Autoland with Project Magenta

[abril]

Hi.
Can make Project Magenta AUTOLAND? Of being affirmative, what is the procedure?
The airplane is B737-800 of PMDG without panel and in FS9 and FSX .
Thanks for your attention.

Israel Abril Fernández

[flightdeck]

Hi,
the procedure is as follows:

---> Select Arrival Rwy in FMC
---> Select VRef and Flaps in FMC
---> Arm Speedbrakes
---> Select Autobrakes 1, 2, 3 or MAX
---> Tune ILS frequency in both NAV Radios (NAV1 and NAV2)
---> Select LOC Course in both OBS Bearing (MCP)
---> Select Autopilot A and B

That's the procedure I use in FS9, I assume it's the same in FSX!

[abril]

Thank you very much Rene, but I observe that is not " Dual Chanel" in the PFD. He is this correct one or it is that it must be implemented in the archives " Type".

Israel Abril Fernández

[yome]

Hi
I have the same problem.
I do the same procedure described by flightdeck but i got the message "single CH" in the PFD even if both autopilot A and B are selected.
Then when the glide is captured, the PFD shows CMD. And the FMA shows that VOR/LOC and G/S are active with FLARE armed (in white)
Finaly, when it's supposed to flare, it just crash without flaring at all. I check the mass and balance several time and it shows the correct values in the fms.
I use FS9 with 737-700 (panel.cfg with the view only) and the aircraft configuration file by Steve Reyling. (I olso tried with FSX and the Built in 737-800)
like Abril, I can't obtain the DUAL CH.

Any idea?
Thanks!

[JonathanRichardson]

>but i got the message "single CH" in the PFD even if both autopilot A and B are selected.

This is correct.

> Then when the glide is captured, the PFD shows CMD. And the FMA shows that VOR/LOC and G/S are active with FLARE armed (in white)

The FMA shows CMD at 1500ft. Not before. The AP dual channel check is only made at 1500ft, prior to this, it will still indicate Single CH.

>Finaly, when it's supposed to flare, it just crash without flaring at all. I check the mass and balance several time and it shows the correct values in the fms.

What is your weight and vref?

>like Abril, I can't obtain the DUAL CH.

Are you 100% sure? It sounds like you are expecting something that is not supposed to happen. . .

Regards
Jonathan Richardson
Project Magenta

[abril]

Hi.
For me it works fine.
Thanks

Israel Abril Fernández

[yome]

Hi Jonathan,

I finaly did it! :)
I found several mistakes in my configuration, I don't really know which is the good one.

I use the CPFlight mip board, there was a mistake in the "nose wheel steering" wiring.

In the MAINT A/T menu of the CDU, I modified some parameters: Autocoord was OFF, I set it ON and I set Flare at 50ft.

Since I did these modification, the plane wonderfully flare at 50ft :o)
Not really shure the items I change was rellated to my problem but the fact is: now it works!

Also, in the same menu, perhaps you can help me to understand what is the "THR SYNC" (set off) and the "F/D > 200ft" for?

Thanks and please Abril apologize for using your thread ;)

Guillaume.

[JonathanRichardson]

>In the MAINT A/T menu of the CDU, I modified some parameters: Autocoord was OFF, I set it ON and I set Flare at 50ft.

The flare altitude is for sure.

Also, in the same menu, perhaps you can help me to understand what is the "THR SYNC" (set off) and the "F/D > 200ft" for?

It is just to sync between the two throttles if you have two levers - to balance the thrust.

Leave the other commands if possible - they are to do with various options - if you start to fiddle with them, you are going to be in for a long ride of testing and cross checking - normally it is not necessary to touch these one would hope....

Regards
Jonathan Richardson

[blueskydriver]

Hey Guys,

If you're not already doing so, make sure your altimeter is set to the pressure of the airfield and the HDG should be set to the runway's true hdg in order for the flare to happen correctly and the steering to follow the runway. Otherwise, you'll be hitting hard and veering off the runway when autolanding...

John

[yome]

Thanks Jonathan for the advices.

Jkcombs, I knew about the altimeters but not about the HDG.. Not shure I was setting it correctly each times. ;)
Thanks guys

Guillaume.

[Peter Dowson]

... and the HDG should be set to the runway's true hdg ...

Are you sure it's the TRUE heading? I've always used the normal published MAG heading, the one provided by the CDU and ND. Charts give mag headings too -- and of course the mag var, but I never thought you'd need that adjustment except when actually using True headings for navigation at the polar regions.

Regards

Pete

[flightdeck]

This "extra" setting of the heading bug is not necessary as you have to adjust the heading knob in the MCP "always" to the actual figures flown by LNAV or during approach, when APP is armed (OBS course).
Another fact is, that you have to select the runway heading during approach for a possible G/A procedure as published.

In my PM MCP and CDU settings, during "autoland" the heading is automatically selected from the LOC course all along the rollout!

