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Sean Nixon
02-06-2010, 03:55 PM
I've had a few requests for photo's of my curved screen, so here they are.

I didn't want to construct a 'proper' curved screen straight away, as I was unsure on size, curvature, etc. etc. So I decided to make a kind of mock-up, quick and cheap (around 15GBP and 2 hours). It turned out better than I expected...

http://www.mycockpit.org/photopost/data/536/Picture_178_Large_.jpg

http://www.mycockpit.org/photopost/data/536/Picture_179_Large_.jpg
Sol7 after a quick correction

http://www.mycockpit.org/photopost/data/536/Picture_181_Large_.jpg

http://www.mycockpit.org/photopost/data/536/Picture_182_Large_.jpg

http://www.mycockpit.org/photopost/data/536/Picture_183_Large_.jpg

Matt Olieman
02-06-2010, 04:13 PM
Seen your pics in the Gallery.... WOW nice, love to be in the center of that :) :) :)

Nice Sean, thanks for the pics.

Matt Olieman

Steve A
02-06-2010, 05:23 PM
Thats cool sean, can i ask you if you know if sol7 can work with 2 screens and a dualhead 2go as thats the route i have gone, for financial and space reasons, but looking at the curve you have created i would love to try it out with 2 beamers to see if its better than the straight screen i have at the moment. What a result for 15 quid, Im using the missus best table cloth lol

Sean Nixon
02-06-2010, 06:39 PM
Thanks Matt & Steve.

Steve, Sol7 definately works with the dual head (it also works with a single projector).

I am helping a local sim builder set up a dual head system in a single garage (about 8ft wide). Sounds like it may be similar to what you want to do. I'll keep you informed of our progress.

Airhogg
02-06-2010, 08:38 PM
Hi Sean,
That's awesome. Is that rear projection and what is the height of the image itself? Thanks!

PHTAT
02-07-2010, 06:19 AM
Waauw!!!

Sean this is even better than i thought! it looks superb!
didnt think that the resolution used would give an image like this.

i will keep you informed about the project, hmmm... you did tackle my urge to go on a holiday with these pictures :roll: ;-)


Wil.

tasmanet
02-07-2010, 06:30 AM
Hi

What is the width of the room ??

Tas

Sean Nixon
02-07-2010, 06:32 AM
Its forward projection, you can see one of the projectors bottom right (near the beer can!).

I plan to flip the projectors over and hang them from the ceiling, so the image will end up nearer the ceiling rather the floor, by the same proportions as those in the photographs.

Here are the dimensions as per the photos:

Height of image = 1650mm or 65"

Width of each image = 2600mm or 102" (x3 = 7800mm or 306")

Projector throw = 2440mm or 96" (Acer X1230S Short Throw)

Height of room = 2500mm or 98.5"

Width of room = 5700mm or 224.5"

Gap at bottom of image = 190mm or 7.5"

Gap at top of image = 660mm or 26"

BHawthorne
02-07-2010, 11:00 AM
Looks great. Pretty much identical to my setup. I just bent plastic trim and tacked it to the walls and ceiling and put up raw canvas dropcloth for mine. Dirt cheap and it works great while dialing in everything. :)

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/1572/dscf3753.jpg

I've been running mine since around November. I'm using Optoma EX525ST short throw projectors. The pic above is a bit dated. In that pic I'd yet to ceiling mount the projectors or trim the screen and tighten up the slack in the screen.

ian@737ng.co.uk
02-07-2010, 01:23 PM
hello capt. nixon.......
i'm totally 'bombed out'. this is amazing! it's just not fair, you dont have to compete with the bride's car for space :o
i would be VERY INTERESTED in how you get on with your buddy and the 8' width because (as you know) i am
governed by a width constraint. keep us posted please.
thanks for making me insanely jealous :o
have a great week sean.... regards .... ian

Sean Nixon
02-07-2010, 01:56 PM
Thanks for the responses guys. Really appreciated.

@ Wil - I'm jealous you're off on holiday :-) . Anywhere nice (and HOT!)? Have a good one. And no pinching the sheets off the beds!

@ Brad - It's partly your fault! I was no where near thinking of starting my visuals until I saw photo's of yours.

@ Ian - It's mainly your fault! I was no where near thinking of building a sim until I saw yours! :p

Will post back with progress on the smaller screen. Don't build your hopes up too much tho. I hate being the bringer of bad news.

Sean

mpl330
02-07-2010, 05:18 PM
I'm using Optoma EX525ST short throw projectors.

Hi Brian,

Do you find your image has a 'grid' running across it with the ex525st?
I know I am only sat about 1.5m from the projected image (and it is onto a white painted plaster wall) but I have a noticable 'grid' from the projector showing on the image...

