Project Magenta: An Open Letter to the Sim Community

[mattford1]

Hi Guys-

I'm sure all of you were as shocked as I was to hear Microsoft closed ACES studios and shut the doors (at least for the foreseeable future) on the Microsoft Flight Simulator franchise. According to a blog from Phil Taylor, FSX's programming lead, everyone was given pink slips yesterday, their computer access revoked and given 24 hours to pack up, with the exception of 6 tech support people to close out the ESP platform, the commercial version of FSX. The remaining 6 will only be around for 6 months to close out the current contracts and archive the FSX code.

Luckily for us FSX was a pretty good product. As a member of the beta team for FSX, I was certainly proud of the sim. Sure it has its share of minor bugs, but overall it was a very stable release, but those of us that are cockpit builders should be asking ourselves "what's next". Most of us, especially in the commercial flight deck arena use Project Magenta with a recent version of Microsoft Flight Simulator. My Boeing 737-700 simulator (www.737sim.com) uses FSX and Project Magenta. I've often thought of changing over to X-Plane but what has kept me with the FS product is Project Magenta.

Currently Project Magenta only supports MSFS via the FSUIPC interface. With X-Plane being the only simulator being developed out there we need to encourage Enrico Schiratti to support X-Plane and I believe this will only happen with your help.

There is a perception out there that Project Magenta and X-Plane cannot be compatible because X-Plane changes its data structure from release to release. This is simply not true. A plugin was developed by Ben Supnik that is very similar to Pete's FSUIPC. This eliminates all together the data issue much as the same way Pete keeps the 3rd party apps running even though things change from release to release of MSFS.

Austin Meyer, the developer of X-Plane is a friend of mine, and I can tell you he has for a long time been interested in having Project Magenta work with X-Plane. I would encourage all of you to email Enrico at support@projectmagenta.com, and ask that he support X-Plane. The reality is that even if Microsoft decides to resurrect FS, a new release would be a minimum of 5 years off. X-Plane is the only simulator that is going to be in development for the foreseeable future. I feel the only way Enrico will change his mind about X-Plane is to hear from his customers. Please join me in this effort!

Regards
Matt Ford
www.737sim.com

[Jackpilot]

Matt
With all due respect for the wonderful work you did for the community..
Sorry to desagree...

FS9 and FSX + PM allowed us to build our sims and everyone did contribute to improve over the MSFS base.
As far as I know Microsoft does not ask us to send back our copies.
MSFS 9orX are NOT DEAD.
Todays computers still run FS3 , tomorrow's computer will run FS9 and FSX for years.
The pressure imposed by MS to reinvent ourselves every few years is gone...GOOD.

I DO NOT WANT TO HAVE TO SWITCH TO XPLANE AND START EVERYTHING ALL OVER AGAIN.

We have a wonderful platform with MSMF. We have talented people who work hard to improve it and most innovations CAME FROM THEM and NOT from Microsoft.
P.Dawson and Project Magenta are among those.

ON THE OPPOSITE I would urge Pete, Enrico and the other developpers to continue to put all their efforts to support FS9 and FSX and allow us to enjoy their products.


JACK

[mattford1]

Jack-

Hi there. I don't disagree with you, I hope Enrico and Pete continue to support the FS products. I dont' see any reason why they can't and know tons of folks who still use FS9.

In 6 months all support will cease from Microsoft, so my hope is that Enrico will support the only flight sim left. At least then we would have another option.

Cheers,
Matt

[AndyT]

Actually, I see this as an answer to the problems FS has been having with trying to remain backward compatible for so long on an old code base.

This will give FSX an extended life span which is a good thing. People complained about FS9 life span being too short. This will handle those objections.
Until every house on the planet is modeled and ready to load, there will always be more projects for the developers to work on. Think about how long that will take. And how long to get all our favorite planes re-modeled under FSX? Think about the hardware in 5 years. Try and look at the good side and toss the negative ideas out the window because they only slow you down.