Cheers

[rhysb]

Peter, It is always advisable to yes use the heading of the runway supplied in the charts/MAG for the airport runway you are using (i.e for the ILS box used on the 75/67 aircraft). This is essential for correct use of the ILS and LOC systems on the aircraft.

I will give you an example the approach into Naples in italy the pilot actually dials in the app 2degrees to the left MAG to take into consideration for the effect of being in close prox to the Volcano.

So to conclude if you have an aircraft that has an ILS box or a instrument that requires the imput of the heading of the runway or ILS freq then yes you dial in the heading given by charts/FMC etc.

[Peter Dowson]

Peter, It is always advisable to yes use the heading of the runway supplied in the charts/MAG for the airport runway you are using (i.e for the ILS box used on the 75/67 aircraft). This is essential for correct use of the ILS and LOC systems on the aircraft.

Well, yes, that's what I thought! That's why the statement that we should be setting the TRUE heading instead got me posting the question. So you agree, it IS the MAG heading, not the TRUE heading?*

Regards

Pete

* Except of course in areas where TRUE headings are used in any case due to extreme mag variations.

[blueskydriver]

Sorry guys, I meant to say the actual heading that is shown on the charts. I was intending to say "make sure you use the runways' actual heading that is shown on the chart next to the runway in degrees". My mistake for saying True heading...

John

[JonathanRichardson]

Hi

Interesting comments. Whilst it is certainly good airmanship, there is no requirement in the logics to set the HDG SEL to runway heading for the Autoland to work (that I am aware of). If it is going off course at some point because this is not set, then that is not correct. I never observed that, but then again I am always setting the heading. Perhaps it is switching to HDG SEL during the flare or something causing the incorrectly commanded turn left or right if the HDG is not set. It is certainly an interesting point - I will check this!

Regards
Jonathan Richardson
Project Magenta

[mag]

i probe it, and its work;
only one thing more:
---> Select Arrival Rwy in FMC
---> Select VRef and Flaps in FMC
---> Arm Speedbrakes
---> Select Autobrakes 1, 2, 3 or MAX
---> Tune ILS frequency in both NAV Radios (NAV1 and NAV2)
---> Select LOC Course in both OBS Bearing (MCP)
select APP
---> Select Autopilot A and B
i see in the sreen the LAND 2 and flare

[JonathanRichardson]

Hi

There is one fundemental thing that needs to be set in the MCP.ini file if you have not got it set and that is the roll out mode Rollout=Off -> must be: Rollout=ON. This is a bit of a tricky area, and I will try to explain. The 737 does not have a rollout mode (it is upgrade/option) like the 747. The rollout mode means it will steer the a/c right down the centre line at highspeed, in the 747 on the FMA Rollout is indicated, on the 737 it is not / unless with the upgrade option. However, for everything to work in the constraints of MSFS and if you want a full CATIII autoland system, you need this Rollout mode active n the mcp.ini, even though it won't show up on the FMA (when you have it set to on [correctly for PM 737 version]) it is working in the background to ensure that the a/c does not veer left or right just after or prior to touch down because it forces the AP to steer a current track.

So, in summary, if you don't have this selected, then you are going to have to disengage the AP prior to touchdown on a full autoland, if you do, then you should have no problems even in zero vis.

Regards
Jonathan Richardson
Project Magenta

[Thunder175]

All, I hate to bring up an older thread but everything I have tried in this post has failed. I had a CATIII approach the other day and it wasn't working so I spent all night tonight repeating the same approach over and over again to no avail.

I am using the PMDG 737 with a stripped panel (no panel) and the 73G config files directly from the PM website.

After doing everything detailed here and verifying multiple times, the flare simply does not happen. At 50' AGL where it should go to flare mode, the annunciators change to HDG SEL and ALT ACQ and commands the plane into a turn on whatever the heading knob is selected to. The plane slams into the runway at -700 ft/m and then tries to roll to a different heading.

Rollout=On is enable in the MCP.ini file, and I'm using all the latest versions of the software. I remember this feature working a long time ago but I haven't tried a CATIII approach in so long I never realized it stopped working at some point.

[JonathanRichardson]

> At 50' AGL where it should go to flare mode, the annunciators change to HDG SEL and ALT ACQ and commands the plane into a turn on whatever the heading knob is selected to. The plane slams into the runway at -700 ft/m and then tries to roll to a different heading.

Hi

It sounds as though your weight and ref speeds are wrong then. What was the gross weight? And what was the Vref? The a/c will flare if it can - if it is outside the performance curve it wont be able to. This is working fine in the software - been doing them all week.

>Rollout=On is enable in the MCP.ini file, and I'm using all the latest versions of the software.

Could it be that the roll to the left is in some way associated to a stall? Or perhaps both AP's were not engaged? I tested with PMDG recently as well as other flight models - it is working fine.

>I remember this feature working a long time ago but I haven't tried a CATIII approach in so long I never realized it stopped working at some point.[/QUOTE]

It is still working - I think either a set-up or ref speed problem, unless you have a problem with the datarate to the MCP.

Regards
Jonathan Richardson
Project Magenta