Crisis point!

[David Rogers]

Hey all,

I've reached a stage in my pit build that concerns me ..... I was wanting to know if others have been through this......

"Oh my lord, did I choose the wrong aircraft?"..... :roll:

My pit is at a stage I could only have dreamed of 6 months ago - gorgous Engravity Main Instrument Panel, Project Magenta, CP Flight MCP and EFIS, Engravity CDU, etc, etc, etc....

But I feel a little as though there is somethig missing - and that's a passion for the 737.... :oops:

You see the main thing that influenced my choice of pit was the availability of 'out of the box' parts ..... I sadly don't have the skills or equipment to make parts, so I went with the NG because of things like the CP MCP, Engravity CDU... and of course the panel kits themselves.

However, the 737NG is not really an aircraft that has ever captured much of my imagination. I tend to like either the extremes of cutting edge technology, or else the character and vintage of older aircraft... (hence I'm a fan of the A32X and the Boeing 727 in particular).

I am certainly not shelving my current pit just yet - heck, how can I when I have invested quite a lot of money in it, in a short time! .... but I am wondering whether I can keep the enthusiasm and passion to continue deveoping it in the long-term, when the fact of the matter (that I so foolishly overlooked when starting out), is that I'm not really excited by the 737NGs !!

Am I as stupid as I feel at the moment, or have others gone through a crisis like this ?

[Bob Reed]

I found out a long time ago by letting other people talk me into other aircraft that if you are not building the one you want, you are in trouble. My first love was the 737NG and I switched to a ERJ and then the 777. I am now building the 737NG which I will never switch from. I love that airplane. Does not matter what reason you think is good.... build the one you want or you will never be happy in this hobby. Yes you have invested lots of $$ but change now before you invest more $$ and then let the thing sit because it does not do what you thought it would for you. That would be a waste of $$!! Just my 2 cents...

[Tomlin]

No, not at all- it's kinda like your wedding week. You may feel that you have or are about to make a bad decision. However, you may not wind up ever really liking the 737. What I would suggest would be to drastically change the type of flights that you conduct. Maybe do some charter-type flights with a -700 into small airports that are not considered commercial airports with scheduled service, or places youve never flown.

Also it may be that you have a/c type burnout. Maybe try some good old desktop flying in a different model, such as a turbo prop or other GA aircraft.

Best of luck. Regardless, Im willing to be that you can sell you setup and get a bit out of it if need be.

[David Rogers]

Thanks guys - good, contrasting views. (I'm sure there is no 'right' answer on this one, I just wanted to hear from others).

I guess it says something that my first ever post on this forum was "Is there a plug and play FCU for the A320?" ....... !!!!! .... I had seen the wonderful CP Flight MCP for the 737 and was wondering if one existed for the Airbus.

But then again, it is certainly not that I hate my current pit - far from it - it's amazing, I just feel a little as though my heart is not quite there...

It's a good point that you made Eric about trying some different flying in it - I have been doing that to a degree - flying it more like a 737-200, not using autothrottle or the ND map mode for example. But then again you lose the realism.

I think I will do some good old standard desktop flying tonight - that may make me appreciate how lucky I am, and to start appreciating my pit !

[Bob Reed]

Keep in mind. you are talking about the A32x, well those aircraft are much more automated then the 737! That = less hand flying!

[Tomlin]

I can hardly imagine going back to desktop-only simming, but it is fun and how we all got started in the first place. In fact, I am planning on using my GA hangar extensively by way of the instructor's station CRT monitor located aft of the Learjet sim. I find getting away from my main aircraft is a nice break and as you said, helps me realize how nice it is to have a full size instrument panel and gauges in front of me instead of such a small panel on a 19" screen.

Anyhow, best of luck on sorting thru all this!

[sas550]

I can hardly imagine going back to desktop-only simming, but it is fun and how we all got started in the first place.

