Question About Asbestos/Hazardous Materials

[stevem]

Thanks in-advance for any insight. I'm considering obtaining a Convair C-131 (Convair 240/340) cockpit, built in the 1950's. It occurred to me that there could be asbestos, radioactive materials, etc., that were used in the construction of the aircraft.

Does anyone know anything about such hazardous materials and how to test for presence of them? I'd like to build a simulator out of it, but without breathing asbestos dust, etc. Thanks.

[JSpahn]

There are a number of asbestos test kits out there, here is one as an example:

http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1296032

Im willing to bet you would need to employ a service to test for the presence of radioactivity

[JBaymore]

stevem,

For years I was the chairperson of the health and safety committee for the college I teach at.

If there IS any asbestos present....... the remediation process is a VERY expensive endeavor. Even if the pit shell was absolutely free,......... it'd end up being an outrageously expensive pit in the end.

The test kits are only as good as the locations that you choose to test. So the test kit stuff is best used by someone with a trained "eye" that knows where to test. The date frame is correct for there to still have been asbestos in common use..... so you are right to be concerned. But I don't know if it was actually USED in aircraft construction.

While a "do it yourself" approach to cleaning it up may seem possible.... you are exposing yourself to signigficant risks. And possibly your family .,....what with stuff on your clothes and in the wash and so on.

And then you get into how to dispose of what you clean out. And potential contamination of your property. And so on.

Go ahead VERY carefully if you suspect this is the case.

best,

.....................john

[ak49er]

I agree with both post, but being the everlast DIY'er, Asbestos abatement does not seem insurmountable. Building an airtight tent, constructing a filter/entrapment system with a box fan/household forced air system filter, wetting down all surfaces and wiping/removing all surfaces/debris, thats' easy stuff (Don't forget proper personal protective equipment, respirator, goggles, suit,etc.) The big cost would be properly disposing of all materials removed or involved in the abatement of the material. Expensive where I live, maybe not for you. Big project though.

[stevem]

Thanks for the info... I'll keep that in mind. I'll have to do some checking around to see if asbestos was used in the construction of aircraft.

[JBaymore]

Building an airtight tent, constructing a filter/entrapment system with a box fan/household forced air system filter,...... .

AK49er,

With all due respect........ it is not quite as easy as you might think.

Just taking one point in your list above there is at least one "hole" I can punch in it....... which if followed could potentially expose the worker in the area and anyone near the work location to even greater asbestos hazards. And likely contaminate a wider area than the pit enclosure ....which then would need addressing.

That standard home furnace filter will do NOTHING ....except make you THINK it is doing the job.

For this purpose nothing short of a NIOSH/MESA HEPA rated filter would do the job. The large particles of asbestos are not a big issue.....it is the sub-micron ones that get into the deep lung tissue and cause the plaques, lesions and cancers like mesothelioma. Only the HEPAs take out the necessary levels of those smaller particles.

And to deal with the pressure drop across such a high resistance filter and still move any volume of air would likely take more than a simple box fan.

That home filter would stop the big stuff, and let the sub-microns right through. The air velocity would whip those small particles right into the air where they will stay suspended for as much as 24 hours due to the impact of interuptions in the selling rate due to the motion of the air molecules themselves.

It is about "risk taking" and what someone actually wants to do.

With the long latencies for these types of pneumoconosis diseases, the associations of bad exposure levels and the disease ramifications of the exposure are so far apart that it is way too late when you find out that your precautions did not work well.

I have seen and am seeing artist friends sick and dying of exposures to their materials. As a potter, respiratory exposures are a particular interest for me.

best,

...............john

[ak49er]

True, John, about the household filter, It's the best I could think of while dreaming up a basic garage/backyard scenario, yes one needs to use the HEPA/NIOSH approved filter according to CFR 49.blady-blah with the correct CFM,LPM yaddah fan in a grounded outlet on a clear day.. I can't disagree with you, I learned all that and more while getting my abatement card, and on abatement jobs on Adak Island, AK. First and last job doing that work, Davis-Bacon wages or not, Quickly got transfered to the Fuel Product Recovery Department. I should have had my coffee first. Thanks for the correction.

[Mike.Powell]

Steve,

You may be able to get definitive answers to your questions by contacting research or restoration staff at larger aviation museums. The National Air and Space Mueseum Archives division will answer brief questions by telephone, more involved questions by mail. I suspect that the Air Force Museum in Dayton may offer similar help. And then there's also the EAA.

http://www.nasm.si.edu/research/arch/services.cfm#contact
http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/research/
http://www.warbirds-eaa.org/who/contact.html

[stevem]

Thanks for all of the answers. I contacted the Pima Air And Space Museum and left a message. I'll also contact The National Air and Space Mueseum Archives.

[JBaymore]

Mike,

Brilliant suggestion!

best,

...............john

[JBaymore]

...... I learned all that and more while getting my abatement card, and on abatement jobs on Adak Island, AK. First and last job doing that work, Davis-Bacon wages or not, Quickly got transfered to the Fuel Product Recovery Department.

AK49er,

Aha... I see we both have had "formal" training in this stuff.

God bless the guys that do this hazmat remediation and disposal for a FT job. I can't imagine deliberately doing that no matter HOW much they paid me.

I didn't means to "jump" on you by any mmeans...and apologize if it felt that way.... I just wanted to make sure that as this thread got committed to the inevitable "immortality" on the www what with its archiving properties.... that it had a few more pieces of information in it.

I too see some of the regs as "overkill",....... but some of them are not. The problem is telling which is which. ;)

best,

................john

[Rodney]

Seems to me that if there was asbestos used then it would have to be identified as hazardous. The buyer would have to relinquish the seller of all liabilities in writing. Then it would still have to be tracked by some sort of govt agency would it not? They close and seal schools for it (forever(the one I know of are in a very deterorated state)). What would it be used for in a cockpit? Some type of fire blanket i presume. But hey, I know nothing of this, just thinking out loud.

[Michael Carter]

Not always. It was also used for insulating hydraulic, oil, and fuel lines. It was also used to protect some electrical wiring from abrasion.

[AndyT]

In about 100 years they are going to tell us that plastic in any form has been killing people off for ages. Hmmm... Cardboard MIP anyone?