIDS STARS. The Jet45 software is developing a fully functional FMC for the Lear to be released soon. This will be exactly like the real one (so I'm told)

Other guys are using VAS-FMC and other stand-alone FMC software with good success. These can do everything you need. I haven't messed with them yet due to my build being stalled due to nice summer weather.

[Danielk]

Okay, the citation FMC is so advanced with the FADEC, SID/STARS, VNAV etc.. So its hard to let go of that!

Im not giving up on the citation just yet! I've got some education to do the next year or so, so I wont be able to start before after that anyway. I'll have plenty of time to research and think!

I tried to post a status update yesterday, that didnt go through, so ill try again:

-Jon, who sent me a PM earlier in this thread, helped me tweak the panel.cfg file to make all the displays undockable! :D And he also answered a lot of questions. Big thanks to him!

-I am also checking out mouse macros to flip the switches via FSUIPC, and that seems to work fine as well!

-Vince is like you say is a magician with his CNC machine and has offered to make the frames for all the PFDs, NDs, EICAS and RTUs. Mounted and tested with buttons and backlighting! Looks really good! And the price is right too. (They are the same as in the Lear45)
-He is also thinking about making a generic FMC, which is very interesting as well!


Right now there is one question that remains un-answered: Will i be able to read the status of the different buttons in any way, so that the hardware buttons will display the same thing?
E.g the Ground power button (AVAIL, ON) or when the Engine start buttons go dark after the engine starts up?

I did some more research on that last question, and used the logger in FSUIPC to find out what functions were sent when pressing different backlit buttions,
Here's what i found:
- The battery switches that switch between NORM and EMERG doesnt tell FS anything so i cant read the status of them. Maybe they can display NORM by default and EMERG if i press them? that should keep the status sync'd

- Same goes for the XTIE Switch.

- The Ground power buten has an AVAIL light and an ON light, it doesent tell FS anything either when i press that. But i could perhaps make the AVIL light be on whenever the parking brake is on? and ON whenever push it?

- The Engine start switches send a TOGGLE_ENGINE_STARTER1 (or 2) when it is pressed, and then when the engines have started successfully it sends the same message again. It should be possible to make the buttons light up according to this i guess.


Any opinions anyone? :)

[WhiteStar01]

I defenitely don't want to discourage you in any way. I really hope you have success!

On the FMC- There are available stand alone FMC that will do all above. The FADEC is actually DEC in the Lear so not required.

Mouse Macros should work for all switches. I have heard of many people having great success.

Yes Vince does AMAZING work. He is just getting ready to move so he will not be building for some time. I have to wait for my PFD bezels until he gets settled in his new home. Good to hear they are the same in the X- at least there is something available already.

With respect to LED output etc- I did speak with a programmer for the X (Not sure if it was ES or Wilco) and he discouraged me completely. He warned me that some functions such as display states were not a function of FSX- they are actually built into the model/panel/display only. I have no knowledge of how this works whatsoever but I took it to mean I would never be able to use output boards to drive LEDs etc. If this is true- It greatly complicates some functions. Simple Switch state LED's would be no problem as long as they do not interact with any other aircraft system (which many do). The easy ones can just be hard-coded using the board software (FDS boards make this super easy)

Your testing backs up what I was told if there is no interaction between the functions and FSX itself.

I wish you good luck in your project. The X is a fantastic bird. All the best.

[Danielk]

Thanks for the kind words and advice :)

As i said I'll have plenty of time to resarch this, so I won't rush into anything i can't complete.

I'll keep updating this thread as i find out more.

Do you have a blog or anything to follow your progress?


Cheers
Daniel.

[WhiteStar01]

No prob at all. I hope you make it work as there are many people who love the X. They like to go fast ;)

I have a build thread on Hangar45 you can check out (same username). It starts right from the beginning when I wanted to build/design everything myself. Several pages in- you will see I had totally switched over to using the methods/parts supplied by other members. I finally got it through my thick skull that building a new model from scratch is a tremendous undertaking. I haven't done much in awhile, but panels are arriving daily so I will get the bug again.

Best of luck!

[Danielk]

New reply from Eaglesoft... seems i might as well give up too. We'll see!


I'll say it again... what you want to do... the aircraft won't support. Period.

You aren't going to get any of the information out of the sim with regards to our indicators. They are 'run' by 100% custom code on many levels. This aircraft is far more complex than FS itself is and it wasn't designed to support a home cockpit with custom switches and indicators. Not at this price point.

_________________
Ed Wilson - Team Eaglesoft

[WhiteStar01]

That is exactly what I received as well. I did not want to breed animosity toward Eaglesoft, but they have a long way to go with customer relations.

I think if you search their forums, you can find the response they sent to me as well. I remember biting my tongue as I wanted to blast them for posting such a rude response. I have no problem at all with the fact that their product is not suited to our vision, but they should be more appreciative to their customers and not post rude responses.

Too bad really, but I'm glad I took the path I did. I'm gonna wire up some LEDs this afternoon, as you have prompted me to get moving on my build again :)

Got your msg about my vid- I'll send you the link to the no audio version. Apparently Pink Floyd is banned in your area. It's just a vid of the sim tossed together for it's first flight. It's an ugly setup, but I had to test it out :)

Cheers!

[Danielk]

I totally agree. They have a long way to go with customer service. They should be humble that anyone is THAT in-depth interested in their products.

Instead they answer really short; "That can't be done, and we won't help you". It was hard for me as well not complaining about their rudeness.

Anyway, as I've said before, i have a long timeframe for this build. I can't start for at least a year. Lots of things can happen in that time, and new interesting products can and will show up in that period.

The plans for FMC on the Lear45 avionics suite is really exciting. And if that gets done, I will really consider going for the Learjet! It's perfect with all the friendly help and support you can get from the hangar45 guys! :)

Have fun with your LED wiring WhiteStar, glad i bumped you back on track ;)

Cya :)

[brynjames]

This youtube video seems to show a Citatation X (is it?) with a GoFlight MCP Pro. I wonder if the link to the MCP Pro is done with some clever LUA programming.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTXqcWEyq2g

Can anyone tell if this is the Eaglesoft or the Wilco version?


--
Bryn

[Farkaskoma]

Its a Citation xls, freeware Aryus works version, with some costum panel. Citation x have T tail, larger engine, longer fuselage, angeled wing ect...