New member :)

[Nikola]

Hi, I'm Nikola Jovanovic from Belgrade age 19

I'm intending to start build cockpit...there is a little problem with money, but I'm planning to do that step by step...
I don't want to do with 737NG or A320 because most home cockpit are that type... I want B744 or MD-11 cockpit, but I have problem with parts...most companies makes components for 737 and A320...I can't find much for other aircrafts...
Please some advice from wich part to start...and where to look for parts.
Thanks :)

[Mike.Powell]

Welcome to MyCockpit, Nikola.

A partial solution to money problems and scarce parts is to make most of the simulator parts yourself. I think there is great satisfaction in building even if my results aren't as perfect as the purchased items. I suggest building those items first which will get you "flying" as soon as possible. It's always nice to have an at least partially operating simulator to remind you why you're building things. So, perhaps start with a yoke then move on to a throttle quad or a set of pedals.

[Nikola]

Welcome to MyCockpit, Nikola.

A partial solution to money problems and scarce parts is to make most of the simulator parts yourself. I think there is great satisfaction in building even if my results aren't as perfect as the purchased items. I suggest building those items first which will get you "flying" as soon as possible. It's always nice to have an at least partially operating simulator to remind you why you're building things. So, perhaps start with a yoke then move on to a throttle quad or a set of pedals.

that's true...that is the most satisfaction when make parts all alone :) I'll keep that in mind... I thought about it, and it's not too hard to make some of it...I can't say that I'm good in electronic, and I must buy some elctronic :)

For now, I have saitek gear: Joustick, throttle quad. and pedals :) It's really good expirience, but I fly 10 years, and finally, I'm ready to do something more and to improve my envirnoment :) It's unique feeling when you can press every button and switch for real..when you turn on power and see al that lights :)
I intent first to make some universal MCP... for B737/B747....it's quite same
I'm thinking about MD-11, but I can't find anything about Md-11 home built cockpits, and for now have to do with boeing :) And I have to find some clear space to put all stuff on it :)

[AndyT]

Have a look at this;
http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?aircraft_genericsearch=McDonnell+Douglas+MD-11%7CBoeing+MD-11&airlinesearch=&countrysearch=&specialsearch=cockpit&daterange=&keywords=&range=&sort_order=&page_limit=15&thumbnails=&calccount=1357282&truecount=false&engine_version=6.0

And this;
http://www.goflightinc.com/order/product_info.php?products_id=80&osCsid=2bh1u7pjabej1ps0ohncufvfg4

[Nikola]

Thanks for aswer, I saw MCP pro, and I'll probably buy it for few days
I saw most of this pictures earlier...but that don't give me anything about scale....I want 1:1 frame replica... I saw that you made it with wood, and I found that is very cheap option, so I intent to do same...I need some blueprints or something like that cause I don't have access to real cockpit :)

[Michael Carter]

Lacking any sort of drawings or another builder building the same type, photos and a few pieces of real equipment can go a long way to scale the size correctly.

Start searching e-Bay for a few parts so you have a reference for the rest that you want to build. Save your sellers and searches and check them often. There are a lot of used aircraft parts dealers on e-Bay. You just need to look often so you don't miss anything you might need.

Good luck with your build.

[Nikola]

For now, I can't find anything on eBay, only old Flight enginer 747 chair :)...I'll keep monitoring offers...

[brynjames]

Thanks for aswer, I saw MCP pro, and I'll probably buy it for few days
I saw most of this pictures earlier...but that don't give me anything about scale....I want 1:1 frame replica... :)

Make sure you know the limitations of what you are getting with the GoFlight MCP Pro. Firstly, you can only use all of the functions (like LNAV, VNAV) on the panel if you have the Level D 767, the Wilco PIC 737, or the Project Magenta suite. Otherwise, you will be restricted to the basic limited FS autopilot functions.

Also, the GoFlight module seems to be 85% of full size, which is the same scale as the module from certain other suppliers. Funny that - I suspect someone is using somebody else's designs under licence. 100% scale MCP's seem to be considerably more expensive.

