NaviGraph data and PM??

[JWS]

Hi,

I wonder if the NAviGraph cycles can be used now in the PM CDU etc.
When NaviGraph started there were lot's of problems and we were advised to use the latest test file from PM (1206).
Any news about this?

JWS

[flightdeck]

Hi there,
I am using the PM Navigraph cycles on a monthly basis with no problems at all.

The only problems observed (sometimes spoiling the whole flightplan when entering SIDs or STARs) are not Navigraph related.

[michelmvd]

Hello,

I also can confirm I'm using the latest Navigraph NavData. Most things are working correctly and also approaches are available.
Nevertheless the common and wellknown "CDU problems" are there too, just as they are in all versions, from the moment the datasource DAFIF ended to be available. (losing complete routes when entering STARS, aircraft returning to startpoint etc etc) but this is not Navdata related.

As far I know, Enrico is still working at it, so we only can hope that once these problems will be solved in the near futur.

B. rgds
Michel

[RGroebl]

Hello,

I also use the latest Datas from Navigraph with no failure.

Greets

Roland

[jrphcien]

hello,

i use the full PM set up (PFD PM system MCP CDU) with MSFS 2004

if a navaid is available in MSFS but not CDU database, is it possible to use it if we navigate with MCP (heading select, app mode) ? When i try to capture the cylw (kelowna, BC Canada) ILs (XLW,localizer 109.5, data from MSFS 2004) using the MCP in APP mode (correct course entered on MCP, correct angle, armed LOC and GS on the PFD). On the PFD, the plabe initially capture it but it is not aligned with the runway then it goes back to Heading Select.
please !
jean-louis

[JWS]

I installed the latest airac from NaviGraph but haven't tested it extensively yet. I noticed that using it on Heathrow 2008 megascenery (FS9) from Aerosoft the runways aren't aligned and the same goes for the ILS. Can this be fixed?

I also noticed that one file (cdu.nap) - that has to be placed in the CDU folder (together with the other files to be installed) - isn't transported automatically to the Data folder when starting the FMC program (as stated by the readme file). Perhaps PM doesn't recognize this file. I guess that this file contains the nighttransitions for e.g. Amsterdam (EHAM).
For the use at Amsterdam I've made these nighttransitions myself in an extra approach file (appdata2.txt; see attachement). Just put this file (unzipped) in you CDU data folder and they will appear as Artip, River & Sugol approaches to rwy's 06 and 18R. I do recommend to use it as a separate file. Inserting the text in the normal appdata file didn't work that well. Hope you find them useful.
It goes without saying that I do not accept any liability for damage what soever caused by using this file.:)

Best regards,

JWS

[michelmvd]

Hello ;)
If the ILS isn't aligned in the Aerosoft LHR 2008, then it can be 2 things, or the AFCAD (fs2004) data for position /heading is wrong, or the Navigraph data is wrong. As far I know, the NAVDATA is extracted from a database available for commerical civil aviation. I think PM is just reading both data out. Don't know if any calculations is done here. Magnetic drift difference?

Maybe yoiu can ajust the afcad file.

B. Rgds
Michel

[Peter Dowson]

If the ILS isn't aligned in the Aerosoft LHR 2008, then it can be 2 things, or the AFCAD (fs2004) data for position /heading is wrong, or the Navigraph data is wrong.

I'm pretty sure that, whilst the NAVDATA will be used for plotting the flight path and so on, and providing info in the CDU, the ILS alignment and approach actually used by the MCP will always be from the data it gets from FS , the same as for the NAV radio frequency tuned in and controlling the GS and LOC needles-- so that will be from the AFD BGL scenery file.

It sounds like there's more than one AFD scenery file active, and the top-layered one (lower priority number in FS's scenery library list) is not a good match for the Aerosoft Heathrow 2008 scenery. The one which came with it should be okay, so one solution is to raise the Heathrow scenery entry in the library to a much higher level (lower number in the dialogue).