A new team coming in will bring new ideas and a fresh approach to the problems FS has had. Multi-core will be a given by then. 64 bit apps will likely be common as well.

I see lots of people wailing that this is a horrible thing to have happened. I can see only good coming from it with the single exception of people losing their jobs.

If X-Plane becomes more popular then great, but I'm not holding my breath for it to replace MSFS.

[dnoize]

I've been flying an x-plane based heli sim 2 days ago.....and i was VERY impressed !!

I have used x-plane in the past, but never changed platforms. But after seeing the latest release in this sim i am very tempted.

The stock x-plane version had SOOOOOO many possibilities not seen in microsoft products.

sure...scenery in fsx is much better....but a. i dont care about ground scenery at fl 350, i dont care about buildings in amsterdam when i land at schiphol and b. add on developers might look more at x-plane now.

When it comes to characteristics and features in x-plane i was very surprised. FSX has birds.....but x-plane has BIRDSTRIKES as a failures....i dont care for birds as eyecandy, but they are great if they are functional as a failure.

The interface for controlling all kinds of parameters like failures is great. I have seen posibilities i have never seen in other instructor station software.

Also setting up the software for multi screen operations was very easy, much better than in any MS product. it worked perfectly together with the SOL7 software.

i will order my copy and i will certainly investigate the use in my sim.

btw: there are NO FAA approved FS based sims, there are SEVERAL FAA approved x-plane based sims. Alsim uses x-plane for some of their FAA approoved trainers.

Does this mean i will abandon FS9 and FSX ? no, I love both....but i will certainly not turn my back to x-plane


Stef

[737NUT]

I too have been flying X-Plane 9 lately. I have a pretty realistic 737 i downloaded and like it quite abit. Its nice having no stutters and and seeing the taxi way lights and realistic runway lights when i come in to land at an airport. 3rd party software is getting better with x-plane so i think i might make the permanent switch! I have been flying MSFS since the first release! I think X-Plane deserves a serious look!

[oal331]

I agree 100% with Stef.

For me, still flying with Fs9, the Microsoft's recent news are bad for the people lost their jobs, but not bad for our hobby (for the next 5-7 years).

Freezing the Fs project, i can remain for the next 2 years with my FS9, having there all the sceneries i want and running perfect with my PC. The weather is very realist and smooth.

FSX is not for today. It demands high end CPUs and VGAs and many add-ons are missing or having problems, giving at the end low fps. After 2 years, it will be very nice to upgrade to FSX with the PCs of 2011 ;)

X-Plane for me, must be another solution, another option. Yes i would like PM to support X-Plane and use it in our cockpits.
Another approach will be to have a program like X-Fsuipc, which will be the tranlator between PM and X-Plane, translating the PM offsets to X-Plane's commands and readings.

regards

Eddie

[oal331]

It's not a good idea to use Enrico's email with everyone's opinion and personal story.


So i made an open poll in the same Forum.
You can vote there !!!


I'm sure, Enrico will be aware of the results of this poll and maybe will help him to make a decision for the feature of PM

Best regards

[Michael Carter]

It is very unfortunate that those in that group lost their livelyhood. I've been in that boat before and it's stressful situation for the entire family.

However, MS closing the studio has no effect either now or down the road for my sim. It's irrelavent. I'm sure the same situation applies to many builders.

I'm running FS9 and will continue to do so for at least the next three years, probably five.

[dnoize]

Another approach will be to have a program like X-Fsuipc, which will be the tranlator between PM and X-Plane, translating the PM offsets to X-Plane's commands and readings.



Now there's a thought. I dont have a clue if this is possible, but it would be a great solution if it is. A plug in, that can translate x-plane variables to FSUIPC variables.

This would eliminate the need of new glass cockpit software, so we dont have to fork out thousands of dollars again.

Once again, i dont have a clue if this is possible, Maybe Pete Dowson and/or Austin Meyer can tell us more about the possibilities for this.



Stef



.