--
Bryn

[Nikola]

brynjames, thanks for post :) I saw that about scale in some documents today... I prefer PMDG products...I hope that MCPPro is fully compatible with their software

[brynjames]

I prefer PMDG products...I hope that MCPPro is fully compatible with their software

No! My post lists the only aircraft/applications fully compatible with the MCP Pro "straight out of the box". For the PMDG 747 and 737 you need an extra driver which used to be on sale from PMDG (at about $50 if I remember correctly), but now these drivers are provided by another company. As was reported recently in another thread, PMDG have withdrawn the FS2004 driver from sale and the other company say they don't have the right to sell it - so you can't get it at all. I don't know all the details, but suggest you do a bit more research to get the facts before parting with $500 :p

I should add that I have an MCP Pro and am quite satisfied with it.

Good luck!

--
Bryn

[Nikola]

Hm...that is the problem...You're wright , I don't whant to give 500E for something that don;t work with my sim :) Are there any MCP product that is compatible with PMDG products, or I must have that mysteriously drivers?

[Kennair]

For full size and full functionality I would recommend the Opencockpit (http://www.opencockpits.com/catalog/737ng-without-p-111.html?cPath=22)version of the 737 MCP. And it's just 280 Euro.

Also, I'm not sure how much functionality the Flight1 MD-11 has but it appears to be very realistic and combined with FSUIPC's mouse-trapping function you could get most functions realistic.

I think the challenge of building something non-standard offers a huge degree of satisfaction (as well as frustration!).

Just a thought.

Ken.

[Nikola]

what do you think about buying open cockpit master card and display card and to start building by myself ? do you have some expirience with that hardware? If I use it, what software I need? It is not to expensive... I need 200E, and I have much more space for later upgrading because I wouldn't use all 72 input, and I can set 4 master cards on my PC...that gives me lot of space. I have read that I can set display card on Master card and use 16 7-segment displays...ideal for MCP...I can made fully functional and realistic MD-11 MCP in 1:1 size on that way? And again, I don't understand clearly can I on this way map PMDG MD-11 comands, or I have to use that software you tell me...if I have to use it, plase some link where I can buy it

[Kennair]

Yes Nikola you could build the MCP yourself as you suggest but be prepared for a lot of work! I bought the pre-built model as it was only a little more expensive. There is a really good tutorial on how to do this HERE (http://personales.ya.com/micabina737/paneles/mip/mcp/mcp1i.htm).

I have most of the Opencockpit hardware and I've just finished building the avionics stack comprising 2 x Comm, 2 x Nav, 1 x ADF & 1 x XPDR. It's a **** of a lot of work but well worth it. Have a look at my website (http://www.kennair.com.au/avionics.html)for instructions on how to build the Comm panel. Later I will be putting together a complete tutorial on building all these units. This should give you an idea of the scale of work required and whether it's something you could undertake. The software you will need for the Opencockpit hardware is SIOC and is free from the Opencockpit website. You will need to do a lot of research on how to use this though as instructions for most OC gear is very limited, and mostly in Spanish. For an introduction to OC hardware have a look HERE (http://personales.ya.com/micabina737/iocards/hard/descripcioni.htm).

I don't know enough about the PMDG MD-11 to answer your other questions but if the MD-11 is anything like their 737/747 then you will be able to map commands to the OC hardware. You will need to do a lot of reading and researching before you start but it's certainly possible to do as you ask.

Good luck,

Ken.

[Nikola]

I definitely going to buy master card and other stuff...
I have seen your website and manuals... It's great...
I know how to made printed circuit board, but I don't have any expirience with building a front cower with engraved text and with nightlighting...I like it very much, but I don't understand very well wich material you used, where I can buy it, how to engrave text and cut panel on proper measurements?

[Kennair]

Nikola, I wouldn't bother making the panel, purchase the laser etched panel from OC HERE (http://www.opencockpits.com/catalog/panel-opencockpits-p-120.html?cPath=23_25_40). It's cost you 56 Euros but well worth it. To make it yourself you would need either a CNC or laser cutting machine, both white and clear acrylic sheeting for the main and backing panels and Boeing gray paint.

Ken.

[brynjames]

it's certainly possible to do as you ask.


...but I thought it was not possible to get the digits out from the PMDG 737/747 to display on the MCP because many of the necessary interface parameters are not published (as recently noted by Ian and Kiek), unless the large expense of the Project Magenta software is thrown in! Even Peter Dowson's FSUIPC mousetrapping is not going to get digits or annunciator states out. And the situation would not be any better for the MD11.