Regards

Pete

[jrphcien]

Maybe it could help....
jean-louis
AFCAD repair files for AeroSoft Mega-Aiport Frankfurt and London Heathrow 2008

fsc_eddf_mega_afcad.zip (http://www.fscommander.com/files/fsc_eddf_mega_afcad.zip)
fsc_egll_mega_afcad.zip (http://www.fscommander.com/files/fsc_egll_mega_afcad.zip)
Some versions of the original AFCAD files which ship with AeroSoft Mega-Airport Frankfurt and London Heathrow 2008 sceneries are lacking entries which may lead to missing ILS information both in Flight Simulator and FlightSim Commander. Download the repair files to obtain proper ILS setups for these sceneries. Please read the enclosed readme file carefully. For owners of Mega-Airport Frankfurt and/or London Heathrow 2008 only.

[JWS]

It sounds like there's more than one AFD scenery file active, and the top-layered one (lower priority number in FS's scenery library list) is not a good match for the Aerosoft Heathrow 2008 scenery. The one which came with it should be okay, so one solution is to raise the Heathrow scenery entry in the library to a much higher level (lower number in the dialogue).

Regards

Pete

Pete,

I'll have a look but can't think of another AFCAD file since that would be the standard file and Aerosoft EGLL is very high on the list.

jrphcien, these files concern FlightSim Commander which I don't use.



When I tried to position the a/c on Rwy 09R using the position feature in the PM FMC, I endend up way in front of the thresh hold, on the left side of the runway, not heading towards the end of it and the magenta line for the BKP departure started somewhere left of the runway. Does this give a clue?

JWS

[Peter Dowson]

I'll have a look but can't think of another AFCAD file since that would be the standard file and Aerosoft EGLL is very high on the list.
There was a little utility program which scanned for duplicate AFD files (was it "ScanAFD"?). Not sure whether that works with FSX-type files though.

You could run my MakeRunways utility (www.schiratti.com/dowson (http://www.schiratti.com/dowson)). Place it into the main FS folder and run it. When it has finished, search the (very large) "Runways.txt" file for EGLL. Make sure the last set of entries n there are for the Aerosoft version (the filename is provided).

You can also search the R5.CSV file for EGLL to see the runway and ILS details. Thresholds as well.


jrphcien, these files concern FlightSim Commander which I don't use.The BGL files they include are AFD files. They are scenery files which set or fix airport information in FS. They aren't specific to any one external program. If wrong values affect FSCommander they will affect any program which uses the same information.

I've downloaded them myself and will compare them with the originals when I get a chance.


When I tried to position the a/c on Rwy 09R using the position feature in the PM FMC, I endend up way in front of the thresh hold, on the left side of the runway, not heading towards the end of it A lot of sceneries have non-standard "Start" positions - all the normal FS ones are on the runway threshold facing the runway direction, but several scenery makers like to put them at a "Stop" point off the runway. I expect this is a good idea for on-line fliers, where suddenly making your aircraft appear on the runway is a really unpopular move.

I've no idea where PM gets its position data for placing aircraft. That's a feature of PM I didn't even know existed, and so have never used it. But if it is supposed to be planting it on the runway facing the right direction, maybe the NavData it is using is suspect.


and the magenta line for the BKP departure started somewhere left of the runway. Does this give a clue?Hmm. That does seem odd. Have SimWings moved the runways away from reality? I would assume the NAVDATa gave the true real world position, so the Aerosoft scenery should be the same.

I'll be looking at Aerosoft's EGLL more over the weekend. Maybe I'll get back if I notice anything odd, or otherwise.

Regards

Pete

[JWS]

There was a little utility program which scanned for duplicate AFD files (was it "ScanAFD"?). Not sure whether that works with FSX-type files though.

I've no idea where PM gets its position data for placing aircraft. That's a feature of PM I didn't even know existed, and so have never used it. But if it is supposed to be planting it on the runway facing the right direction, maybe the NavData it is using is suspect.

I'll be looking at Aerosoft's EGLL more over the weekend. Maybe I'll get back if I notice anything odd, or otherwise.

Regards

Pete

Pete,

to prevent confusion, I use FS9/2004 (not FSX).

