Would this work as far as networking?

[drum4no1]

Heres my quandary. When my cockpit is built it will most likely be 2 or 3 computers. We will call #1 the FS machine and 2 and 3 will be clients. I also have my non FS machine , wifes laptop and kids shared laptop.

I know most people set there cockpits up on a different network with a switch but I need internet on my main FS machine for active sky and FSacars for the VA I fly for. Now I know I can network the three cockpit machines together via a switch but in turn can that switch be hooked and be able to access internet from my router in the house? I imagine this would simply be 2 networks talking to each other.

If this wont work the only other option I can think of is to relocate the modem and router to the room where the cockpit is and run a single cat 5 line into the house for my machine. The wireless would be unaffected.

Scott

[fsaviator]

The simple answer is... yes. You can have any number of switches connected to your network. In fact, for most home setups, I would recommend switches instead of routers (downstream from the modem). Routers work in a first come first "hog" for the resources, while switches do just that... they share the bandwidth by rapidly switching between all the connections. It's more fair.

I have a router connected to my modem. In turn I have a switch connected to the router that splits my home network, call it.... HOME (wife, kids, printer, Xbox, DirecTV, NAS, etc). Under that switch, I have a USB powered switch just prior to my main computer so I can hook up my laptop (faster than Wireless). I have a second switch connected to my router that carries my FS Network, call it.... SIM. I've actually got another switch after my SIM switch as I ran out of ports, and popped another switch in give me more.

Switches don't care how many there are (for the most part, and for simple setups). the big thing is, switches have different speeds so if you put 10MB switch at the router, then 1000MB switches below that, you will be limited to 10MB into the router.

You can also interconnect within your intranet (inside side of the modem) networks. In other words, if you have a shared drive on your FS network you can access it from your HOME network and vice-versa. It's all in usernames and passwords.

The key to all this is that you do not use the same IP for two items.

This is the simple version, if you need any more help, let us know.

Warren

[Sean Nixon]

Warren

Thanks for that explanation. Its something I need to look at too. What would be my options and what would be the best option, in your opinion...?

My ADSL line comes into a combined wireless modem router. My home devices connect wirelessly to this.

My sim network, on a different floor, is 4 PC's networked through a switch. Being a switch, I have assigned individual IP address, as from memory, it doesn't do this via DHCP like the router does.

The sim PC's have built in wireless, so can connect to the wireless network if they need to, but:

1. The signal is quite weak and intermittent;

2. I have to disable the LAN port and enable the WAN port otherwise I get conflicts. Can I have a PC's LAN port and WAN port enabled at the same time?

My plan was to run a CAT5 from the wireless modem router upstairs to the sim switch downdstairs. Is this the right way to do it? Is there a better way?

Thanks

Sean

[fsaviator]

OK, I'll try to take this in small chunks. Let me caveat that I am not an IT tech, but I did stay at a holiday inn express:lol: Seriously though, I set up rudimentary networks all the time though. I've attached an image that should help.

My ADSL line comes into a combined wireless modem router. My home devices connect wirelessly to this.

No issues on your ADSL router. Whether you use wireless or ethernet (CAT5) to connect doesn't matter. What matters is what you have set in your router, through your router control software. We can cover this a little later if needed.

If you only have one router, you will only have one "Gateway" IP. That means that all your IPs have to be in the same range, regardless of whether they are Wireless or ethernet. The gateway is the one that usually looks like 192.168.0.1

All your individual system IPs will have to be in the range 192.168.0.... 0 thru 255 without using the same number twice.

DHCP should not allow that, and for most setups I recommend DHCP. Once your comfortable, you can play with turning it off and setting individual IPs.

All your systems, regardless of use can be accommodated here. This has nothing to do with your Family or Sim network. This is just the connections of your systems to the Intra/internet.

My sim network, on a different floor, is 4 PC's networked through a switch. Being a switch, I have assigned individual IP address, as from memory, it doesn't do this via DHCP like the router does.

There is no need to set IP addresses for switches. It is all done at the router. If that switch is connected to your ADSL router, you can leave it all as DHCP.

You should be able to continue using Wireless for your home/family connections and wired for the Sim.

I have to disable the LAN port and enable the WAN port otherwise I get conflicts. Can I have a PC's LAN port and WAN port enabled at the same time?

