Yet another cheap and easy to build motion platform!

[louisgr]

Hello everyone,

I'm new here (I just joined last week). When I introduced myself to the forum I mentioned that I've built a motion platform. AndyT reply to my post immediately and requested that I post pictures, diagrams, etc. Well here it is. I don't pretend to know all the answer far from it. Actually, it's my first time doing this and I'm sure some of you guys are much better at this than me. Just before I begin I want to say that I took many great ideas from Jim at http://www.jimspage.co.nz/intro.htm and from Roland van Roy at http://www.simprojects.nl/. I'm sure you have visited these sites already. They are simply superb sites that give lots of information about building motion platforms.

Ok the specs are: (refer to the pictures)

- 2 axis platform.
- The top of the platform is 4 feet on the roll axis by 6 feet on the pitch axis. I figure I will have enough space for 2 passengers (One can dream no ?). The bottom part of the platform is 5 feet on the pitch axis by 3 feet on the roll axis.
- I needed a platform that could move around about 500 pounds.
- I use 2 Ford Crown Victoria 1997/1998 wiper motors. One for each axis. They cost about 50 Canadian dollars each if you buy them used.
- I used a pulley system. The more pulleys you use the less torque it creates on the motor shaft. The drawback of this is of course a slower movement.
- I use a high quality ansi standard #25 (1/4 inch between the links) chain and 2 sprockets (one for each motor) of 23 teeth. I needed about 25 feet of chain. The cost was about 100 dollars for the 2 sprockets and the chain.
- I use a modified car driving shaft in the middle of the platform (Thanks Jim for this one!) as a support. The universal joint moves about 35 degrees on both axis so that's more than enough. The driving shaft was cut and welded between 2 steel plates of 1 foot by 1 foot. I did not do this myself. I went to a welding shop and they charge me 50 dollars.
- The platform is made of wood.
- The power supplies for the motors are: One 24 volts 10 Amps and one 500 watts ATX computer power supply for supplying 12 volts. More on this below.
- It had to be cheap and easy to build (It cost me about 350 Canadian dollars and it was really easy to build. Trust me, if I can do this anybody can.

Some notes about the platform (again, refer to the pictures):

- I made sure that the chain for the pitch axis is exactly in the middle, perpendicular to the roll axis. The same goes for the roll chain. This is important because when you roll and pitch at the same time you want to keep the chain on the sprocket and in the pulleys! Since the driving shaft was right in the middle, thus blocking the passage of the chain, I had 2 choices. Make a hole in the middle of the shaft to pass the chains through or raise the driving shaft and pass the chains under it. I chose to raise the shaft.

- The pulleys are wide enough for the chain and they have a nice ridge so the chain does not come off. The pulleys and motors are held in position by metal corners (buy strong ones especially for the ones holding the motor as it generate a lot of torque). The pulleys are able to rotate on their own axis thus minimizing the friction of the chain against the pulleys. You can buy all this at any hardware store.

- The motors have 2 speeds (slow and fast) and they are usually ran at 12 volts (voltage of a battery in a car). I choose to run the motors at 24 Volts for fast speed and 12 volts for the slower speed. I need the slow speed for the wash out algorithm. Why 24 volts ? Well, they have a lot more torque and they turn faster. I know I'm probably running them over spec but I can't seem to kill these guys. They are just very tough. I've been doing a lot of stress tests and they are still in great shape. Besides, they are not that expensive anyway if I need to replace one.

- During my load tests I would put some weight say in the front until the motor could not lift the platform anymore. It's normal and I suggest you don't fight this unless you have a lot of money to spend on more powerful motors or you want to get into hydraulics). The key is to use the physics to your advantage. When I'll build my enclosure and I'll put panels and screens, etc. I will take great care at making sure that the weight of the front is equal (well as much as I can) to the weight in the back taking passengers into consideration. The same applies for left and right. If you balance everything properly, it will take very little effort to lift the platform. That being said, I will obviously not construct the enclosure with 2x4! I will keep the weight to a minimum.

