Ultralight, Hanglider, Trike, Paraplane, Motion Sims

[PilotoX]

Anyone know where I can purchase one or maybe where to get parts to build one? I have searched the internet but have not found many motion sims that mimics these particular types of aircraft.

I don't want the big box motion platforms supported by actuators, motors, that typically mimic fully enclosed aircraft. I want something with a lot more freedom that can give me the illusion I am flying like a bird, I want to feel the wind! so maybe I can rig a fan in front or my monitor, but I also want the motion.

Thanks.

[PilotoX]

Does anyone here discriminate against hangliders or open cockpit motion sims?

[QF6228]

It sounds like a great idea to me, i'm just not to sure if many people have actually thought of building one.

Damien

[BlackWidow]

maybe nobody knows where you can purchase one but im sure you could build one. i just did a google search and found this http://rotomotos.com/hangsim.aspx i did not look very long but have you done a search for this type of sim?

there is alot of stuff on this in google i even found video's of full scale hanglider sims on youtube

[magicaldr]

You got to try Soarin in Disney, it was great. I suggest you have a nose on ebay, there are often pods going past. I have even considered one myself, but they are out of my price range.

My biggest turn off for this sort of sim (which I think is a great idea BTW) is how you would sort the external visuals. If you do a suspended hang glider I can see that being rather hard, as you would need the screens below. Although a pod trike sim could be interesting with a 3 projector setup and as much surround as you could get.

Thinking and typing another idea that would work would be to try the VR goggles that are out there, now that with you hung from a custom gantry could get pretty real I would expect.

Wish you luck with it, do post how you get on :)

[PilotoX]

Actually, I rode Disney's Soarin a few times , when I went with my family to Cal, I loved the feel of that ride so much that it's probably the reason why I wanted a simple open cockpit motion platform, exactly the feel I'm looking for, but in a personal motion sim.

I've also spent a great deal of time searching the internet and have not come across what I want, so I designed one and have finally built it. It works on the control principles of a typical trike, but it can be easily converted to work as regular plane, like a cessna or piper or even a helicopter.

I recently tested my mechanical design, in front of an 8ft x4ft projection screen with MS FS X running in cockpit view mode, but without the cockpit visuals, feels promissing. With motion software qued from FS X and running multi-axial motion control servos should be a blast!.

[wannabeaflyer]

Hi Pilot X went to a a flight sim exhibition last year at Birmingham NEC and there was also an Leisure Pilot show on at the same time, i saw just the thing you are looking at there and will post the pictures when i can find them. think the work was done by a Polytechnic and looked easy to implement given the space . Basically a Paraglider harness rigged up with Feed back Pots which were linked to FS2004 i believe using VR glasses, took some close ups so maybe threre is something there you could use :-)

[wannabeaflyer]

Try this link http://www.northern-paragliding.com/northern-news/paragliding-vr-simulator-is-born-2.html

[PilotoX]

Thanks for the links guys, wannnabeaflyer, interesting link, I have to smile :D, because just before I built my motion sim, I was looking at baby swings, :p and your link for the paraglider sim is basically a scaled up baby swing,;) see pics. My motion sim is same idea, which I believe is the result of more logical, as opposed to creative thinking, the thing is that without having a 2" OD pipe bender, to build a neat A/L shape clean structure, like the baby swing, I had to resort to a structure built from Electrical C Channel, and related hardware, which turned out more like a structure built from a large erector set, but same idea.

Now that I am looking to motorize it, I plan on using 12 to 24V DC servo motors.

I am an 185 Lb man but with the additional seat and hardware suspended, it is close to 225 lbs that needs to be moved with a high degree of safety. So I have implemented a series of springs and pulleys with addition safety mechanisms in case a spring or pulley should fail from extreme maneuvers, and to minimize the load on the control servos. My structure is pretty solid so no worry there;).

In essence, the servos will only see a torque of 25-30 lbs each, at the most, this is dynamic weight, in order to effect control imputs with a good degree of accuracy. This means that the servos do not need to be bulky.

Something that has pushed me away from the more commercially available servo systems, which are are driven by AC motors, is the bulk and cost of such.

Another thing is the FS to motion control software and the electronics required to translate such to the servos, is still expensive, so I am experimenting with an interesting option, that if it works, it might offer a very cost effective setup for personal motion sims. At the very least it will allow me and my son to have some fun with.

[wannabeaflyer]

Hi Pilot X Glad you found the link still trying to figure out where i buried the exhibition phots but they will surface soon ;-) when you say your going to do motion sim with a hang glider...head scratching time but i thought as you would be suspended by a cnetral point a la real hang glider most of the physical movement input would come from the pilot pushing,pulling or weight shifting left and right so you biggest motion effect would come from your veiw of the vr world ie FSX without the instrument panels visable and maybe something like Track ir or Those VR glasses Which nowadayw dont sem to cost an arm or a leg LOL:-) just a general question the guys here know im always fishing for ways to skin a cat and apply differnt ideas to my own motion platform project. A few of us are using simmconnect and Visual basic ,Visual C# and othe languages to achieve decent feedback control of our actuators so maybe theres something here you can use , and best of all the systems proposed are easily within joe publics bank balances :-) ..

