Steering tiller

[Philb737]

Hi fellow simmers,
I'm having a great difficulty trying to assign a tiller (10K pot) to FSUIPC. I'm using Phidgets 8/8/8 card and Alan's great FS2Phidgets software:D. In FS2Phidgets software I can calibrate and assign the same (10K pot) to an FS variable like (Rudder control), but when I go to FSUIPC software to assign an axis to the same pot, FSUIPC dose not recognizes the axis at all! I have noticed that non of my phidgets analog inputs are recognized by FSUIPC. What am I missing here?
Thank you,
Phil
Window XP PRO SP3
FSX, SP1 Acecclaration
FSUIPC 4.152
FS2Phidgets 4.3.7

[autocadplease]

Don't you have to use the rescan button to assign an axis in FSUIPC if an axis is not set up in FS? Move the axis to confirm in fact it is the correct one (axis values will increase/decrease as you move the axis/pot).

Check this out http://fsuipc.simflight.com/beta/CH_Controls_with_FSUIPC.pdf

[Philb737]

My problem is that FSUIPC dose not recognize the 8/8/8 Phidget board as a joystick, therefore, the movement of any analog inputs are not registered and not recognized in FSUIPC software.:(

[ian@737ng.co.uk]

hi phil......
the Steering Tilller is an 'internal' FSUIPC refinement which Pete included with the program. i believe that FSUIPC will only see your axis if it is input via the windows joystick routines which is reading joystick axes only.
so, my best guess is that FSUIPC is not seeing your axis because it is being delivered by another method (the 8/8/8 board )
i had a similar issue when trying to deliver axes thru the CPFlight MCPEX1 board. so threw in the towel and put all axes onto BU0836X boards which i can assign and calibrate in FSUIPC.
or maybe you can sweet talk Alan into writing something similar into FS2Phidgets.
good luck anyway.... regards ... ian

[Philb737]

Hi Ian,
Thank you for the info, I was hoping that I don't have to go that route, but if all fails I have no choice to change my setup and use another joystick board. Can I use a 10K pot with BU0836X board?
Cheers
Phil

[ian@737ng.co.uk]

hi phil,
absolutely no problem with 10k pots. i have a mixture of 10k and 100k pots and as long as you calibrate the axes in the windows control panel before going into FSUIPC, i never get an issue. cracking piece of kit and as well as your axes, it will allow you 32 more inputs for switches, pushbuttons and encoders which again you can assign (or record macro's for) in FSUIPC.
good luck captain ... ian

[Philb737]

Thank you Ian! I will definitely keep that option open.;)

[CocnutAir]

Phil,

I think you mean that Windows does not see Phidgets as a joystick.
Mainly, because it is not a joystick.
FSUIPC talks to the Windows Joystick component .
Joystick vendors write drivers to interface their hardware with joystick component of Windows.

FS2Phidget can send any analog value to any FSUIPC offset.
Whether it will do anything useful depends on the offset.
Offset you mention is really two offsets that do two different things.

It appears from a brief glance that one offset is the value for a the control.
The other offset is the type of control.
I am not familiar with that offset.

You could try:
- assigning the analog Phidget to the Value portion of the offset.
- Assign a switch to the other portion - the switch would send appropriate value when switch is on (or off, for that matter).

Two offsets -> Two functions -> Two devices

Regards,
Alan

[Westozy]

Hi Phil,

I got around this glitch mechanically by having the Tiller & Rudder pot combined. The drive from my pedals rotates the pot shaft and the Tiller rotates the pot housing - too easy!!!
http://www.mycockpit.org/photopost/data/560/Aerosim_tiller.JPG
http://www.mycockpit.org/photopost/data/560/Concentric_drive_pot.JPG
http://www.mycockpit.org/photopost/data/560/Tiller_connected.JPG

Another method to consider!!!
Regards, Gwyn

[Philb737]

Thank you Alan and Gwyn,
Alan, I will try what you suggested and post my findings! Gwyn, how dose the rudder paddles rotates the pot shaft? The tiller to pot shaft is very clear, I see a second pulley and a cable going down to the rudder mechanism, how is the second pulley attached to the rudder mechanism? Is there a third pulley on a crank?:roll:
Best regards,
Phil

[Peter Dowson]

Hi Phil,

I just posted this in your thread on my Forum, but i'll repeat it here in case you aren't looking there at present:



I will get back to you soon as I have an answer for you.
I was investigating the solution I suggested that I might be able to implement when I stumbled across something already implemented in the current versions of both FSUIPC3 and FSUIPC4. This was a sepcial facility to allow my PFC and GA28R drivers to send axes direct to FSUIPC's calibration facilities. Being of, as I thought then, limited usefulness it was not documented in the FSUIPC SDK, but only in the PFC driver document. Here are the details:

Application program axis handling

When using FSUIPC version 3.30 or later, application programs or modules can access the raw PFC axis values at offsets 3BA8 onwards. One 16-bit word is allowed for each (although currently all PFC axes have a maximum range of 0 to 127, this may change in future). The axes are:
3BA8 0 Aileron
3BAA 1 Elevator
3BAC 2 Rudder
3BAE 3 Quadrant axis 5
3BB0 4 Quadrant axis 3
3BB2 5 Quadrant axis 1
3BB4 6 Left toe brake
3BB6 7 Quadrant axis 6
3BB8 8 Quadrant axis 4
3BBA 9 Quadrant axis 2
3BBC 10 Right toe brake
3BBE 11 Elevator trim
3BC0 12 Aileron trim
3BC2 13 Rudder trim
3BC4 14 Steering tiller
3BC6 15 not used
There are control flags (to disconnect these axes) at offset 3BC8. Each bit, 2^0 to 2^15 can be set to disconnect the equivalent numbered axis above. The cowl flap axes are not part of this facility.

So ... please try this: get your Phidgets software to send the Rudder value to 3BAC, and the Tiller value to 3BC4. Best to do both this way for better chance that the automatic switchover takes place based on airspeed and so on.

Let me know how you get on, please. If this is useful I might add the details to the regular offsets list.

Regards

Pete

[Philb737]

Thank you Pete!!!:p I will try your suggestion and post my findings as soon as I'm back home.
Cheers
Phil

[Westozy]

Thank you Alan and Gwyn,
Alan, I will try what you suggested and post my findings! Gwyn, how dose the rudder paddles rotates the pot shaft? The tiller to pot shaft is very clear, I see a second pulley and a cable going down to the rudder mechanism, how is the second pulley attached to the rudder mechanism? Is there a third pulley on a crank?:roll:
Best regards,
Phil

Hi Phil,

My rudder pedals slide in tracks and on the front of the left pedal there is a piece of trace wire attached. It goes under a guide pulley and up to the pulley on the pot, it's wrapped around a couple of times and then a fine spring keeps tension on the tail end. This little spring doesn't affect the rudder self centering. The result is true linear action on the pot and it works well. Wire trace drives on pot pulleys is common in some instrument enclosures that I work with - chart recorders etc. The "F.O." can still steer on the ground with pedals which is handy.

Gwyn

[Philb737]

Very clever Gwyn!!!
Thank you again.:D
Phil

[CocnutAir]

You Aussies are such crafty buggers.

[farrokh747]

HI Peter -

My set up: FS9/Winxp
FSUIPC: 3.90
Phidgets 8/8/8 card for tiller and rudder with FS2P control
Project Magenta

I've assigned the tiller and rudder in FS2Phidgets as follows:
Rudder: 3BAC, Size 2, Range Of values (the default display in FS2P Variable Editor is -16383 > +16383)
Tiller: 3BC4, Size 2, Range Of Values ( ditto ditto )

With the above, I'm not getting any deflection in the FS rudder, using the tiller @<60kts, and using the rudder at >60kts or any speeds - I'm not sure if I've set up FS2P correctly, esp the Offset size and type -

The options in the FS2P variable editor are:
OFFSET
SIZE
FS VARIABLE RANGE (RAW FS VALUE, RANGE OF VALUES, DIGITAL, PART OF BITMAP,ETC)

Of course, with this, both axis's are not assignable/controlable vis the FSUIPC menu -

Has anyone got the switchover going using Phidgets? For the moment, I've gone back to "steering" with the rudder using Rudder Control - 0BBA

cheers,

Farrokh

[Peter Dowson]

With the above, I'm not getting any deflection in the FS rudder, using the tiller @<60kts, and using the rudder at >60kts or any speeds

The list of offsets I mentioned are only conventionally assigned to those functions. Have you gone into FSUIPC Axis Assignments and actually assigned those to the functions of tiller and rudder? Since you are using a full range of -16k to +16k you'll need to select "RAW" mode too I think -- as I said earlier, they are normally handling a range 0-127 only, which is multiplied up to get -16k to +16k. That would make your values overflow the 16-bits.

After assigning correctly you have to calibrate both axes in the Joystick Calibration tab.


Of course, with this, both axis's are not assignable/controlable vis the FSUIPC menu
Er, pardon? Can you explain please?

Regards

Pete

[farrokh747]

So ... please try this: get your Phidgets software to send the Rudder value to 3BAC, and the Tiller value to 3BC4. Best to do both this way for better chance that the automatic switchover takes place based on airspeed and so on.