I'm not sure I understand this... where are you disabling LAN/WAN? each of your systems has an Ethernet port (RG45), a Wireless connection, or both. You can have both wireless and wired connected at the same time. They both need different IP addresses though (DHCP will take care of that). You can also bridge the connections if you wanted for more throughput.

My plan was to run a CAT5 from the wireless modem router upstairs to the sim switch downdstairs. Is this the right way to do it? Is there a better way?

Yes. This is the BEST way. If you have the ability to run the cable, I would. If it is going to take a lot of work to run that cable (i.e. cutting into walls etc), then I would run CAT6 for future expansion.

Once you are connected, either change your "Sim Network" to DHCP so that the router will pull it in, or alternately, turn DHCP OFF at the router and assign IP addresses to all your systems individually. If all your household systems stay at home and in one place, that is how I would go about it.

Finally, the way you handle the separate networks is by assigning workgroups within windows. For instance, your FS Server PC may be called FS_Server, and me be a part of the FS_SIM workgroup. Your home computers may be.... SEANS_PC, or SEANS_KIDS_PC and be part of the SEANS_HOME workgroup. That is all set in windows.

You can cross access workgroups by going through NETWORK PLACES. You will have to provide a username and password to access it, or you can Map the location for quick access.

For instance, on my SIM network, I have a shared folder on my storage hard drive. this is where I save all my flights, flightplans, backup config files etc. Anything I have t access with/from multiple systems. I also have mapped that share folder to my main home PC, so I can drop FS realted files I see while surfing that I want. They are then instantly accessible at my SIM PCs.

Hope this helps. Sorry for the length.

Warren

[drum4no1]

Warren, your diagram looks exactly like what im planning and it looks like it would work just fine. What brand switch do you use? I would like to keep the cost of the switch as low as possible.

[fsaviator]

I have several... My own network is slightly more complicated. I'm currently using a D-Link DES 1105 on the SIM part of the network. it's what I had laying around.

I have a Netgear GS108 coming off of my router which I was originally using, but it turned out to be overkill for the flight sim. I needed that throughput on my home network once I hooked up the kids Xbox and the Directv. That is a really nice switch though. Got it at Newegg i think.

[Sean Nixon]

Thanks Warren, I'll look into that in more detail over the weekend (Bank Holiday here in the UK).

What I meant about WAN and LAN at the same time, is those PC's won't access the internet wirelessly, I have to disable the ethernet port 1st. Perhaps I just need to tell IE to use the wireless connection for access??? It's as if it's trying to access thru the LAN and can't see the net???

Cheers

Sean

[fsaviator]

Thanks Warren, I'll look into that in more detail over the weekend (Bank Holiday here in the UK).

What I meant about WAN and LAN at the same time, is those PC's won't access the internet wirelessly, I have to disable the ethernet port 1st. Perhaps I just need to tell IE to use the wireless connection for access??? It's as if it's trying to access thru the LAN and can't see the net???

Cheers

Sean

I see what you mean. You're Ethernet connection is being used to access the SIM network through your switch. You've been using the Wireless adapter to connect to the internet, albeit with a weak connection.

Yes, you can have both adapters (ethernet and wireless) working at the same time. In fact, if that weak wireless connection is satisfactory for what you use it for, then you're good to go. Go into the Connection properties for your web browser and select that particular connection as the default connection for the internet and you should be good.

[Sean Nixon]

How do I force IE to only use the wireless connection. It wants to use the LAN, but that's not connected to the outside world???

[fsaviator]

Alright... we are reaching the limit of my abilities. As I stepped back to remember how to do this, I realize that newer versions of windows seem to missing some features. I'm not sure what version you are using. The long and the short of it is:

Under Internet Options in the IE Tools menu, you should be able to set your wireless connection as the default (earlier versions of windows XP).
In Vista, you need to actually go to the Manage Network Connections and right-click on the wireless connection and select it as default.
I'm still trying to find how in Windows 7 (I personally just installed 7 on my laptop so I'm still figuring it out).

Truthfully though, if you have the ability to do it without knocking out walls I would say your best bet is to run a CAT5/6 cable from your router to your switch that runs FS. Performance will be much better, and setup is much easier.