Any suggestions - do I need a cloth screen?

Sean, those visuals look great!

Cheers
Mike

Sean Nixon
02-07-2010, 06:01 PM
Mike

How big is the grid? Is it not the individual pixels you are seeing?

They are visible in my setup, more so against a light blue sky.

kermit
02-21-2010, 06:10 AM
Hi , do you know the minimum curved screen you can use ,
My sim is placed in a room with the following dimensions;
Height of room = 2500mm
Width of room = 2300mm
Nose of pit to wall/window about 1600mm
Can this be done by using sol7 and short trow?
greetz

km3099
08-11-2010, 12:37 PM
Way cool setup. Im from an air cadet group in newcastle and i have been put in charge of flight sim instruction and development, could you please provide details on the way you have set this up and what hardware you are using.

Thanks, Keith

Sean Nixon
08-11-2010, 02:57 PM
Hi Keith

My setup is 3 short throw projectors connected to one PC via a Matrox Triple Head 2 Go. As I'm using a curved screen, I need to use a program called NThusim to uncurve the image. You can get away without this software if you project onto flat screens placed at an angle to each other, but I've not seen that in action, although I gather the results are very similar.

Microsoft Flight Simulator, in my case FS2004, provides the visuals.

You can get very good outside visuals using one or two projectors too, but it impacts on the actual image size, or more specifically, the field of view.

Sean

km3099
08-11-2010, 03:53 PM
thanks for the info, and yeah i was planing on using flat screens as its what ive used on RAF simulators (Griffin, Hawk, E-3) in the past, how much field of view would you say you were getting on with your current setup?

Sean Nixon
08-11-2010, 04:04 PM
My visuals are not finished yet, it's a temporary setup to get me going. I'll be aiming for a minimum 180 degree FOV, more likely 225 degree, using 5 seperate outside views much the same as Ivar Hestnes has done. Check out his website here:

http://www.ivarhestnes.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=109:225visual&catid=60:visuals&Itemid=53

CessnaGuy
08-16-2010, 10:41 AM
Would it be possible to make a much smaller version of this, ie something that will fit round a cessna type aircraft, considering the cessna is pretty much a meter wide, I am assuming that that a dual monitor setup projecting 90 degrees left and right would work quite well and require less space!

Just food for thought!

fsaviator
08-16-2010, 12:05 PM
I have come to the conclusion that I need a bigger house!

That is an awesome setup

Sean Nixon
08-16-2010, 12:57 PM
Would it be possible to make a much smaller version of this, ie something that will fit round a cessna type aircraft, considering the cessna is pretty much a meter wide, I am assuming that that a dual monitor setup projecting 90 degrees left and right would work quite well and require less space!

Just food for thought!

Something like this:

http://www.gorgewindsinc.com/graphics/TruVision170.Lo.jpg

I think it would be quite straight forward, note this setup still uses 3 projectors. And they'd have to have a pretty short throw on them.

CessnaGuy
08-16-2010, 01:29 PM
wow, that is cool, just a little on the big side still, if I had the room that that would be a dream!

Sean Nixon
08-16-2010, 02:01 PM
I'm pretty sure you could tighten the radius a little and still get good results.

And two projectors shouldn't present a problem.

cjellwood
09-06-2010, 03:22 PM
Sorry if I am misguided here but a friend of mine who does multiple projector setups for music events told me that for tight curved screens only rear projection would work otherwise a fish eye effect occurs. When using front projection he said that the maximum curve can only be that of the projector lense curve.

Just my 2 pence worth (that is what it really is worth lol). I will find out myself soon due to requiring a 2 projector setup

Chris

jskibo
09-06-2010, 03:31 PM
Sorry if I am misguided here but a friend of mine who does multiple projector setups for music events told me that for tight curved screens only rear projection would work otherwise a fish eye effect occurs. When using front projection he said that the maximum curve can only be that of the projector lense curve.

Just my 2 pence worth (that is what it really is worth lol). I will find out myself soon due to requiring a 2 projector setup

Chris

That's why you use nthusim software to correct the warp........

cjellwood
09-06-2010, 04:40 PM
This is what I mean by keeping to the angle of the lense. Short throw projectors allow tighter curves due to having a more bulbous lense.

http://www.leons-world.com/img/proj.gif

It seems to be a general rule of thumb that does not seem to get much mention in the projection threads and makes sense from a theoretical point of view or whichever way you look at it. Nthusim is great at doing what it does but the rules of how light travels and bounces off the screen still need to be adhered to.

My pit will start with only a slightly curved single projection screen so will test this theory out asap and post results in the relevant thread.