Pete

HI Peter = thanks for the reply -

From your earlier reply, I understood (or mis!) that I could also use the tiller/rudder switchover function using Phidgets - as you know, any input to FS vis Phidgets will not show up in the FSUIPC panel. Earlier, to get this working in my sim, I had assigned the tiller and rudder via FSUIPC using Leo Bodnar's board (which acts as a "joystick", hence can be caliberated in FSUIPC) - the rest of my fight controls are input via phidgets

I was attempting to get the tiller/rudder switchover going using phidgets, after reading the above -

I tried to assign Ofsets 3BAC and 3BC4 to the rudder and tiller resp. using the FS2P variable editor, but got no values changing in FS -


I've used the switchover with the tiller and rudder via FSUIPC and it works fine - I was hoping to get all my flight controls under one roof as it were

I hope this makes sense..

FS2P had a divider/multiplier function as well, I'll play with that and see if anything happens -

cheers!


fc

[Peter Dowson]

From your earlier reply, I understood (or mis!) that I could also use the tiller/rudder switchover function using Phidgets

If Phidgets can write values to offsets, yes, you can, as I said.


- as you know, any input to FS vis Phidgets will not show up in the FSUIPC panel.Sorry, I don't know anything about Phidgets.


Earlier, to get this working in my sim, I had assigned the tiller and rudder via FSUIPC using Leo Bodnar's board (which acts as a "joystick", hence can be caliberated in FSUIPC) - the rest of my fight controls are input via phidgetsOkay ... but I'm not sure how that's relevant at present?


I tried to assign Ofsets 3BAC and 3BC4 to the rudder and tiller resp. using the FS2P variable editor, but got no values changing in FS - But did you (a) assign them in FSUIPC, in RAW mode, and (b) calibrate them in FSUIPc. If you didn't do both then you cannot expect to see anything happen in FS. It does work -- I use the offsets in three separate programs now, both for FSX and FS9. Values written to those offsets are seen as axes on joysticks 16-19 in FSUIPC's Axes tab.

I did ask you to check this -- please do re-read my last message, which you seem to have rather skipped over.

Regards

Pete

[farrokh747]

Hi -

As i mentioned in my last reply, Ive been able to get the tiller/rudder switchover working using the FSUIPC controls. I've assigned and calibrated the 2 axis's and seen the authority transfer to the rudder as I reach 60kts. So no problem there - as long as I use a usb/joystick controller (Leo Bodnar's for eg) for these two inputs.

Windows does not see Phidgets as a joystick, and hence any controls connected to phidgets card will not show up in the FSUIPC calib/assignment windows. (there's the pity) - You can only calib and control Phidgets inputs using FS2P (or if you write your own interface!) - so far, I have not been able to use the 60kts transfer function if i use phidgets to connect my rudder and tiller - I have to stay with just the rudder.

In a nutshell, I'm trying to see if I can use the two offsets in Phidgets to get the switchover. As said, no problem with this using joystick/FSUIPC -

Phidgets has a powerful variable editor, and I'll see if I can get this going - and report any success

cheers and thanks!

Farrokh.

[Peter Dowson]

As i mentioned in my last reply, Ive been able to get the tiller/rudder switchover working using the FSUIPC controls. I've assigned and calibrated the 2 axis's and seen the authority transfer to the rudder as I reach 60kts. So no problem there - as long as I use a usb/joystick controller (Leo Bodnar's for eg) for these two inputs.

I understand that. I don't understand why you keep repeating yourself.


In a nutshell, I'm trying to see if I can use the two offsets in Phidgets to get the switchover.And I understand that too, and as I said, you CAN. I simply don't understand why you continue to completely ignore what I'm saying. I won't say it all again!!!

:-(


Phidgets has a powerful variable editor, and I'll see if I can get this going - and report any successWhat on Earth are you wanting to edit? You already said you were sending values to the offsets. Now just go and assign them and calibrate them!!!!!

:-( :-(

Pete

[farrokh747]

Hi Pete = Success! - I had got the Phidgets assignments wrong - now they show in the FSUIPC menu, checked "raw", calib'd them and working great, - a good day

Please pardon my stupidity - ! and thanks for pointing me in the right direction - These offsets open up a lot of possibilities! Once could use the "slope" function in fsuipc for instance even when connected to phidgets -

thanks again!


FC

[Peter Dowson]

Hi Pete = Success! - I had got the Phidgets assignments wrong - now they show in the FSUIPC menu, checked "raw", calib'd them and working great, - a good day

Good ... well done!

Pete