Warren

[flatlandpilot]

How do I force IE to only use the wireless connection. It wants to use the LAN, but that's not connected to the outside world???

Hi Sean,
All of these would help:
- disable the lan connection.
- try to get the wifi connection as first in the binding order.
- change the default gateway in windows.

I would go for changing the gateway address.
some info about default gateway use under MS:
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb878104.aspx

tip for windows users:
open a dos box (type cmd in the start menu)
then type: ipconfig and press enter.
that's the only place where you can trust windows ip settings ;)

[graemesmith]

How do I force IE to only use the wireless connection. It wants to use the LAN, but that's not connected to the outside world???
WOAH! Backup. There is some well intended but possibly (don't get offended folks) wrong information here. I run an IT shop so:

Everything FSAVIATOR/Warren - has told you is GOOD
FLATLANDPILOT is taking you where you do not need to go!! Politely and constructively said.....

Sean - You are using a router to split down your internet for various users then there are two sides to the router:

WAN - Wide Area Network - the side is provided by your ISP and is probably a cable or DSL modem that "feeds" the router.

LAN - Local Area Network - the side of the router that all your computers are sitting on. They can be fed by HARD wire or Wireless built into the router- either way - that is LAN side. your computers talk to LAN side. The router gets the Internet from WAN and feeds it to LAN. That is its job. You want to connect your computers to LAN.

Warren's diagram is absolutely correct and the way to set it up if your ADSL router does not have enough ports in it to get every computer a home run wire back to the ADSL router - which is the PREFERRED method.

Put all computers on DHCP and reboot them all till you have everything working. You can think about fixed IP's later f there is a specific reason to. So far I don't see one.

Remember the Wireless is also LAN side. Your Internet Explorer setting is CORRECT and should not be changed.

There is nothing wrong with wired and wireless together. All flavors of Windows sort it out as needed. As hard wire is faster than wireless - don't disable the hard wire ports. USE them!!

Now - if you don't have Internet at some computers and IPCONFIG is telling you you have a real IP address then something else is wrong.

Check the following real IT shop solutions in no particular order (this assumes your ADSL Router is a DHCP server handing out IP's)

- Internet Explorer connection settings - remove any proxy server settings
- Uncheck "Automatically Detect Settings" - because it usually screws life up. It manages fine on its own.
- If IPCONFIG gives you an IP address starting with 169.xxx.xxx.xxx - you are not getting an IP by DHCP from the router. A hint of this is a long pause during boot of the computer while it tries. Check wires by substituting known good wires.
- You wired all the pairs of the Cat5e or Cat 6 cable into any RJ45 plugs you made up. You didn't and only did 4 wires like older Cat3? Go back and do it right and wire to a standard like ANSI/TIA/EIA T568B (Google it) for everything you make up.
- Wires look OK - test it with a tester and make sure all pairs ARE talking.

Couple of other fallacies I've read in this thread:

Stacking one router on top of another (say to get wireless from a wireless router) is a recipe for headaches and no connections unless you ae using Enterprise gear and have a good understanding of TCP/IP routing. Don't do it.

Somewhere else I saw someone say you could stack a switch on a switch on a switch. Not if you want everything to work you can't - there are theoretical and practical limits. Stick with Warren's proposed setup.

Ruffled feathers anywhere - woah - this is constructively meant on the basis of information given - no harm intended.

[Sean Nixon]

Thanks for the detailed info Graeme.

I'll try this out tomorrow and report back.

FlatLandPilot, thanks for the advice too. The wireless connection works fine when I disable the ethernet connection, but I need this for my sim network to speak to each other. As soon as I re-enable it, the internet stops working! :???:

[fsaviator]

Gents,
please... we're not talking about the end of the world here... nothing presented by any of the helpful members will open Sean's network up to attack, or wipe out humanity in a single blow. Let us try to temper the tone of the posts.

This is a forum:

Noun

S: (n) forum (a public meeting or assembly for open discussion)
S: (n) forum, assembly, meeting place (a public facility to meet for open discussion)

The key terms here are open discussion. Forums thrive because of their members willingness to start discussions and to contribute to ongoing discussions.

Finally, we need to try not to get caught up in the emotions of things.... like I'm doing now, so I'll end it with that.

[Sean Nixon]

Good morning folks.