Chris

Sean Nixon
09-07-2010, 04:27 PM
Chris

I wouldn't 'worry' too much about the theory side of things. 3 x short throw projectors + Nthusim + front projection works a treat. In fact, if you don't use short throw, you may run into problems getting the projectors far enough away from the screen without elements of the structure getting in the way.

cjellwood
09-07-2010, 04:45 PM
Chris

I wouldn't 'worry' too much about the theory side of things. 3 x short throw projectors + Nthusim + front projection works a treat. In fact, if you don't use short throw, you may run into problems getting the projectors far enough away from the screen without elements of the structure getting in the way.

whilst playing around with a small pico projector today (and some foamex as the screen) I see that the theory is correct. A curved screen can be made without nthusim if the lense curve is maintained on the screen bend, but like you said; the issue then becomes distance and obstructions :( Good news is that the screens can have the top and bottom curved inwards too if kept in line with the lense curve which is interesting. I might pay a visit to my fiberglass fingered friend to see what he can pull out of his hat with regards a 'top and side' curved screen. One would need to get it right first time otherwise the screen would end up as a very expensive half pipe for the kids lol

Btw, Foamex is a brilliant projection screen material.

Chris

Sean Nixon
09-07-2010, 05:00 PM
Btw, Foamex is a brilliant projection screen material.

Yes, I have a sample here too. ;)

cjellwood
09-08-2010, 12:25 PM
Whilst at my local sign writers today I noticed they produce big displays that are curved like this one in the picture

http://www.leons-world.com/img/screen.jpg

Matt or gloss white clear plain displays are available and the frame behind it collapses into a tidy pile when it is not needed. The display sheet is magnetic and simply locks to the frame! Is this a perfect solution for curved screens or what! Costs around 300 for a plain screen and stand I think

Here is more info http://www.odysseyexhibitions.co.uk/evolution_quick_pop_up.html

Chris

Sean Nixon
09-08-2010, 12:36 PM
Chris, that looks really good. I assume they make the displays to suit each customers requirements. What's the company?

Sean

cjellwood
09-08-2010, 12:46 PM
Chris, that looks really good. I assume they make the displays to suit each customers requirements. What's the company?

Sean

The company I was working with when I see it was www.sg4.co.uk in Southend but they seem to be available everywhere if you google 'curved pop up stand'.

Sign writing is an expensive industry and they are milking the prices for these so I am looking for a cheap supplier now

Chris

cjellwood
09-08-2010, 01:03 PM
They seem to be giving them away on ebay http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Pop-Up-Exhibition-stand-2-4-high-x-3-0m-wide-/330468665266?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4cf177a7b2

That one is just down the road from me but I dont have 125 :(

Chris

Clive
09-08-2010, 02:11 PM
I have one Sean if you want to see one .....the usual four x three set up is probably not wide enough for a sim but you can, I believe get, wider pop ups.
Not seen them as cheap as 125.00?? they start from around 900.00

Clive

Sean Nixon
09-08-2010, 04:55 PM
Maybe show me on Saturday.

cjellwood
09-09-2010, 02:12 PM
Just the stand (3x4) can be bought for as little as 90 new from direct suppliers but without a screen so dont be shelling out large wods of cash for this setup. I am buying a frame next week and will get a price for 3x4 screen sooner

Chris

kermit
09-10-2010, 02:43 AM
Hi ,
can anyone tell me what`s the minium radius for a crispy 180 degree angle view ,
for a 2 or 3 shortthrow beamer setup please.
I have only a smal room for my setup of 2,3meters wide, height 2,2 meters and 3,5 meter long.
And because I have parked a real cessna cockpit ,I have only a total radius of about 2.3meter.
will that be sufficient to set it up with sol7 or others?
for now I have a 3 monitor setup ,but somehow I`m missing something
greetz

N242AM
10-05-2010, 11:29 AM
I might have missed it in the past four pages, but how do you plan to have just two front views?

FS9/X displays front, front left, front right, left, right, etc. Since these are quarter views, how do you plan to to display just two? Are you doing front and front left? What am I missing?

Airhogg
10-05-2010, 07:31 PM
I might have missed it in the past four pages, but how do you plan to have just two front views?

FS9/X displays front, front left, front right, left, right, etc. Since these are quarter views, how do you plan to to display just two? Are you doing front and front left? What am I missing?