That's what I do. I have a powerful desktop computer with both fs9/fsx installed. There I can fly different aircrafts from the 737. I also like A32x family. If I was to build from scratch today it would have been an A321.

[andarlite]

Although I have a passion for the 767 (which my cockpit is based on), I also like the Dash 8 and the Cesna float planes (this due to the fact that I grew up in Northern Canada). The Dash 8's were what connected our town with the rest of the world. Although I've never flown in a float plane, there certainly were a large number around where I was growing up so I find it a blast to be able to fly around with them in FS9.

The Level D 767 comes with an SDK and a fellow (Nico Kaan) has provided software that makes it very easy for the home cockpit builder to interface the Level D to IOCards. However, I have chosen not to go this route since it would lock my cockpit into just being able to fly the 767. By using GoFlight radio's and their RP48 as the MCP, along with an Hagstrom KE72 and Leo Bodnar BU0836 cards, I can easily reconfigure the controls for another plane.

I recently spend a frustrating week doing the cutouts on the captain side of my 767 MIP (argggg...those bezels) and I don't even want to think of having to repeat that for the FO side (and I still have the center to do). So what I decided to do is just do the cutout for the LCD sceen for the FO side of the MIP. That means if I want to fly a different plane, I can just separate the guage panel and move it to that screen, hop in the right side and go flying :). And the best part is that despite these compromises my cockpit still looks like the 767-300.

Regards,
Henry

[737NUT]

I went through the same thing myself. This time i'm acting on it though do to many reasons.
I did some research and found that i can build a 727 with REAL parts for less than what a toy 737 pit can be built for. I love the older 737 and 727 aircraft, something about all those gauges moving in harmony. LOL With the 737NG it went like this, program FMC, AP, takeoff, engage AP. Leave and do stuff around house, return 2-3hrs later. Land airplane, repeat above or shut off PC.
Now lately i have been flying the 727, WOW! You have to sit through a flight and fly this plane! I'm having more fun than ever now. Maybe it's because i got my PPL now and i enjoy more habds on flying? Anyways, i am going to build a hybrid 727/737 steam gauge MIP airplane. I have some done my research and testing and now it's on to the saving and buying real parts stage. :)

Either way, do what will make you happy. Even it means starting over and taking a loss on parts!

[David Rogers]

This story has an interesting twist :) .... it's as if god (or whoever is in control ;) ) taught me a lesson tonight.... I was messing around with my 'pit set up (software) and after all the weeks spent configuring Project Magenta and my aircraft files, I suddenly realised I had not checked over some basic FS settings in a long time.

I found myself is FS MENU > AIRCRAFT > REALISM (a setting screen I don't visit often) and realised that my general realism slider was set fully to the left !!! ..... as far away from 'realistic' as it is possible to get !!

I set this to 'Realistic', loaded up my full 737 sim (including PM), took off on a trans-continental African flight from Dar Es Salamm and BOY did I have a grin on my face!!! My sim is flying like a dream!! that 'feel' that I just could not get into my sim is HERE and it is flying wonderfully!! It really is a big lesson for me.

I've tweaked aircraft.cfg's until the cows come home, I've set PM paramaters until my fingers bled ..... and all along it was a simple slider in FS.

For all this doesn't change the fact that the 737NG is not my favourite aircraft, this really has sparked a fire tonight. When my sim was not set up correctly, I found myself sticking the A/P in as soon as possible (so as not to highlight to poor flight dynamics), however this evening, I hand flew the entire SID from HTDA and up to FL240 before I felt inclined to hit CMD A. :)

I'm so pleased with this - everything about my pit (with the exception of the PM CDU, which continues to be a big pain) is running fantastically now and, as I write, in the cruise phase of my flight tonight, I have that wonderful excitement for the approach and landing (as I know she is going to handle like a treat on approach).

I am going to take the advice of the people who have pointed out that just because we have wonderful 'pits, that doesn't mean we can't also enjoy the variety of desktop simming, with all the great add-ons.