[oal331]

I made a post about this option, in Peter's forum. (http://forums.simflight.com/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=74719)

We can expect for Peter's opinion, if a X-Fsuipc could be possible.


Regards

[ak49er]

I have a customer who wants his CPT to be Certifiable in the Future, and we have been holding out on PMRJ, Instructor station, PM Systems, CDU until I investigated X Plane more. Our perfect solution would be X-Plane, and PM working together. Please.

[Trevor Hale]

Now there's a thought. I dont have a clue if this is possible, but it would be a great solution if it is. A plug in, that can translate x-plane variables to FSUIPC variables.

This would eliminate the need of new glass cockpit software, so we dont have to fork out thousands of dollars again.

Once again, i dont have a clue if this is possible, Maybe Pete Dowson and/or Austin Meyer can tell us more about the possibilities for this.

I agree.. Now this would be a wonderful solution. If possible.. who knows, except for Peter Dowson. Perhaps he could respond and let us know..

Trev

[Peter Dowson]

I agree.. Now this would be a wonderful solution. If possible.. who knows, except for Peter Dowson. Perhaps he could respond and let us know..

See Eddie's post a few messages back. He even provided a link.

Pete

[Trevor Hale]

I see now, Thanks Pete.

Hopefully this isn't the end... Not many programmers out there are as talented as you are Pete.. Just the way the world goes I guess.

Cheers for all your efforts through the years, as this will surely be the end for a lot of people.

Best regards,

Trev

[super80]

There is a perception out there that Project Magenta and X-Plane cannot be compatible because X-Plane changes its data structure from release to release. This is simply not true. A plugin was developed by Ben Supnik that is very similar to Pete's FSUIPC. This eliminates all together the data issue much as the same way Pete keeps the 3rd party apps running even though things change from release to release of MSFS.
www.737sim.com

I have read many times that Enrico tried to make PM compatible with x-plane some years back, but due to Austin's constant revamping of the data structure it proved too much work to keep up with the changes. Now Matt is saying this is not true. Not trying to start a flame war here but it would be nice to have the powers that be, namely Austin and Enrico, clarify this so we can better understand what the real development challenges are. I for one would love to see x-plane and PM work together, I wouldn't even mind paying for an update/utility/plugin as long as it was a reasonable price point, such as that of FSUIPC..

My two cents

[BlackWidow]

LOL I have owned PM for a few years now and it is still unfinished and now there is a want/need for PM to work with X-Plane. I would like this too BUT i would rather have a completed version of PMRJ and GAGC. I know there are alot of PM users out there but how about also asking Ellie Systems to make there software compatible with X-Plane. I would have switched over to X-Plane if it not for the fact i spent too much money on PM software that is only compatible with FS.

This is my personal opinon i am not bashing PM just makeing my point. Please dont start bashing PM because of MY OPINON, thanks.

[Trevor Hale]

Matt,

Would it not be possible to have Austin just allow the FSUIPC Module to be recognized and used in X-Plane. Then it could talk to it as it were an add-on of it's own. Instead of having each software developer change their software, wouldn't it be better to just change one. "change the cart so all horses can pull it?"

Then many other softwares could work that use the existing FSUIPC interface?

Just a thought, I am not a programmer so really, I am talking out my butt I guess.

Trev

[super80]

I assume it would involve finding an equivalent fsuipc offset for each x-plane offset

[dnoize]

What i am worried about is if, and how much lag that translation would give.

Apearently someone made something like this allready for x-plane 7. Does anyone know who that is ? Maybe thats the guy we should contact.

BTW i found some really amazing photorealistic scenery and there are also utils to convert fs9 and fsx scenery to x-plane9. so eyecandy is not the problem.

Stef.

[Trevor Hale]

I would be happy to ditch MSFS for something like that.. especially if the lag issue could be sorted out.

Trev

[fweinrebe]

I found this link on the X-Plane website:

The final level of customization for X-Plane is PLUGINS. This is actually a software kit that lets you read and write any variable in the entire simulator. Learn about it here: http://www.xsquawkbox.net/xpsdk/.