- The platform can move about 15 degrees on both axis. It's more than enough as I'm building this for an airliner not a F-16! A note on this. When I started this project, I was tempted to build the platform so it could move say 30 degrees on both axis. I realized quickly that it's much more complex to build and when I finally hooked that platform to MS flight sim I noticed that 8 degrees is of movement is plenty. You will be tempted to do the same but please resist. You simply don't need that amount of movement. What we are interested in is the "start" of motion in a direction not the total amount of degrees the platform can move.

- One last thing. Be patient. I've built and rebuilt and rebuilt.... many times before I got it right. It's just the nature of this hobby. When I thought I got it right, I would perform some load tests (I would put lots of weight on the platform) and I'd realized that a pulley was misplaced or something else was wrong. Whatever it was, I would take it apart and fix it. It took me about 80 hours to build this. One very last thing. Don't be a hero. If you cannot do something than pay somebody to do it. You will save a lot of time. In my case I did not know how to weld and I did not want to know either! So I paid 50 dollars to a guy to cut and weld the driving shaft to the steel plates.

I hope that this example will help you with your project.

cheers

Louis

[AndyT]

Louis,

Very nice. Thanks for the pictures.

How much weight have you placed on the weld on the driveshaft? I'm wondering how strong it is. It looks like it was spot welded and not a complete seam weld.

I never heard of driving the wiper motors at 24v. That makes them more versatile but might burn them out faster. I'm not sure on that.

I like how you have everything nice and neat under the platform. Will you be putting a skirt around it to keep it clean and keep pets and children out? Safety issues are very important when building motion platforms.

If you had raised the platform a few inches higher by making the driveshaft longer, you would have added more degrees of movement without adding complexity, but since you are building an airliner, this should be no problem.

The only thing I don't like about the U-joint on a drive shaft is that it has a sine-wave shaped motion because of the way its built. Have you taken that into account? I suspect it will not be a factor for you since you are only having a few degrees of motion.

It is looking really good! Do you have any videos of it moving? That would be really good to see. I keep wondering why the guys on here with these really nice boeing and airbus pits don't add motion like this. It would really increase the realisim of their pits. And the weight should not be a factor if it is built and balanced correctly.

Where did you get the software to run the motors? Did you write your own? Would you like to share it with us if you did?

Great job so far! Keep us informed.

[louisgr]

Hi AndyT,

I've put 300 pounds+ on the shaft. It is not spot welded. There is a pipe inside that is welded to the plates. You just cannot see it on the pictures unfortunately. You only see the cover.

Sine wave ? Hmm, I'm not so sure I'm following you. Can you elaborate on this ?

As for the motors running at 24V, I agree with you that I might burn them faster but IMO the extra torque is well worth it.

Putting a skirt around the platform is a very good idea. Thanks! No pets but I have curious children...;)

Yes I did develop the software myself and Yes I will share it for sure. I'm just working on it right now. The platform went "wild" while I was taxing with FSX last night!! So it needs some more work for sure.

I added a very small video of the platform moving at slow speed. Because of upload limits I could not upload a longer one. Rename the file to .mov as I could only upload big files with the pdf extension. It should give you an idea anyway. I drive the platform with the control software I made. I included a screen shot (done with my digital camera).

cheers

Louis

[RobiD]

Hi Louis

Great work. What interface board and motor controllers did you use.

Any more info you can give us is greatly appreciated.

David

[AndyT]

Maybe later I will have time to sketch a picture, but in the meantime, get a universal for a socket wrench and slowly turn it to its fullest flex. Now slowly spin it keeping it in its fullest flexed position and you will see that everytime it comes to the 'ears' of the joint it moves away from being flexed by a few degrees.

Good for having the pipe inside to add strength to the weld.

You can upload videos for free to YouTube and provide a link here. That way you can post a decent size video that shows all directions of movement.

Can you give information on your software? I'm guessing you are using Simconnect? Or are you using FSUIPC? What do your washout algorythms look like? How have you calculated the actual angle of flight to the platform angle? 1:1 ratio or 2:1 or some other ratio...?