You can use 2 projectors (or monitors) with 1 single front view that would span the distance of the 2 displays and be centered where the images meet.

rjvcarvalho
10-06-2010, 10:34 AM
This is what I mean by keeping to the angle of the lense. Short throw projectors allow tighter curves due to having a more bulbous lense.

http://www.leons-world.com/img/proj.gif

It seems to be a general rule of thumb that does not seem to get much mention in the projection threads and makes sense from a theoretical point of view or whichever way you look at it. Nthusim is great at doing what it does but the rules of how light travels and bounces off the screen still need to be adhered to.

My pit will start with only a slightly curved single projection screen so will test this theory out asap and post results in the relevant thread.

Chris

Hello,

I think that it is not mentioned a lot because it is not that simple, normaly the projector lens is concave not convex or a mix of a concave and convex lens, it's made to project a flat image, not the one you have on that diagram, if that was the case the projected image would be a circle made by a projecting cone, a projector actualy throws out a sort of a inverted piramid... What you mention is to do with zoom factors just like in cameras where the lens is used to do the oposite, project a image from a spherical lens on to a flat sensor.

The short throw projectors have a wider lens to correct the fact that it is placed much closer to the image source, if you continue the two lines in your scheme they intersect, the closer the lens is to the intersection the more apart they can become, the wider the screen area.

http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/5056/projlp.jpg

"A concave lens is exactly the opposite with the outer surfaces curving inward, so it makes parallel light rays curve outward or diverge. That's why concave lenses are sometimes called diverging lenses.

Concave lens: ray diagram showing how a concave lens makes light rays diverge from a focus
http://cdn.explainthatstuff.com/concavelens.gif
Photo: A concave lens makes light rays diverge (spread out).

Concave lenses are used in things like TV projectors to make light rays spread out into the distance."

Hope it helps.:p

N242AM
10-06-2010, 05:38 PM
You can use 2 projectors (or monitors) with 1 single front view that would span the distance of the 2 displays and be centered where the images meet.

Ok, but isn't spanning an operating system limitation? I use Vista which I believe does not support spanning. Does XP or Win7 allow this with FSX?

Airhogg
10-07-2010, 09:58 AM
Ok, but isn't spanning an operating system limitation? I use Vista which I believe does not support spanning. Does XP or Win7 allow this with FSX?

Yes and no. It is dependent on the operating system. I'm not sure which ones will or will not span horizontally, but I'm sure there is a thread out there on it. A great option that will work, that is not OS dependent, would be to use a Matrox Dual Head2Go or a TH2Go (if you want 3 screens). This is the option I used for a long time and it works very well. You can span a single view across all the displays or you can open separate windows for each display to give a greater FOV (all depending on how far your displays are to your eyes and how much curvature you're using). You can go to user Hans Krohn's website who explains this in detail. www.hanskrohn.com

Also, user BHawthorne is very knowledgeable on projection and it's effects on curved surfaces. I would recommend looking him up as well. There are actually several threads that discuss just that.

I used a TH2Go with 3 projectors and 3 separate views for a full 180 degree view on a curved screen with SOL7 (now Nthusim) for about a year. This worked very nicely and the effect was very immersive, but it became a bit of a hassle to set up and the alignment of the projectors would often have to be adjusted. Others may not have the same issues I experienced. I actually think it was the model projector I was using, but for quicker setup and simplicity, I've moved to a single 3D 73" 1080p projection screen tv.

I hope this helps, but please ask further if not! :D

N242AM
10-07-2010, 02:12 PM
Yes, it does help. Thanks.

I also forgot to add that I recall reading somewhere that spanning does not increase the field of view in FS. I only spreads or stretches the single selected view across two or more displays. Correct?

So, I guess I'm sort of back to my original question of how to show two forward views, so that where the displays join in the middle, is at the same location as the aircrafts center window frame. Plus, the field of view is greater than one forward view.

Is that possible?

Airhogg
10-07-2010, 03:38 PM
Yes, it does help. Thanks.

I also forgot to add that I recall reading somewhere that spanning does not increase the field of view in FS. I only spreads or stretches the single selected view across two or more displays. Correct?

So, I guess I'm sort of back to my original question of how to show two forward views, so that where the displays join in the middle, is at the same location as the aircrafts center window frame. Plus, the field of view is greater than one forward view.

Is that possible?

Using 2 or 3 monitors and a single view window does increase the FOV vs a single display. There is a VERY slight stretching effect if only using 1 view window across these 2 or 3 displays, but it is minor and definately does increase the FOV. Below is a link to an image of a TH2Go with a single front view window. Notice the loss of FOV you would have if only using the middle display.

Your idea of using 2 displays would center the cockpit/runway right where the bezels meet if using a DualHead2Go and only 1 view window. The cockpit would span nicely across the 2 displays. However, using two forward views would center you at 1 of the 2 display centers... (not center of the entire span as you desire.)

http://www.matrox.com/graphics/surroundgaming/media/supported_games/screenshots/flight_sim2004/FlightSimQ3.jpg

BTW, you will need to edit your fsx.cfg file to make the entry about enabling widescreen=true. (I'm not sure the exact phraseology, but there are threads on that too!)