Now if someone can write a program that emulates FSPUIC, the problem should be solved. That way PM thinks it is talking to MSFS via FSPUIC. No changes needed in PM. For each new X-Plane version, you need a new Emulator version. Isn't that what Pete did anyway with each MSFS release.

[oal331]

Hi everyone,

sorry, no good news for the moment :(

After Peter's negative answer, (i respect his decision), also Austin Meyer for his reasons gave me a negative answer in private email.

Here is his reply:

"yes. a good idea!
but i cannot do it
too busy with other things!"

I was believing that X-Plane could catch the opportunity and make a big step ahead, to approach more people.

So, we have to wait, until another programmer or team will find the idea interesting and make a connector between Fsuipc and X-Plane.

If i'm not wrong, my proposal, was in the same concept, with Niko Kaan's intermediate software to connect Level-D 767 with Opencockpit's systems and Fsuipc's offsets, right ?

regards

[Trevor Hale]

Eddie.. Fortunately our software continues to work even though Microsoft has closed it's doors. we have lots of time for Developers to jump on the band wagon. Nothing has to be decided today or even this month. What will be nice to see is if the trend will shift to X-Plane.. so goes the owl. Everyone will follow suit, and you will see things come out of the woodwork. The issue is (STANDARDIZATION) Unofficially FSUIPC became the Standard comms protocol for MSFS.

Hopefully there will be the same when it comes to X-Plane.

Remember the HDDVD and Blueray saga.. someone always needs to win. and when they all get that sorted out. things will progress.

Keep smiling chaps.. somehow someone will rescue this hobby. We just need our Superman to arrive..


Best regards,

Trev

[BlackWidow]

dnoize

Just out of curiosity have you seen any screen shots or do you have any screenshots of the converted scenery. I would really like to see what the converted scenery looks like.

[oal331]

dnoize

Just out of curiosity have you seen any screen shots or do you have any screenshots of the converted scenery. I would really like to see what the converted scenery looks like.

I have seen some converted Fs9 sceneries, i think they was the same, but as i don't have X-Plane yet, i'm not 100% sure about it. I didn't test them or see them in detail.
I can ask a friend use this convertion tool and when having fresh news, i will post a reply here.

Good day !!

[Thomas Richter]

Hi

A very nice discussion, but about what?

It "seems" there will no new FS in the future from Microsoft. And they killed all their developers and not just fired them??

But the new FS has never be anounced for near future, it has ever been a wish to have in late of 2009 or early 2010 from cutomers! And it couldn't have been ever before end of 2010 for a release, that has been clear also.

Like Trev wrote before it is not from Microsofts side forbidden to use the current FS anymore! Or I have mistaken here and MS will recall all over the world any licences for FS use?
If not, FSX is out for 2 years now and the most of the Simmers they use MS-FS are using the FS9 (FS2004) what has been released in July 2003. So some users work with this FS version nearly 6 years and are happy (like me)!

And any users with FSx Pete did so may things to correct missing things or problems with his FSUIPC4 that has not been solved by MS and will never be solved by MS (clear statement by MS that there will no developement with FSX after SP-2, you remember?) are more or less happy with what they have!
Most Addons are for FS2004 and also for FSX (just check it) but not vice versa.

When a FS version should have a lifetime of 4 years what are you talking about, 2 years are gone.

Before you kick FS now down to bullshit you should may be first try Demo's of other Sims!
This bullshit you have lived with is not bad, really!! Neither FSX nor FS9 (in any case).

And don't think what Pete has done with/in FSUIPC3/4 over all the years is just a finger snap someone can do for X-Plane now.

Just let it be what it is and the time will bring what is needed, like ever.

And remember the first line above:
It "seems" there will no new FS in the future from Microsoft. And they killed all their developers and not just fired them??
What are they doing in the future, just eat and drink?? Or ??