I may be completely wrong, so please put me right if I am ;)

--
Bryn

[Nikola]

...but I thought it was not possible to get the digits out from the PMDG 737/747 to display on the MCP because many of the necessary interface parameters are not published (as recently noted by Ian and Kiek), unless the large expense of the Project Magenta software is thrown in! Even Peter Dowson's FSUIPC mousetrapping is not going to get digits or annunciator states out. And the situation would not be any better for the MD11.

I may be completely wrong, so please put me right if I am ;)

--
Bryn

What software you're using for your simulator, I meen FS addon?

[Kennair]

Hi Bryn,

I'm not exactly sure what the stated problem is as the OC MCP certainly has SIOC files for the PMDG aircraft. Isn't it just using standard FS output for digit display eg. Altitude and Speed of aircraft etc.? I've flown Westozy's PMDG 737 using the CPFlight MCP and all functions work perfectly. As for annunciator states, that's another story, but you could program this in SIOC after some serious systems analysis.

I'm not totally familiar with the PMDG aircraft and I would certainly bow to the likes of Ian and Nico as to details. As I said, given that many of the PMDG functions being mapped to key strokes it's possible to get many things active via hardware but as for specifics you would have to try it out but I'm only talking about input states like switch actions and pushbutton etc, not output functions like warning lights. Of course the MD-11 may well be a different beast altogether.

Ken.

[Nikola]

Hi Bryn,

I'm not exactly sure what the stated problem is as the OC MCP certainly has SIOC files for the PMDG aircraft. Isn't it just using standard FS output for digit display eg. Altitude and Speed of aircraft etc.? I've flown Westozy's PMDG 737 using the CPFlight MCP and all functions work perfectly. As for annunciator states, that's another story, but you could program this in SIOC after some serious systems analysis.

I'm not totally familiar with the PMDG aircraft and I would certainly bow to the likes of Ian and Nico as to details. As I said, given that many of the PMDG functions being mapped to key strokes it's possible to get many things active via hardware but as for specifics you would have to try it out but I'm only talking about input states like switch actions and pushbutton etc, not output functions like warning lights. Of course the MD-11 may well be a different beast altogether.

Ken.

what software you use intead PMDG?

[brynjames]

I've flown Westozy's PMDG 737 using the CPFlight MCP and all functions work perfectly. As for annunciator states, that's another story, but you could program this in SIOC after some serious systems analysis.


Lucky man - wish I lived near Westozy!

The CPFlight MCP requires one of those expensive (but not nearly as expensive as Magenta) little software drivers from PMDG or the other company (forgot the name) doesn't it? (and they don't do one for OpenCockpits).

Kiek and IanG made the point that you can only use SIOC to get values out if you know where to look for them - and PMDG have not released an SDK so it can't at present be done. Unlike the good old Level D 767 of course, which has an SDK. Edit: I have just seen a reference to GlovePie on the Open Cockpits site which might overcome the problem, but I didn't understand it completely so I am not sure.

A great pity that the developers don't provide more information for builders.

I hope Nicola will be able to find a combination of hardware and software which will do what is required at a reasonable cost.
--
Bryn

[ian@737ng.co.uk]

hi chaps.......
first, OC MCP......it DOES WORK with the PMDG737. i've had one here for testing for future developments.. you can get the SIOC script from the OC website. but it is 737 specific. i have no idea whether it is going to work with the 747 or MD-11. but i suspect that it may not be too long before scripts appear if enough people take a shine to a paticular model.
what i can't get my head around is this and forgive me for being 'to the point'. most developers are in business to make money. it is a business. but they loose sight of what is happening out here in the real world or become paranoid about the security of their programs.
a lot of cockpit builders are going down the road of building a 737 (i know, i'm guilty as well), hence the multitude of panels, hardware, throttle quadrants, MCP's,and interface boards which are available for that aircraft. but, we have no aircraft we can 'hook into' without using this instrumentation package, that aircraft systems package, their input/output system or devising some personal way to get it working.
we are faced with a dilemma. it's happening to me. what's wrong with us?
don't you think it's time developers actually gave us what we want instead of releasing something in a blaze of glory which only partly addresses our requirement.
i suspect the search for the holy grail will continue for some time :o)
happy new year chaps..... ian