[PilotoX]

Wannabeaflyer,

The motion control on my setup, does mostly come from the pilot's weigh shift, but, as it stands, it is assisted by position potentiometers that feedback DC voltage to control motors, which in turn assist in the tilting of the would be wing, in this case the shifting of the pilot and harness weight, in reference to the central hang point. This gives the pilot the sensation of a certain amount of resistance on the control bar or stick, but not where the pilot is having to weight shift his total weight. In a real aircraft you do feel the resistance to control surface to some degree, the wing creating lift is reducing the amount of resistance one has to control in order to effect steering, the closer this action and feel is mimic'ed in a sim, the more realistic the end thrill is. Tie all this with some type of motion cueing control either mechanical, or via other means to the game or FS program and you can have the full effect.

The simplest form of motion cueing is an actual joystick connected to the PC where the FS is running and physically rigged to move with the pilot's position.

A more eleaborate, but not difficult, setup would be to use the potentiometers directly to the PC's game port, like many are doing by hacking standar joysticks to be used in more customized flight yokes and similar.

In a hanglider, the pilot is actually the joystick or part of it, this action control the visual position of your ,would be aircraft, in reference to horizon landscape, in your monitor or projection screen. But as I understand it, most people are using the FS aircraft position software cues to control the position of their motion platforms, using external convertion programs, perhaps these programs are analagous to what a post processor program does in a CNC environment? A program that outputs XYZ positional data to an XYZ controller box that drives XYZ motors or actuators?

OK I am talking purely by logic here, but maybe if I am missing something, someone can correct me?

I would like to understand more about the programs you mention to control feedback. When you say decent, what do you mean by this? do you mean the resolution and precision of the actual motion you would get? from actuating the motion platform via software control?

[wannabeaflyer]

Hiya back again :-) the programming that im talking about and im a novice by any standard is simmconnect which is supplied with FSX and VB6 or VB Express as just a couple of interface programming options. to give credit where its due, Jim is doing some great work in this area , i am plodding along as i have already built my working Mk1 P2DOF motion platform but changed direction regarding control and software when jim showed how realativly inexpensive it could be to go down the route he has taken for his sim .. Electronic interface modules are off the shelf items and solid not what you could call expensive ( realative i know but Great bang for bucks Modules ) and they offer a number of options regarding sensors inputs and outputs ... check out Ian at Built for fun and Roland As well as Jim and Craig for a serious wealth of great info and betwwen that crew you should find what your looking for ...By the way someone else mentioned the Possibility of using the PWM output from one of the control cards to drive a fan blowing air at simulated airspeed directly at the pilot which in your case would definetly enhance your simulation experience,, all of these options are possible with the Method used by jim so jump in and bounce all your ideas around ... take the best elements apply them to your creation and help out the next newbie these guys mentioned above i think i can say really dont mind so long as commercial gain is not on the agenda as its the exchange of ideas that drive this hobby along :-) ..

[PilotoX]

Thanks Wannabeaflyer,

I've seen some of the links you mentioned, but I have yet to look at them more in detail. I think Jim is the guy in Australia and the other guy Roland is from Germany? I looked briefly at their sites, they look interesting.

I thought I share a pic of what I am after. Maybe later on, I will show a pic of my actual sim.

This is what I am after, I don't want to build the electronics from scratch if possible, this takes too much of my time, so I am looking for a nice cost effective servo control package that requires minimal work.

My idea is to use the same type of control used on this RC model from MIA Micro-FLIGHT of Arizona but on my motion sim. This means very little mechanics which I've already inplemented, car electric window type motors, they are stronger than windshield wiper motors, but also cost a little more, but I still need a nice controller and software to do so. This RC model uses mixing on 2 channels in an elevon configuration. What makes this great is the fact that it is not as elaborate as a typical plane or helicopter. Eventually I will want an airplane and helicopter setup also, but right now I am very happy with my hanglider type sim.

[PilotoX]

I'm wondering if anyone else has or is building a personal motion platform similar to what I described. :smile:

I got hold of some very nice wheelchair motors that run on 12 to 24V DC and have been redesigning the mechanical control of my motion platform. As far as the controller for these motors, I am hacking RC servos and building High Power H-Bridges, to drive them as standard servos, directly from an R/C Transmitter, which is linked via USB as an FS X controller, as well, so there is no need for external software or interface micro-processor, DAC or similar. :D:p;)

This way I can easily test/tweak my motion platform, can either use 2 servos with mixing, as I described earlier, or even 3 servos (CCPM R/C Heli Mode). Both configurations 2 or 3 servos provide me with Heave, via mixing. The 2 servo configuration is excellent for projects like a Hanglider, the 3 servo configuration is excellent for a Heli or Airplane motion platform. When I move the R/C transmitter sticks I can control both my motion platform and also the aircraft in the game. When I throttle up for Heli mode, this gets mixed with collective which gives the motion platform the sense of lift off, the feeling is very satisfying, and in front of a big screen, you forget that you are on a a very simple home built motion platform. What do you guys think? Cool? :)

My Realated Topics:

* Making a Simple Multi-function 3 DOF Motion Platform
* Hacking a basic RC Servo to control a 200 watt DC Motor
* Hacking a Radio Control Transmitter to provide Control interface between a Motion Platform and a PC running
FSX or any game software. Use the R/C Transmitter sticks to control both, the Motion Platform, as well as the aircraft position within the game. An alternative to having to build a microprocessor based interface between the game and motion platform.