[wannabeaflyer]

Hi Louis really nice work you have done there , always great to see another option on the motion platform front :-) one of the lessons i learnt along the way was Over-engineer everything to start with and then trim back, cos when you have over 300 lbs moving around ( and you'll be supprised how l little that is when you start to add bits ) the transmission and motor couplings take a pounding especially at extremes of travel ( moving there is easy getting back 0000:-) major strain) i also built my base out of wood and so far so good she seems to be able to cope without too much Flexing . yo may wanna have a look at the back driving effect when the platform is loaded , i have my motors driving through steering racks and Steering boxes ( a Bit of Jim and a bit of Craigs Concepts ) and i still find that there are situations where the wiper motors can get back driven .. Not taking anything away from you work cos what you have doen is ggod stuff just passing on some of the things i have picked up on in my attempts . Keep at it you are now well and trully Gonna be hooked and this is the best place for a fix ( if you dont Mind the pun LOL:-) )

[louisgr]

Wannabeaflyer, what are the specific situations where the motors are back driven ?

RobiD, I did my own control hardware. I use the parallel port of a PC to output 8 bits (up, dn, left, right, slow and fast). This goes into a NOOP buffer 74LS244 as a security measure (I don't want to blow my parallel port!). The output of the buffer go to 8 5/12 Volts relays that control 8 12/30 Volts relays. I need the stronger relays cause there is quite a bit of current drawn by the motor. Instead of the 5Volts relays, I could have used switch transistors with pull-up resistors but I already had these relays so I used them. It adds to the propagation time of the signal though. I've included a picture of the circuit. Yes I know it's messy and Yes it's on a breadboard. I appologize to the hardcore electronics guys here;). As you can see on the picture, there is a part of the circuit that is not used. At the time, I thought I would get the feedback (pitch and roll angles) from the platform through the parallel port as well but I decided to go with a 2 axes phidget accelerometer. It is a USB device ultra easy to use.

AndyT, yes I'm using SimConnect. I'm planning to do a netpipe interface as well as I don't have the PC to run FSX properly. This way I'll have both an interface to FS 2004 and FSX without having to change the software doing the cues itself. Basically, the flow goes like this. I made a C++ SimConnect application that broadcast a few parameters (pitch, roll, speed, onground, etc.) on my IP network every 100 ms using UDP. Then I have a Java application running on a PC (the one that has the parallel port to the motor circuit) that picks-up the UDP packets then activate the proper relay(s) via the paralle port. The key is is the "activate" obviously. That's where all kind of magic needs to take place. I'm really not satisfied with the way I coded the ground cues. I need to rework the whole thing. I don't use a ratio angle (from sim to platform). Actually, I'm more interested in the angle derivative (radian/sec) rather than angle displacement although I find this an interesting concept. Did you coded your cues using this technique ? can you elaborate ?

cheers
Louis

[wannabeaflyer]

Hi Louis with my platform mechanical setup i found when there was no power applied to the motors and with the weight of the platform seats .screens etc that i could in fact ( with a lot of effort) move the platform to a new position , i guess what im saying is that with the method of control that i was/am using at the moment ( Double pole Change over relays ect) that if the motor is not powered and the platform was say near the max of travel it could be backdriven to the limitswitches inadvertantly .. Have to say that since using a 24V power supply to drive the motors the recovery is a lot quicker so i dont notice it as much :-) Like i said its not a critisism of what you have done its a piece of advice that was passed onto me and turned out to be a small factor ..How are you getting on with your C# Programming ?

[louisgr]

Thanks for the info wannabeaflyer. Since I don't have the enclosure yet (with screens, seats, etc.) I obviously don't see this problem. I'm wondering if I could put some springs to help the platform recover from one side to help this situation. I remember Jim did this on his platform though I can't recall if it was to fix this specific situation.