(oh but if I do win the lottery this week, I am going to build 2 more 'pits, a 727 and a A320 !! :) )

[737NUT]

Good news! Nice to hand fly isn't it!?


If i hit the lottery, i'm getting a real sim from the airliners! :))

[Kennair]

David,

I go through this every other month, and after seeing and flying Gwyn's (Westozy) 737 I was almost tempted to go down that path, but I stuck to my guns with my PC12. Not the biggest or most glorious like the airliner series but it holds a special place for me in the real world, and not too long ago they announced their Next Gen series and my enthusiasm was renewed (although I haven't started the new build yet). So yes it is surprising what can come from a little healthy re-assessing.

However having invested so much in the 737 I'd stick with that.

Ken.

If I hit the lottery, I'm getting a real PC12! :lol:

[PaulEMB]

David,

As with Ken, I go through this line of thought frequently - my ERJ 145 is 100% full scale, so its hard to imagine it as being something else - despite its 737 PM logics.

I also went to a different airport (in my case Zaragoza - I like the view out of the coffee shop onto the apron :D), No ILS etc, and hand flew to Bilbao - this was a bit caused because I have a wiring fault between the I/O card and the A/P hardware, but I really enjoyed it!
I also whacked the weather into a full thunderstorm to make it more interesting, and get a kick out of the sub woofers under my seat.

Keep at it - after all, its all pretend really!

[BlackWidow]

David lol this is a great post I feel exactly the same way I have changed my mind so many times and even now as i build a CRJ sim I think " Am I makeing the right choice, is this the sim I really want " Fortunatly I have not invested so much money in the CRJ that i would feel too bad about changeing my mind. My biggest worry is that it will be another year gone and I will still have nothing that resembles a sim.

[Tomlin]

David, sorry if your original intent has been lost, but this thread is quickly turning into more of a 'Therepy' thread than 'crisis'!

In response, I want to take everyone back to the desktop- it's really an amazing sim all in itself. You get virtually an unlimited number of aircraft to choose from and then throw in a butt kicker, Track IR, and a decent sized monitor and you are good to go. I ALMOST sold my Track IR 4 to have extra $$$ for the sim, but then I realized that would be a bad decision. I LOVE the Flight 1 C172, especially flying around dusk at the Flight Scenery Rhode Island package. Using Track IR really makes it much more realistic, and the same with the Dream Fleet Baron 58. This is what I will go back to when flying the Learjet high and fast is not the mood Im in.

Also, Black Widow- You may be closer to having a sim than you realize. This was what happend to me back in the late Spring. Take inventory of what you have. Obviously, if you have a PC to run FS on and the PMRJ software, then make a temporary instrument panel out of some thin Luan or something else. Cut out the bezel areas, and buy a 2nd monitor to run off your PMRJ pc so at least you have a full display. Mount a CH yoke on a piece of pipe and save up for some interfacing and go to radio shack and buy some switches. It's amazing how much you can do for very little just like this. Some how, doing just this, Ive got a really nice looking Learjet sim on the way. No, my panels havent been made by great producers like Joe or Pete or Engravity (yet!) but they will be one day. For now, what I have will work great till the panels are available. (In fact you guys are going to be amazed when you see the updates on my project).

What Im saying is, find common materials from your local hardware store and build something.

For David R., all I can say is that the NG is a great aircraft, but if you dont like it, fly it till you find a buyer for it and sell the entire thing in one piece if possible.

Then start on your next project while ducking the flying glass from your wife!

[Westozy]

NG = Nothing Greater.

Or as the missus says......Nerd Gatherer!

Gwyn

[Toly]

I LOVE the Flight 1 C172, especially flying around dusk at the Flight Scenery Rhode Island package. Using Track IR really makes it much more realistic, and the same with the Dream Fleet Baron 58. This is what I will go back to when flying the Learjet high and fast is not the mood Im in.