Sean Nixon
08-12-2012, 10:25 AM
Almost 2 years since my prototype screen, and today I finally finished my permanent one. I purchased a custom made 30ft x 7ft projector screen from Carl's Place...

https://www.carlofet.com

Here's the result:

6873

I'll be posting a quick tutorial on how I built the support for it, but suffice to say, this is a very easy and cost effective way to get the perfect​ projection screen.

Sean

cestlavie2010
09-04-2012, 05:17 PM
great what is the size of room I minimal need....have same 2 person cockpit as you but now with 7x27" screens...

Sean Nixon
09-05-2012, 01:51 AM
My room is 4000mm wide by 3310mm deep. Floor to ceiling is 2450mm. Sim base to ceiling 2250mm.

Screen radius is 2000mm and touches the front and sides of the room.

cestlavie2010
09-05-2012, 04:17 PM
ok just measured: i am 300mm short :roll:

Sean Nixon
09-05-2012, 04:24 PM
In what direction?

cestlavie2010
09-05-2012, 04:32 PM
370x300 about....

Sean Nixon
09-05-2012, 04:46 PM
Sorry, I don't understand what you are saying. What does 370x300 mean? You said you were 300mm short, but 300mm short where? 300mm is not a lot and you should still be ok.

Sean

Sean Nixon
09-05-2012, 04:49 PM
Oh, do you mean your room is 370cm x 300cm? So you are 300mm short in both directions?

That shouldn't matter too much, 300cm depth will be enough, my 330mm includes space to add the jump seats later.

370cm width will make the screen radius a little tighter, but not by much.

Sean

OmniAtlas
10-11-2012, 05:15 AM
Hey Sean, any luck putting up your tutorial yet? I'll be looking forward to reading it, thanks.

Ben

Sean Nixon
10-11-2012, 03:54 PM
Hi Ben, no I haven't, but saying as you ask, I'll post some details here, but it won't be until the weekend I'm afraid.

Sean

OmniAtlas
10-25-2012, 06:59 AM
Hi Sean, thanks! patiently awaiting :)

HondaCop
11-16-2012, 01:39 AM
Sean, this thread is awesome!! I have also contacted Joe today from Carls Place and will probably place the order later today. My screen will be 21.6ft long by 5ft tall for a 225 degree view. The radius is 5.5 feet.

The screen will have grommets every 6 inches. Since the screen will be cylindrical, will the screen material remain crease/wrinkle free due to the curve?

Sean Nixon
11-16-2012, 02:59 AM
Hi Efrain

Absolutely no problems with creases or wrinkles. There will be a few at first due to shipping, but 99% of those disappear as soon as you start to pull the screen tight. I had a couple of more stubborn creases that I had planned to take care of later with an iron (carefully), but after hanging for a few weeks, they've dropped out of their own accord and the screen is perfect.

I dont know how your planning to hang the screen, or what size your projected image is likely to be, but I would recommend oversizing the screen. Mine goes from floor to ceiling (rather than just the height of the image) and extends as far back behind the windows as I could go. Better to have too much than not enough. But the main reason was that for me, it was easier to construct the frame close to the ceiling and floor, indeed, that's where it's at it's strongest, so I tied the screen at those points. It has the added benefit of hiding everything from my forward an side vision. Also allows for future expansion if projectors ever improve.

@ OmniAtlas. I shall try and put up a summary this weekend, sorry. Feel free to ask if you have any specific questions.

Sean

HondaCop
11-16-2012, 03:12 AM
Hi Efrain

Absolutely no problems with creases or wrinkles. There will be a few at first due to shipping, but 99% of those disappear as soon as you start to pull the screen tight. I had a couple of more stubborn creases that I had planned to take care of later with an iron (carefully), but after hanging for a few weeks, they've dropped out of their own accord and the screen is perfect.

I dont know how your planning to hang the screen, or what size your projected image is likely to be, but I would recommend oversizing the screen. Mine goes from floor to ceiling (rather than just the height of the image) and extends as far back behind the windows as I could go. Better to have too much than not enough. But the main reason was that for me, it was easier to construct the frame close to the ceiling and floor, indeed, that's where it's at it's strongest, so I tied the screen at those points. It has the added benefit of hiding everything from my forward an side vision. Also allows for future expansion if projectors ever improve.

@ OmniAtlas. I shall try and put up a summary this weekend, sorry. Feel free to ask if you have any specific questions.