I unfortunately don't know C#. I use both C++ and Java for this project.

thanks again

Louis

[wannabeaflyer]

Hi Louis Some guys have used springs and Bungees to assist in the return to center operation and to take the load off the motor a little bit , as we have all found out its always trial and error ,because we Build with DIY limited facilites :-) but the good news is once you see any of your creations in motion sorry to say there's no Going back LOL:-) i have had to start to learn C# for my attempts at programming but talk about headache ;-) hoping and promising to post my code as soon as it's out of my brain . Hang in there its all good stuff from this forum

[ak49er]

All this easy DIY has got me thinking of bigger and better. Has anyone considered using an industrial pallet positioner for a good strong motion base, It already has load bearing capabilties, yaw and lift, with two more pivots one could have pitch and roll, surge would be limited but daoble. $.02

[RobiD]

What is an industrial pallet positioner?

[ak49er]

Basically it is a heavy lift frame about 60x60x60", with different load ratings 250-4000#, it has a scissor style lift rack to a pivoting top "base" , so lift and yaw are prebuilt, also it is load neautral so as you "stack boxes on a pallet the stacking height remains the same as the positioner "drops" down. A person could (for 895-3000 USD) add lift cylinders, gear motors, and the such or place a motion base similar to the one described ealrier in this post and have a 4DOF base. Lift, yaw, pitch, roll.Of course this would be overkill for many but might be right for a heavy, enclosed type pit. Not in my realm but an alternate solution for some. I was daydreaming while ordering parts out of the Grainger catalouge.

[AndyT]

Sorry to take so long to answer, I've been busy with the real world lately.

My platform is designed to give me 45 degrees of motion in 2 DOF. That means I get 90 degrees total on pitch and roll. Using the Mercotac slipring I also get unlimited Yaw. Because of this I do not have washouts planned so far.

Since I get 45 degrees, I look at what I'm likely to do in the sim. Since I fly mostly GA planes, I will likely never exceed a 90 degree turn unless I plan on doing some aerobatics. My platform will do half of that so I make each 1 degree on the platform equal 2 degrees in the sim. When my plane is at a 60 degree turn in the sim, the platform is at 30 deg. I don't want to do a washout because I want the sim to hold that 30 degrees as I spin on the unlimited Yaw. This will simulate the centrifical force you feel when in a real plane doing this kind of manuver. When you level out, the platform will level out as well. The only time I need a changeable washout is when I'm doing aerobatics. How do I make it change over to the other side of the platform without flipping me over?

[Jim NZ]

Hi Louis, Just back from Aussie outback (Now I know where flies, dust and heat come from) and caught up with your post.
Brilliant concept and I particulary like the cunning way you have "looped" the chain a couple of times to get the torque and speed right .. It took me a while to work it all out and its real cunning !!! It would keep the profile of the whole thing down as well.
Fully agree with you about the smaller angles required for an enclosed cockpit ,, I found that out real quick when I built mine, but I got to admit, people building "open" cockpits would need more as its a different sensation they are going for.

Welcome to the madhouse Louis .... There are heaps of nuts like us in here !!! :) :)
You will know by now, you are on a mission that will truly never be finished ,, always improving !!! I'm building the MK2 platform at the moment but already the MK3 is in my head !!!
Keep us informed with progress.

Jim NZ

[wannabeaflyer]

Hi Jim Glad to see you survived your days in the wilderness LOL:-) just an update for you all ...After serious head bashing major frustration and down right cant get to grips with it ( C'#) i opted to use VB6 based on the sample codes you made available and boy what a difference that made , Basically i was able to write code Change code Try code and see results ( now thats more like it ) Thanks to your lead i am now able to Pull Data from FSX into my Program and Configure strings to send to My KT5198 Controller Card . Had a Weird moment where one PC would allow me to Connect to and communicate with my K8055 USB card But Came up With Error message about needing a License for Comms ( Head scratcher ) and on the other PC Comms Was ok But Usb Error with the K8055 card ( Go Figure ??? ) anyway at the moment i am developing my code on 2 Pc so's i can try & test things as i go along But have to say once again and will shout it "THANKS FOR THE JUMP START JIM" some day i'll get another light bulb moment and the C# stuff will fall into place but for now im just majorly happy that i can move things along agin because Using VB6 allows me to experiment real time :-) Cheers jim and all the rest of the crew for making their code available .. Will post my initial 1st attempts on the FTP site sometime next week when i tidy things up ( Happy days again)