Golden words. I do exactly the same. The combination of DreamFleet Baron, TrackIR, Rhode Island and a huge screen is very addictive, and in a way, seducing. Everything fits just right, blending together in perfect harmony, to provide that amazing feeling of flight that rarely comes across in a 'desktop' sim. Few other choice components such as CaptainSim a/c, Aeroworx King Air and some very select sceneries can convey the same feeling and sensation of flight.... a rare blend indeed. Capturing this blend and carrying it on forward is probably one of the main arts of 'real' sim building.

[Michael Carter]

When I started to build mine, there were no second thoughts about which aircraft to model. I was going to build a 727 come **** or high water, and be damned at what anyone else though or said about the impossibilities, stumbling blocks, and support. It was the 727 or nothing.

If I had changed my mind based on opinions of others I would have never been happy with another aircraft.

Building the aircraft you want to model can be done if you want it badly enough. ;)

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h146/boeing722/EDDF6.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h146/boeing722/727atLOWW3.jpg

[David Rogers]

Aww - I was just starting to feel so much better until Mike had to post a shot of his pit :) .... (there's something magical about a real panel).

Joking apart, thanks for all the views and anecdotes. In a certain way, the original sentiment that I felt at the beginning of the thread has already gone, as I now have the NG flying and performing fantasticaly (apart from the PM CDU). So my enthusiasm is refreshed and people are right - it is an awesome aircraft!

Part of my view on this links to real world experiences - I fly (with work) a couple of times per month and have done for 7 years now. For 4 of those years, I flew a BA 737-300 once a week and would often crave for the experience of something different (even just as a passenger). While parked at the stand at Newcastle on a morning, awaiting pushback, our plane would be parrallel next to another BA aircraft - an A320 that operated on the Newcastle-Heathrow route and I'd wish they'd swap 'em over just for a change one day.

For the last 3 years, I fly approx once per 2 weeks, on the easyJet Newcastle-Bristol, which is operated with a 737-700..... so in real life, all I have known is the 737 !

I have flown on a A32X only once - when travelling up from Heathrow, following a long-hauler from India...... So for me, it's a case of the grass being a little greener on the other side... I am very familiar with the 737 in last and new generation guises, whereas the A32X holds more enigma to me. Even on my holidays/vacations, it's always either a 757 (if staying in Europe), or a 747 (long haul).

So I guess I have suffered a little 'Boeing over-exposure' to date, and hence my greater interest in the 'buses.

However, the sim is going to stay (for the short to mid term at least), and I am going to rig up a desktop set-up to fly the Airbuses, Vintages, and GA, (and lets not forget the LDS767 and PMDG747) when variation is called for. I too have Track IR and a nice 20.1" TFT on my desktop, and agree it does make for a fab sim in itself!

[aviaparts]

Well I have been there too, at the end I was only flying circuits in gusty conditions with my 737NG. No autopilot and I even skipped the full startup ...
I took the step an sold the whole thing, I am now working on a piper twin, analog gauges and hands on from start till landing.
They just will have to be more patient with me at Vatsim, won't be moving so fast ;-)

[PaulEMB]

Eric,

I guess you hit the nail in the right place :p

You should start a MSFS Therapy thread - and find a way of charging for it!

I would imagine that most of us who have reached this stage probably need therapy of some sort!

[Bob Reed]

Eric,

I guess you hit the nail in the right place :p

You should start a MSFS Therapy thread - and find a way of charging for it!

I would imagine that most of us who have reached this stage probably need therapy of some sort!

I hate to tell you this Paul.... But no amount of therapy is going to help what most of us have!! Too bad too.....:p

[Tomlin]

Ha! Bob, I think you may be right. The 'therepy' is there to help us COPE, not CURE!

[BlackWidow]

NG = Nothing Greater.

Or as the missus says......Nerd Gatherer!

Gwyn

LOL my wife says the exact thing and she calls my simulator a "STIMULATOR" lol sorry a little off topic i just couldnt help but laugh