Sean

Thanks for the reply, Sean... As for hanging up the screen, I'm planning on building it as follows. My ceiling is 8ft tall so I plan on purchasing sixteen 2"x3"x8' studs and placing them 16" apart from one another along the line I will draw outlining the curve I need. The screen is 21.6' long, so the studs at 16" will be perfect. I will secure them to the floor and ceiling.

I will then use 3/4" PVC tubing for the actual frame and secure it to the studs by using metal brackets at every stud.This will give the PVC frame the curve and it will be very sturdy. Then of course, I will bungee the screen to the PVC frame.

What you think?

Sean Nixon
11-17-2012, 09:02 AM
That's pretty much how I did mine. For the benefit of others, here's what I did:

Find centre point of screen radius and mark on ceiling

Drop a string line from this mark and mark centre point of screen radius on floor

I was fortunate enough to have some Hilti channel lying around...

7246

... so I cut a length just over my screen radius. My radius is 2 metre, so I made the length of channel 2050mm. As luck would have it, the pre-drilled holes are every 50mm, so I secured one end of the channel to the centre point on the floor, then placing a pencil in the 2000mm hole, I drew the arc on the floor. Repeat for the ceiling (I found a helping hand was beneficial for all work above head level). Of course, a similar result could be gained with a pencil and piece of string, but be sure to get the pencil arc as accurate as you can.

At pre-determined intervals around the curve, fix vertical studs from floor to ceiling. Use the commonly found timber studs used for internal wall construction (look for straight ones when buying). Efrain is using 16" centres, I used 600mm (24"). The front edge of the stud wants to be on and behind the lines marked on the floor and ceiling. Tip when cutting studs. Cut them ever so slightly longer than perfect, no more than a couple of millimetres. This will enable the studs to be jammed in place, making alignment and fixing MUCH simpler. If the stud is too short, it'll fall over as soon as you let go making the whole process much harder. I used a cheap laser level...

7241

...and using a hammer, tap the stud until it's exactly where you want it and vertical in both planes, then fix it to the floor and ceiling. I used this type of fixing...

7242

I considered mounting the conduit brackets to the studs, as Efrain plans to do, but wanted more flexibility, so decided to fix an MDF fixing strip to the studs. I bought an 8' x 4' sheet of 9mm thick MDF and got the place where I bought it to cut it (free service) into 8' x 5" strips. I think I ended up with 10 strips. Then I screwed these strips to the studs at floor level and ceiling level and up both ends, forming a complete rectangle. This would enable me to fix as many conduit brackets as necessary, without being tied to the stud positions. It also gave me a 5" tolerance all the way round the screen perimeter, should the screen bungees require adjustment.

I then painted the entire framework, including the floor and ceiling, black.

7243

As I said in a previous post, rather than getting a screen size which matched the projected image size, I decided to maximise screen real estate. I ordered a screen that would go from floor to ceiling and would wrap past the rear windows. My main reason for this was to act as a curtain to eliminate distractions behind the image (i.e. the studs). It also has the added benefit in that if future projectors enable a larger image, I already have the screen to be able to take advantage of that. Also, the screen material Carl uses comes in 9" widths, so I guessed the difference in cost between an 8ft screen and a 6ft screen would be minimal, as the cut off is scrap so I'd probably be paying for it anyway. That's just a hunch though.

Next comes fitting the screen support framework. I used 20mm black PVC conduit used for electrical wiring. Very cheap, strong and incredibly easy to work with. Rather than use matching PVC saddles that would normally be used with PVC conduit, I opted to go for the steel counterpart, for added strength...

7244

I fitted these along the top MDF only at approx 12" intervals. I used proprietary 90 degree angles at the corners...

7247

Then I hung the screen, using the bungees provided. I then pulled the screen taught at the bottom centre and left/right edges to determine the best distance to fix the bottom conduit saddles from the top ones. Once the bottom conduit was fitted, I attached the screen bungees and this is when you get the first proper glimpse of the finished screen unfolding.

Repeat the process for the left and right sides...

7245

I hope that all makes sense, but as usual, ask away if anything's unclear.

Sean

HondaCop
11-17-2012, 09:13 AM
Awesome quick guide, Sean! I like the conduits you used to secure the PVC to the studs/MDF. I will look for those today when I go to Lowes shopping for the materials. Thanks!

HondaCop
11-23-2012, 11:56 PM
Sean, I haven't been able to purchase the materials yet but I did order the screen from Carl's Place today! Joe is a terrific guy!

I placed an order for a screen 22.5' long and 6.5' tall (taking into account the border and grommets every 6" apart)...