[louisgr]

Jim, although I'm not trying to compete with Australia in terms of flies and dust, I officially invite you in Canada especially in June for a week-end camping. You will discover the real Canadian air force... and it's not our F-18s:)

Now to more serious things... I find that the slow speed of the motors is still way to fast. My point is that I'm afraid I will feel the platform moving when the washout algorithm kicks in. Now my question to you guys is should I try to fix that now or will the weight of the enclosure (and screens, etc) alleviate this problem. I thought of running the motor at a lower voltage say 8 Volts to fix this.

thanks

Louis

[Spatate]

Hey hey... i should be there... Je devrais y être !!! :-)

[Jim NZ]

Hi Louis,
Pondered this for a couple of days and havent really came up with anything that may help you, there are just so many variables.

Because you will (??) be introducing electronic speed control, its better to be too fast in its present state than at the right speed.

At the end of the day, when you introduce speed control (PWM ???) you hopefully will be able to adjust it to suit.
Dont panic at this stage ,, The platform I am building at the moment, with no cabin or anything on it, was quite "snappy" in test's using 12 volts.
I have now got the cabin etc all built, monitiors etc all in, and I am currently using 20 volts DC thru a KT5198 board and it works lovely.

Just one hint though ,,, you wont be able to have any "null" period of moving when it changes from one direction to the other.You need to have no slack in the chain or when you introduce softstart/softstop, the sensation you are hoping for will be lost. Just a thought ??

Sorry I'm not much help there Louis but keep going on your great work.

Calvin ,,, Pleased that you got the VB6 stuff to work ,, With all the downloads of the source code, your comments have been the only feedback I've had, so its nice to know that it actually works on some-one elses setup. I'm testing the main software at the moment and all seems well except for a couple of wee glitch's. I'm updating my website soon with all this, so keep an eye out on that.


OK .. see ya's .... Jim

[wannabeaflyer]

Hi Jim have to say the difference it makes to be finally have some code that i can work with, really gets the adrenalin flowing again. just seen the latest info on your website, and its brilliant in its simplicity as always with your stuff ( you kinda make things doable :-)) loved your version of the feedback pot arrangment, I have something drawn up on autocad inventor that i thoght was the bee's kness's but that was based on rotary Pot's the fact you used Inline sliders with a single tensioning spring was a real nice touch and more to the point easy to replace/ Cost effective option ..
Got my code to read FSX data ( your code really i just rehashed bits so that i could learn how you did it so all credit goes to you) and have been able to read the ADC inpiuts from my K8055 card & the KT5198 card control strings can be configured by the front panel for different speed ranges again using your lead . this was alway gonna be my 1st step ( to get control and read info from the Interface cards ) having doen this im now trying to pull it all togather....
one thing i gotta ask regarding the KT5198 when sending speed , acceleration data etc to the card to set the motor parameters did you end up sending each bit as a separtate command one after the other or was there a way to combine all the data into one command string ...example @aa M1SP 200 M1AI 50 CR LF or did you have to do as i am doing at present send @aa M1SP 100 CR LF Follwed By @aa M1AI 50 CR LF etc etc ... I guess now the real fun starts but as always one axis at a time :-) Cheers Jim, im sure you will get more feedback once the guys realise that VB6 is not a bad way to go when starting out Control systems software/hardware link and have to say lessons learnt from tryiong to get to grip's with C# have shown that transferring over to VB.Net may be a good halfway between VB6 and C# ( but thats the next Jump ) just want to get my baby moving again LOL;-)

[Jim NZ]

Hi Calvin, You have to use single commands as far as I know, I tried "ganging" them together just as you said and I found it wont work.
So far, and after some savage testing, I've had no trouble with sending them one at a time.
Hope that helps.