I presume that PM's set position feature does the same what FS does with Go to Airport/runway xxx. So I therefore assume that it uses the FS (standard or modified AFCAD) data and not NaviGraph.

I'll check this weekend once more.

Regards,

JWS

[Peter Dowson]

I'll be looking at Aerosoft's EGLL more over the weekend. Maybe I'll get back if I notice anything odd, or otherwise.

I've just checked the data on the Aerosoft Heathrow EGLL. There are some small differences, but nothing that great:

The default FSX runways (ignoring 23) are:

09R Lat 51.464767 Long -0.486783 Alt 83 Hdg 93 Len 11978 Wid 164
27L Lat 51.464943 Long -0.434046 Alt 83 Hdg 273 Len 11978 Wid 164
09L Lat 51.477486 Long -0.489342 Alt 83 Hdg 93 Len 12786 Wid 164
27R Lat 51.477676 Long -0.433031 Alt 83 Hdg 273 Len 12786 Wid 164

Those lat/lons are the computed thresholds, using the runway centre point and its orientation and length. My program uses those rather than the "start" points provided by the BGLs because, as I said, they may be off the runway at a hold.

The MEGA 2008 runways, in FSX, are:

09R Lat 51.464661 Long -0.488373 Alt 83 Hdg 93 Len 12306 Wid 660
27L Lat 51.464958 Long -0.434193 Alt 83 Hdg 273 Len 12306 Wid 660
09L Lat 51.477402 Long -0.489779 Alt 83 Hdg 93 Len 12776 Wid 250
27R Lat 51.477707 Long -0.433514 Alt 83 Hdg 273 Len 12776 Wid 250

Now the 9R/27L width seems odd, and you'll note that they've lengthened it too, by over 300 feet (whilst shortening the other just a tad). But the thresholds work out quite close. Let's take just 09R to see:

Latitude difference = 0.0001 degrees. About 37 feet? Still well within the original runway width. Longitude difference = 0.0016 degrees. That's a lot more -- about 250 feet at this latitude?

But both of those changes would be accounted for by the difference in the runway length. You'll notice that the differences for 9L/27R are far less, mainly because the length hasn't been changed much.

I also checked those replacement (FSCommander) files, and they don't change any of this.

The ILS settings are very similar in both, here:

Default FSX:
Primary ILS: IBB 109.50 Hdg: 89.7 , Flags: GS DME BC "CAT III ILS/DME 09R"
Secondary ILS: ILL 109.50 Hdg: 269.7 , Flags: GS DME BC "CAT III ILS/DME 27L"
Primary ILS: IAA 110.30 Hdg: 89.7 , Flags: GS DME BC "CAT III ILS/DME 09L"
Secondary ILS: IRR 110.30 Hdg: 269.7 , Flags: GS DME BC "CAT III ILS/DME 27R"

Heathrow 2008:
Primary ILS: IBB 109.50 Hdg: 89.5 , Flags: GS DME "CAT III ILS/DME 09R"
Secondary ILS: ILL 109.50 Hdg: 269.5 , Flags: GS DME "CAT III ILS/DME 27L"
Primary ILS: IAA 110.30 Hdg: 89.7 , Flags: GS DME "CAT III ILS/DME 09L"
Secondary ILS: IRR 110.30 Hdg: 269.5 , Flags: GS DME "CAT III ILS/DME 27R"

So Approach mode should work pretty much identically for both.

Regards

Pete

[JWS]

Pete,

your weekend seems to be damned fast;)

Now what's the ILS course/Rwy heading: 90/270 of 93/273 (or perhaps 94/274?)

JWS

[Peter Dowson]

Now what's the ILS course/Rwy heading: 90/270 of 93/273 (or perhaps 94/274?)

See what I posted: it was all there already. 93/273 Magnetic runway headings (to nearest degree) for both default and Mega2008.

More accurate are the ILS headings which are in degrees True: 89.7/269.7 for the default, 89.5/269.5 for Mega2008. Those are the same as the runway heading in degrees True. There's no offset. Your autolands should be perfect! ;-)

Pete