Warren, I don't sense any temper or animosity in this thread, all suggestions are accepted equally with the caveat “at your own risk”!

I've been experimenting this morning and taking everyone’s advice/suggestions into consideration, may have solved my problem. Here's what I did:

First of all, my four sim PC’s are connected together through a Netgear FS608v3 unmanaged switch. I have to set each PC’s IP address for the LAN adaptor manually otherwise I run into problems with windows assigning an address in the 169.254.xxx.xxx range, which doesn’t work.

Now initially, I was setting these manually configured IP address in the 192.168.0.x range but I found that my wireless modem/router (upstairs on a separate network) was also assigning IP addresses in this range. Perhaps that was the conflict???

So I reassigned the sim network’s LAN IP addresses in the 10.0.0.x range and the problem seems to have been resolved. All the PC’s can now see each other on the SIMULATOR network (LAN), and each can now access the internet via the wireless router upstairs.

I’m a bit confused about the unmanaged switch though. The documentation states this is plug and play and says nothing about manually assigning IP addresses (hardly plug and play). Am I missing something here? Or is that the norm for unmanaged switches?

For the record, all PC's are using Windows XP Home SP3 and IE8.

Also, I acknowledge my misuse of the term WAN, which led to Graeme’s explanation.

Let me know your thoughts and thanks for everyone’s input.

Sean

[flatlandpilot]

problems with windows assigning an address in the 169.254.xxx.xxx range, which doesn’t work.
Getting a 169.x.x.x number is typical for a computer being on DHCP mode
but no DHCP server can be seen.

In my opinion you better give youre machines a fixed IP
and gateway outgoing traffic over the desired gateway address

For security freaks:
you can place youre simpit computers in another network range,
but then you have to widen the subnetmask. for outgoing traffic
(on the router and all the simpit computers)
when you work like this none of the non-sim computers can ever acces
a sim computer which is save.

for caculating a subnet:
http://www.subnet-calculator.com/cidr.php
you can see that when U use a mask of 255.255.254.0
that 192.168.0.x and 192.168.1.x addresses can see each other.

some more info on networking:
http://books.google.nl/books?id=bnVGA8ChFGsC&pg=PA94&lpg=PA94&dq=chaining+switches&source=bl&ots=6t8sZxFyId&sig=dp0-aky3OmwRs0MQaGyMr1uwL-k&hl=nl&ei=e4YDTOiQJp6V4gb41fTLDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CEIQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=chaining%20switches&f=false

[fsaviator]

Hi Sean... you may be right. I probably just read more into it than was really necessary.

I misuse terms all the time... As I get older I forget some of the terms that I used to know, and find myself substituting technical terms like "thing-a-ma-jig" and such.

First, congrats on getting the system working as it should (to a point?).


I tend to agree with Flatlandpilot here.

While a little more trouble, I tend to manually assign IPs myself. It gives you a little more security also.

As for the switch... having said I'm not an expert (and understanding that we are not talking about a high-fa-luting, all the bells and whistles, top-end, managed corporate switch), I've never had to worry about IP's with an UNMANAGED switch (see, I'd forgotten there was such a thing). They are plug-n-play. All they do is connect your system to the router/modem. All the IP business is done at the computer and the router ends. I'm sure there are things to keep in mind with switches but for a simple network like what you have that should not apply.

For instance... you should be able to take a computer that is plugged into the unmanaged switch and plug it directly into the router without any issues (and vice versa). Any IP deconfliction should already be done before you put the switch into the mix.

Now initially, I was setting these manually configured IP address in the 192.168.0.x range but I found that my wireless modem/router (upstairs on a separate network) was also assigning IP addresses in this range. Perhaps that was the conflict???

It's hard to say if that was the conflict. If you have DHCP turned on at the router, then yes, it will assign what it wants to each computer. Keep in mind, a router using DHCP doesn't care about networks.... It sees a computer trying to access it. If it receives the correct authentication information, it will assign it an IP and grant it access, regardless of wired or wireless (this is where war-driving comes in, and why I tend to turn DHCP off).

There is one more thing that may have been the problem... firewall software. If you have any 3rd party or windows firewall or internet security software installed, it may have been blocking access to the computer (either direction, both directions, or just one direction).

Cheers!

Warren