See you .... Jim

[wannabeaflyer]

Hi Jim i basically Configured the code as a send .. change value ..Send new value type of thing to get the Contoller set up for the right speed etc did i understand you correctly that i could in fact Send a Command ""AA M1SP ??? M1AI ??? cr lf " That would make coding easier . Big Grin tthough having serious fun messing with the code am hoping if i can get the time ( My little ladys not too keen on hours coding LOL;-) ) to get the basics of my Pitch and Roll Calc Routines done ( Again am initially looking at the method you originally used with the Relay setup ,,, just to get some motion ) and will then refine it ... oh by the way again following your lead i have bought a USB to serial Converter cable ( figured my nex FSX pc wont have serial ports installed as standard anymore before long so not a bad pre-emptive strike :-) Thanks for the pointer .

[Jim NZ]

Hi Calvin,
No, you read me wrong,,,
You cant (As far as I know) send .. @aa M1AI 200 M1SP 800 CR LF

You have to send each command seperate, like ....
@aa M1AI 200 CR LF
and then,,,
@aa M1SP 800 CR LF

NOTE: You need to send the AI one first and then the SP one.

See ya ... Jim

[wannabeaflyer]

Hi Jim ( Please no Laughing now )
below was my feeble 1st attempt at multiple command sending for motor control configuation ....like all my code at the moment needs refining and tidying but this is my tryu it snd see phase so know further down the road it will all get rationalised 8)

Private Sub Speed_Selection(sp As Integer)
'sp = 1
'If Opt_A_But_Click(0) = True Then sp = 0

Select Case sp
Case 0:
'Message Syntax = @address( 1_Command( M1SP,M1AI,TIME,SAVE)_Param Value_ CR_LF)
outstr1 = "@0" & Val(KT5198_Addrs_TxtBox.Text) & " M1SP " & Roll_R2C_TextBox.Text
Roll_OutputMsg_TextBox = outstr
outstr1 = outstr1 & vbNewLine
comSend (outstr1)

outstr2 = "@0" & Val(KT5198_Addrs_TxtBox.Text) & " M1AI " & Roll_R2C_Accel_TextBox.Text
Roll_OutputMsg_TextBox = outstr
outstr2 = outstr2 & vbNewLine
comSend (outstr2)

outstr3 = "@0" & Val(KT5198_Addrs_TxtBox.Text) & " TIME " & Roll_R2C_Time_TextBox.Text
Roll_OutputMsg_TextBox = outstr
outstr3 = outstr3 & vbNewLine
comSend (outstr3)


outstr4 = "Addr = @0" & Val(KT5198_Addrs_TxtBox.Text) & " Speed " & Roll_R2C_TextBox & " Aceel " & Roll_R2C_Accel_TextBox & " Ramp Time " & Roll_R2C_Time_TextBox

Roll_OutputMsg_TextBox = outstr4

Case 1:

'Message Syntax = @address( 1_Command( M1SP,M1AI,TIME,SAVE)_Param Value_ CR_LF)
outstr1 = "@0" & Val(KT5198_Addrs_TxtBox.Text) & " M1SP " & Roll_MidSpd_TextBox.Text
Roll_OutputMsg_TextBox = outstr
outstr1 = outstr1 & vbNewLine
comSend (outstr1)

outstr2 = "@0" & Val(KT5198_Addrs_TxtBox.Text) & " M1AI " & Roll_MidSpd_Accel_TextBox.Text
Roll_OutputMsg_TextBox = outstr
outstr2 = outstr2 & vbNewLine
comSend (outstr2)

outstr3 = "@0" & Val(KT5198_Addrs_TxtBox.Text) & " TIME " & Roll_MidSpd_Time_TextBox.Text
Roll_OutputMsg_TextBox = outstr
outstr3 = outstr3 & vbNewLine
comSend (outstr3)


outstr4 = "Addr = @0" & Val(KT5198_Addrs_TxtBox.Text) & " Speed " & Roll_MidSpd_TextBox.Text & " Aceel " & Roll_MidSpd_Accel_TextBox & " Ramp Time " & Roll_MidSpd_Time_TextBox

Roll_OutputMsg_TextBox = outstr4
outstr4 = outstr4 & vbNewLine

Case 2:

'Message Syntax = @address( 1_Command( M1SP,M1AI,TIME,SAVE)_Param Value_ CR_LF)
outstr1 = "@0" & Val(KT5198_Addrs_TxtBox.Text) & " M1SP " & Roll_HighSpd_TextBox.Text
Roll_OutputMsg_TextBox = outstr
outstr1 = outstr1 & vbNewLine
comSend (outstr1)

outstr2 = "@0" & Val(KT5198_Addrs_TxtBox.Text) & " M1AI " & Roll_HighSpd_Accel_TextBox.Text
Roll_OutputMsg_TextBox = outstr
outstr2 = outstr2 & vbNewLine
comSend (outstr2)

outstr3 = "@0" & Val(KT5198_Addrs_TxtBox.Text) & " TIME " & Roll_HighSpd_Time_TextBox.Text
Roll_OutputMsg_TextBox = outstr
outstr3 = outstr3 & vbNewLine
comSend (outstr3)


outstr4 = "Addr = @0" & Val(KT5198_Addrs_TxtBox.Text) & " Speed " & Roll_HighSpd_TextBox & " Aceel " & Roll_HighSpd_Accel_TextBox & " Ramp Time " & Roll_HighSpd_Time_TextBox

Roll_OutputMsg_TextBox = outstr4
outstr4 = outstr4 & vbNewLine




Case -1
'K8055Status_TextBoxlbl.Caption = "Card " + Str(CardAddress) + " not found"

End Select
'If h >= 0 Then Timer1.Enabled = True
End Sub

[Jim NZ]

Hi Calvin,
Yes, you appear to doing not too bad at all :)

Couple of sugestions though...
The Time command ,, This really needs only to be sent at the START of each SESSION so when you load your profile, send it then, rather than with every movement command.

The address of the card ,,, Its unlikely to be of benifit with your first programming effort to have this adjustable,, so to simplify programming ,, just pick on an address and set the card to it. (I used @00)

For instance ,, to send the motor one way I send (The PCL's are just textbox's) ......


out = "@00 M2AI " & PCL(7) & vbNewLine
comSend (out)
out = "@00 M2sp " & PCL(6) & vbNewLine
comSend (out)


And to send it the other way .......

out = "@00 M2AI " & PCL(7) & vbNewLine
comSend (out)
out = "@00 M2sp " & -(PCL(6)) & vbNewLine
comSend (out)

You will note the AI is sent first, followed straight away by the SP.

To finish on a sad note ,,, If I were you Calvin ,, I wouldnt post any more source code ,,, there are a swag of people watching this developement and as such, everyone I know has stepped back from releasing their source code. What we are doing has big commercial posabilitys for some people and they will just prosper on our efforts.
(Freely release the program .. OK ... but not the source code)
As of today,, even I am hovering as to whether I will release my source code or not. (Sad but true ,,, time will tell ,, I like to share)

That being said, If you want more help ,, just e'mail me as I'm only too willing the help. My code is finished and working (just fine tuning going on) so I'm vertually there. Thinking on this ,,, are you close to getting going with the velleman/oceancontrols boards ??? You could make a good beta tester of my software if you are ??? Drop a message at my site (or email) if you are interested.

See ya ... Jim

[RobiD]

To finish on a sad note ,,, If I were you Calvin ,, I wouldnt post any more source code ,,, there are a swag of people watching this developement and as such, everyone I know has stepped back from releasing their source code. What we are doing has big commercial posabilitys for some people and they will just prosper on our efforts.
(Freely release the program .. OK ... but not the source code)
As of today,, even I am hovering as to whether I will release my source code or not. (Sad but true ,,, time will tell ,, I like to share)

That being said, If you want more help ,, just e'mail me as I'm only too willing the help. My code is finished and working (just fine tuning going on) so I'm vertually there. Thinking on this ,,, are you close to getting going with the velleman/oceancontrols boards ??? You could make a good beta tester of my software if you are ??? Drop a message at my site (or email) if you are interested.

See ya ... Jim

You are right Jim, it is a sad indictment on our society when people work co-operatively on a hobby like this and some of the unscrupulous sit back waiting to pickup something they can market as theirs for a profit. I have noticed this on Ebay for the open source flight sim program.