[dnoize]

Hi

A very nice discussion, but about what?

It "seems" there will no new FS in the future from Microsoft. And they killed all their developers and not just fired them??

i hope they didnt kill them ;-)
But its all the same. Maybe no new releases for the near future, but you keep all programmers together...now i think knowledge dissapears.
MS didnt want to sell the intelectual property to the ACES developers. Personally i think they will pick up the franchinse...somewhere in 2012/2014. Till then FSX is more than sufficient !
I Am still using FS9 and have no plans yet to migrate to FSX, so in that manner no harm is done.

However, if they pick up the franchise, lets say 4 years from now, alot of valuable information will be gone. All present programmers will have other jobs, and many of those wont think easily of going back to MS.

I would have liked to see FS evolve. We all loved the transition from one to another version, we have seen fs grow. We all were stunned by the eyecandy in FSX. I personaly would have liked the evolution to go on. More realism, better sceneries (although eye candy is not that important)......

So we ARE discussing something...the evolution of FS, sure we are all happy now...but will we be in 2015 ? Come on...none of us still flies wireframes.

For the next few years im still happy with FS9, when my computers can run FSX smoothly with 50+ frames and WITHOUT stutters, i will be happy some more years with FSX


Like Trev wrote before it is not from Microsofts side forbidden to use the current FS anymore! Or I have mistaken here and MS will recall all over the world any licences for FS use?
If not, FSX is out for 2 years now and the most of the Simmers they use MS-FS are using the FS9 (FS2004) what has been released in July 2003. So some users work with this FS version nearly 6 years and are happy (like me)!


totally agree



Before you kick FS now down to bullshit you should may be first try Demo's of other Sims!
This bullshit you have lived with is not bad, really!! Neither FSX nor FS9 (in any case).
And don't think what Pete has done with/in FSUIPC3/4 over all the years is just a finger snap someone can do for X-Plane now.




I for one havent kicked fs down. I dont think most others in here feel the same. Otherwise we wouldnt be in this hobby.

But for me personally i got enthousiastic after flying a x-plane based Alsim trainer in last year and a x-plane based helicopter trainer a couple of weeks ago.

I have seen many features and characteristics i would love in my sim. I was interested in the possibilities for a glass cockpit in my sim BEFORE MS announced all this.


And remember the first line above:
It "seems" there will no new FS in the future from Microsoft. And they killed all their developers and not just fired them??
What are they doing in the future, just eat and drink?? Or ??

As i said above....personally i think they will pick up the franchise in the future. Probably build up from the ground. I hope they will not continue with the current code so that in 10 years from now will still depend on patchwork from the 90's (see the xp/vista/etc)

just my 20 cents :-)

[dnoize]

dnoize

Just out of curiosity have you seen any screen shots or do you have any screenshots of the converted scenery. I would really like to see what the converted scenery looks like.

I havent tried it myself yet. My x-plane 9 is on the way here.

i just pointed out the possibility. google for fsx2xplane.

I, personally am not that much interested in the eye candy...its great if its there..but not essential.
I am interested in x-plane for its technical possibilities (failures, options for multi-screen)

From what i understand its not klick and play and results vary from very good to 'a lot of tweaking needed'

Stef

[fweinrebe]

And don't think what Pete has done with/in FSUIPC3/4 over all the years is just a finger snap someone can do for X-Plane now.

Just let it be what it is and the time will bring what is needed, like ever.



Very true. It will be very hard to achieve.

What his thread has achieved (at least for me), was to spark a little curiosity about X-Plane and a little what-if. I now believe that it should not be PM or any other vendor that should try and fit in with X-Plane or Product X or Y, but someone, Superman as Trevor mentioned, to come up with a descent interface like FSPUIC that works with existing FSPUIC interfaced products.

Let's call it FSPUIC-compatible interfaces. So on the one end you have a Flight Sim program and on the other end you have the same offsets as you have in FSPUIC. For this to work the FSPUIC offsets will have to become a Protocol or an Industry Standard.