I'm thinking of building the frame with PVC pipe and bending them using the hot sand/jig technique.

HondaCop
12-02-2012, 01:18 AM
Sean, got my screen a few days ago!!! It looks AWESOME but I still haven't put it up yet! hahaha

Let me get this straight. Since the screen is 22.5' x 6.5', do I need to make my PVC frame 23' x 7'?? In other words, add 3" on each side for the bungee cords to stretch?

Sean Nixon
12-02-2012, 07:05 AM
My screen (including the black border) is 78" tall (same as yours)! The framework between centres of the top and bottom conduits is 82". That's 4" more, 2" each side.

I didn't set out to make the frame that particular size, it's just how it worked out during construction. Here's how I did it...

Step 1 - Decide where you want the top of the screen to be and fix the top frame only. Don't forget to allow for the stretch (about 2-3"). Make the conduit longer than it needs to be at each end. It will be shortened later. Hang the screen from the top rail and position it so that it's a central as you can get, i.e. the left and right ends are equally positioned.

Step 2 - Insert a couple of bungees into adjacent holes on the bottom of the screen, near the centre point. Stretch the screen as much as you can and mark where the bungees come to. That will be where you need to fix the bottom frame. Measure the distance between that and the top rail. Mine is 82". I'm guessing yours will be similar. The taughtness of the screen is not critical, but you want to get it as tight as you comfortably can without putting too much stress on the fixing holes/framework. Fit the bottom frame, again, leaving the ends long, and attach the screen. It should be starting to look good now.

Step 3 - Now we need to sort the ends out. If you're lucky, you'll have a stud in just the right place to take the vertical framework. If not, you may need to add an extra stud at each end. You may think the ends are unimportant, as they are out of sight when in the cockpit, but you need to get the screen as taught as you can, as it affects the wrinkles in the centre. Pull an end, like you did to the bottom in step 2, and mark where the framework needs to be. Fit it, leaving slightly long top and bottom. Attach the screen. Repeat for the other side.

Step 4 - I used proprietary corners to finish my framework. Simply hold the corner piece up to the vertical and horizontal conduits, mark where they need to be cut, then cut and fit the 4 corners.

Step 5 - grab a cold one and admire your handy work!

There's nothing to stop you making the frame all in one go, but I'd strongly recommend building it in-situ as I've described. That way, you are sure the screen will be hung as best as you can get it.

Have fun Efrain. Don't forget the pics at the end, and be sure to shout if you need help, I'll be waiting!

Sean

HondaCop
12-03-2012, 08:46 PM
Awesome, Sean! I am almost done with the screen! Yesterday, I was able to put up the vertical studs and last week, I found a nice way to give 3/4" PVC pipe a curve! haha This way, the piping doesn't put too much strain on the studs when installing them, since they are already curved. In the next few days, I will put up the PVC pipes, hang the screen and finish off the framework as per your tips.

BTW, which side of the screen are you projecting on? The fabric or vinyl side?

Sean Nixon
12-04-2012, 02:43 AM
Excellent. I'm projecting onto the vinyl side.

spitfire9
12-04-2012, 08:36 PM
I was wondering,, how do you put a curve in those pvc pipes?

OmniAtlas
12-04-2012, 09:49 PM
Sean, I haven't been able to purchase the materials yet but I did order the screen from Carl's Place today! Joe is a terrific guy!

I placed an order for a screen 22.5' long and 6.5' tall (taking into account the border and grommets every 6" apart)...

I'm thinking of building the frame with PVC pipe and bending them using the hot sand/jig technique.


Hi Efrain, how much did your material end up costing?

HondaCop
12-04-2012, 10:25 PM
I was wondering,, how do you put a curve in those pvc pipes?

I basically did the following steps:

1. I used my back deck and drew an outline of my curve on the floor. The curved line I drew is about 12 feet long since my PVC pipes are 10 feet in length. The radius of the curve is 5.5 feet.

2. I then screwed a pair of screws, down the length of the line at about 12" intervals. The screws are about 1 inch apart from each other, where 1 screw is 1/2" on one side of the line and other screw is 1/2" on the opposite side. In other words, once the pipe lays between the screws, the pipe will rest on the curved line. This is my jig.

3. I heated up sand in the oven at 525 degrees F for 15 minutes.

4. Once heated, place an end cap on one end of the pipe and proceed to fill the pipe with the heated sand until it's completely filled with hot sand. Once filled, cap off that end as well. Be very careful and don't burn yourself!

5. By the time you are done capping both ends, you will notice the pipe is very warm to the touch and it will bend easily.

6. Go ahead and quickly place the pipe on the jig. The pipe should be resting between all the screws and it will take the shape of the curved line.