I ordered X-Plane today because I am curios about it and how it compares to MSFS. I want to make up my own mind if it is better than MSFS. :)

[Jackpilot]

It is really amazing to see how the human mind works!!!!
......Why keep it simple when you can have it complicated!!!

...(I tend to do that too)

Sipping my morning coffee and basically enjoying the present.
Jack

[BlackWidow]

I totaly agree that eye candy is not everything. One thing that I do like aobut FSX over X-plane is that the town I live in... Tehachapi .... in FSX the road and mountains are all where they should be the look of the ground is very close to what i really see when im up in the sky in my friends 152. In X-plane it looks like a tropical rain forrest and the mountains and roads are not even close to what it looks like. No i dont need all the eye candy but i would like X-plane to be more realistic in its geography (spelling) then it is in its current state.

[fweinrebe]

The problem in FSX is that my hometown Windhoek looks like a desert and lots of sand, where in real life there are trees and grass. The FS2004 default scenery was much better. Wonder what X-plane will be like?

But then again Namibia isn't high on the priority of scenery. Although it is a very beautiful country from the ground and air, MSFS scenery leaves a lot for the imagination.

[mattford1]

From Avsim:

The Facts Emerge - The future of MS Flight Simulation

Posted: Sunday, February 8, 2009 - 20:01
There has been a lot of speculation, rumor and simple guesses as to what Microsoft is going to do with the Flight Simulator “enterprise”. Through a number of sources, some of whom are former ACES members, we have been able to get to the bottom of where our hobby is heading, at least as far as Microsoft is concerned. Our sources will remain anonymous, for obvious reasons. Here are the hard, cold, and very disappointing facts:

FACT: Microsoft Flight Simulator for the PC is dead. There are no plans to continue the FS series in a form that we would recognize. The wholesale dispatch of the ACES team speaks volumes to this.

FACT: ESP is dead. Boeing, Raytheon and presumably Northrop Grumman (ESP’s first adopters) received notification that the ESP franchise is done and that, in effect, they are on their own. We have seen some discussion putting hope in the emergence of ESP as the next "engine" for flight simulator. That is not going to happen.

FACT: Some developers in our hobby approached Microsoft to purchase the MSFX code. Microsoft rebuffed that offer in total. We presume that this is because having the FSX code out there would “diffuse” their future intent and model for a flight simulator “replacement”.

What is Microsoft’s future intent as regards flight simulation? Simple really… Create a flight simulation system for Windows Live, and sell applications for it much like Apple does for their IPhone / Ipod family. Third party developers will have to submit their applications, as do Apple developers, for approval by MS and they in turn would earn a percentage from the sales of those applications. Vendors that we have talked to are extremely upset about this. It also brings back memories of the infamous Papa Tango attempts to hijack freeware.

Imagine for a moment a “live” simulator that has as its core a “Flight Unlimited” like virtual world. You can fly around a very small part of the world in the default system, but to add to your simulation world, you have to purchase the additional scenery from MS. You want more than a 172, a Baron, or a 737? Simple, purchase it via the Live system.

Imagine for a moment the availability of liveries that would be made available. Without approval by the airlines, you can imagine the lack of variety in the “live” modeled aircraft. Under the present arrangement, freeware is seen as free advertising for the United’s, American’s, Lufthansa’s and others of the world. Insert the dollar into the equation, and it is reasonable to expect that our current arrangement with carriers would evaporate. Would MS consider providing freeware via its live system? Don’t hold your breath – too many liability concerns, copyright infringement risks, product support and management issues to take on for free.

What about VATSIM, IVAO and the plethora of other peripheral attractions that we now benefit from? Imagine paying to connect to VATSIM for an hour or two of supervised flight. Spend some time thinking about the ramifications of this, and it only gets scarier.

We have a simple new reality to face up to; Microsoft has changed their business model as regards the flight simulation genre and we are seeing the first steps of that new model taking hold. We can assume that a “live” version will entail online subscription costs per month or year, and additional add-on’s will cost us.

[Adino]

In my humble opinion flightsim is not dead we have FS9 and FSX full of potential and lot of talented guys out there so way to go....X-plane is not a real sultion at moment (maybe in the future) as at lacks the developer and community backbone of FS...and by time we have seen all of FSX we probbably will have a new FS...just my thoughts...:roll:;)

[mattford1]

Adino-
I totally agree on FS9 and FSX having longevity. FSX I think was particularly good especially with SimConnect. Regarding future versions, that post was from an article in Avsim, and this jives with my MS sources. I think it's pretty much a long shot that FS will appear again, and if it does, it would likely not be in a PC form. While I agree FSX can continue on for some time with 3rd party stuff, I think it's hopeful thinking for FS to be developed again. You can thank Steve Balmer for that (and the economy of course).

I do hope that X-Plane will get on the band wagon in terms of having the sort of support and backbone to enable the 3rd party people to take the sim seriously. I think it has potential, it just needs to be fleshed out more.

Matt


In my humble opinion flightsim is not dead we have FS9 and FSX full of potential and lot of talented guys out there so way to go....X-plane is not a real sultion at moment (maybe in the future) as at lacks the developer and community backbone of FS...and by time we have seen all of FSX we probbably will have a new FS...just my thoughts...:roll:;)

[ivar hestnes]

I think Matt Ford has a good point here. MS is not interested in the community. They do this only for the cash. So they want to make the current cash flow to increase and also they want to make money on all aspects that are involved with their platform.

Why would they else quit on FS as it is per today, when they were making money on it. Simple. They want to make more money. They dont care a nickle about the community. The ones that got fired, they cared. Many of them vwere dedicated to what they did. But the owners, they dont care.

I think msfs as a "simulation" stops with FSX. This is it. We have to stick with what we already have, and what can be developed within that platform. And we can expect that X-plane slowly will overtake "our" market in flight simulation. Companies that have developed addons for msfs are interested in continue their business like today without MS controlling it, so I think it will be very naturally that they start looking at X-plane. (They probably already are).

Future msfs will be a cash-flowing game, 100% controlled by MS, and nothing more.

Just my thoughts:)

[Jackpilot]

Adino you are 100% right.

What MS management will do in 2 or 3 years is unknown to MS itself.
Those who, according to "anonymous" sources, think that this is the End of the World have little point debating the fact anymore since their world has ended...Period.
Those who think otherwise still have a lot to do with what they have built so far.
My 2 billion dollars.
Jack

[mattford1]

Jackpilot-

I hope you prove me wrong :-). I'm going to really miss FS.

Matt



Adino you are 100% right.

What MS management will do in 2 or 3 years is unknown to MS itself.
Those who, according to "anonymous" sources, think that this is the End of the World have little point debating the fact anymore since their world has ended...Period.
Those who think otherwise still have a lot to do with what they have built so far.
My 2 billion dollars.
Jack

[Jackpilot]

Hey Matt...FS is still here....!! But we will miss you dearly if you migrate from it!! (lol)



BTW Prices on EBay shoot up...grab copies while you can!

Have a great day

Jack

[mattford1]

Hi Jack-

I hear you and i'm not going away anytime soon. I'll stay with FSX as long as I can, until at which point if there is nothing new from MS, or if X-Plane addresses some of it's issues, then I'll switch. I love FSX no doubt (was on the beta team for it). FS2004 rocked as well.

I'm in the middle of installing a brand new Level D visual system, so the graphics are pretty much a moot point for me now. It's really a matter of flight modeling and smoothly driving my visuals (which I'm having a problem doing so with MSFS). I'm hoping the PMDG 737NGX comes out soon! The one for FS2004 flew like the real thing.

Matt


Hey Matt...FS is still here....!! But we will miss you dearly if you migrate from it!! (lol)



BTW Prices on EBay shoot up...grab copies while you can!

Have a great day

Jack