7. Let the pipe cool down for about 15-20 minutes. Once you notice the pipe is very cool to the touch, go ahead and remove it from the jig, remove the caps and empty out the sand.

Once emptied, the pipe will retain the curved shape! =) The benefit of this is that the pipe will not put too much pressure on your framework and stud because it's already bent into shape.



Hi Efrain, how much did your material end up costing?

I ended up paying $300 USD for a 22.5' x 6.5' screen with grommets every 6" and all the necessary bungee cords. Screen was neatly packaged and Joe from Carl's place is a class act. Very nice person to deal with. Highly recommend!

OmniAtlas
12-05-2012, 04:53 AM
Hi Efrain, that seems quite reasonable.

What projectors did you end up getting? Are you going with 2 or 3 projectors for 180+ viewing? 3 Might be out of the question for me because of costs -- I'm wondering if you can still get a good experience with 2x short-throw projectors.

It seems most of the builders on this board put the visuals last -- why is that? I place more emphasis on the visuals, and will probably buy the MIP after all that is in place.

HondaCop
12-05-2012, 05:10 AM
Hi Efrain, that seems quite reasonable.

What projectors did you end up getting? Are you going with 2 or 3 projectors for 180+ viewing? 3 Might be out of the question for me because of costs -- I'm wondering if you can still get a good experience with 2x short-throw projectors.

It seems most of the builders on this board put the visuals last -- why is that? I place more emphasis on the visuals, and will probably buy the MIP after all that is in place.

Omni,

I went with the BenQ MW814ST, which is a 1280x800 resolution PJ with a throw ratio of .49

I currently have just 1 projector but I will be buying 2 more in a month or so for a 3 projector setup. My screen is a 225 degree setup with a radius of 5.5 feet, which gives me a screen size of 22' x 6'. The image itself will be 52" in height and 22 feet wide.

This projector has no zoom so I must set it up with a throw distance of 4'-3".

Actually, now that I am almost done with the visuals, I am heavily thinking of switching my build into a Cessna 172 instead of a B737. I want to really fly and enjoy the scenery instead of flying an airliner up in the Flight Levels and most of the time on AP.

OmniAtlas
12-05-2012, 09:39 AM
Any specific reason you went with the benq (besides the throw ratio)?

I am looking for the best bank for the buck projectors out there.

HondaCop
12-05-2012, 09:47 AM
Any specific reason you went with the benq (besides the throw ratio)?

I am looking for the best bank for the buck projectors out there.

Yup, several reasons:

1. Very short throw ratio (perfect for flight simulator applications)
2. 2500 lumens (lots of brightness)
3. 1280x800 native resolution (decent resolution)
4. DLP (outstanding sharpness and black levels)
5. Can be found for $800 on Amazon (not too bad of a price)
6. Lamp life of 6000 hours on ECO mode! (huge bonus!)

OmniAtlas
12-06-2012, 06:06 AM
Hey Honda, thanks -- I'm just wondering if it would be better to go with 2x 1080p projectors; I know there are not that many affordable 1080p short-throws in the market now, but maybe later on?

It is essential to have a short-throw projector because you do not want any shadow casts from your cockpit am I correct?

The other thing is -- what projection/blending software will you be using?

Immersive Display Lite 2 seems like the most affordable option right now, but there is some extreme blurring, especially when you enable the blending/curving.

HondaCop
12-09-2012, 02:58 AM
Hey Honda, thanks -- I'm just wondering if it would be better to go with 2x 1080p projectors; I know there are not that many affordable 1080p short-throws in the market now, but maybe later on?

It is essential to have a short-throw projector because you do not want any shadow casts from your cockpit am I correct?

The other thing is -- what projection/blending software will you be using?

Immersive Display Lite 2 seems like the most affordable option right now, but there is some extreme blurring, especially when you enable the blending/curving.

You could probably get away with 2 projectors but I doubt you will be able to get a 225 degree display with just 2 displays. That would be pushing it but I could be wrong.

Yes, you need short throw so you can avoid shadows being displayed and unless you have a full size hangar where you will be building your home cockpit, space will be at a premium.

I am trialing Immersive Display Pro right now and I'm starting to get the hang of it. Is blurring an issue with JUST this software or is something inherent with others as well? I do get some blurring but I thought it was just the nature of the beast, since we are basically shifting/bending around the image.

Nick1150
04-15-2013, 05:12 AM
Very interesting thread Sean!!!

Thanks for the info.

Take a look at this Flex-C Trac: How to shape and secure - load bearing - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydjazF7cwmc&feature=player_embedded) Could be an easy solution to fit any kind of screen...