As for me, I am sitting back waiting because I don't know how to program (but am willing to learn as I go) and I have my 2dof cockpit built and the work you guys have all done saves people like me re-inventing the wheel. My interest is purely hobby, so it is sad that people like me (and I know there is a lot) don't always get the benefit of the great work people like you do.

By the way Jim, thank you for all the work and information you have done and given.

David

[Jim NZ]

Hi David,
Woooohhhh !! I am still releasing my program and so is/has everyone else .. In fact I have had big fiddles with the code today and cant wait to get out to the garage tomorrow and see how it goes.

I was talking about the source code ,,, The gobbly gooke that programmers put together to make the program.
All that gobbly gooke gets compiled into a program and that is what you actually get and use. (The program)
Whats actually happened is everyone is keeping their code pretty close to their chest, and I was just warning Calvin of the situation. In a way I dont blame them ,,, it is a **** of a lot of work and to see some-one else grab it and market it as their own really sucks.

To explain a bit more ,,, if the source code isnt available then no-one can change its looks or properties and sell it as their own.
Where as a program, is just that, a program and that is what you get ,,, ie no-one can change its looks or propertys ,, so someone couldnt really "steal" it .. they can use it but not change it.

Thanks for your comments about our efforts ,,, I too am only into this as a hobby and as such am only too willing to pass on any thing I come across or build ,,, after all, the whole community is built on sharing.

David you said ,, ""so it is sad that people like me (and I know there is a lot) don't always get the benefit of the great work people like you do."" well nothing has changed ,,, all the programs are out there or still comming ,,, the only thing that is "touchy" is the release of source code,, and that is of no use to anyone unless they are a programmer. (Fiddling with that goobly gooke)

I dont really want to carry on with the in's and out's of all this ,,, Its a hobby and I like to share ... At the end of the day, I dont care if some-one makes money out of my work but I got to admit,, I am still pondering my next move ... BUT,,, as far as my PROGRAM is concerned then its all go and not far away ,,, And so are the other programs from the other great guys out there that have put a conciderable effort into giving simmers a choice of methods to build AND a choice of software to run everything with.

Hope I've cleared this up.

See ya ... Jim

[wannabeaflyer]

Hi Jim As always ,Very Sound and helpfull advice. i take your point about the source code and will yake that on board. Glad we have guys like you and the other team members out there, i for one grab my inspiration from the concepts and leads you guys give, getting a bit long in the tooth but the old grey matter still loves a challange LOL:-). Just my way of saying thanks again for a valuable assist. y#that code snippet ( learnt that from C# LOL:-) ) was my quick and dirty test sample been reading the VB manual again and will be changing a number of things in light of the info you have given. the timer thing was a throwback to an earlier attempt ( I take no credit for the fact i used Code i copied so that i could start to understand how it works ) so the timer bit was left from the Ve;eman sample code i forgot to take it out in this version . Both my Interface cards have tested out ok but as yet i have not put them into any sort of housing. i like the idea of how your cards are set-up and i had done something like that on my other controller so that seems the way to go until all the elements have been tied up. i see from your sample that i did not need to define separte "Out" strings to avoid info clashes when sending data to the Motor and also the info seems to be able to be sent sequentially which is another plus so learnt so big lessons here today. will keep in touch jim cos my intntion all along was to like you make my stuff available to those who genuinly would like to use but not abuse the efforts of others .

[RobiD]

Ok, maybe I over-reacted, but I do dislike the fact that some people would take your hard work, and sell it for their own gain. That's not cricket.

But once again, always grateful to all you guys for the work you put in.

David

[Dutchboy]

I have talked to Jim a little about this, and I won't be releasing my source code any longer either. I brought up the idea of open source motion control and received a lot of help from MattO setting it up and adding people to the group etc. Matt has been exceptional, so this in no way reflects his efforts to help us. In the end, there were very few people that actually commented and contributed in that forum. I think we should keep the forum there in the off chance that someone gets a spark to get involved, but there hasn't been a post there since I posted last in September.

When I announced that I was doing motion control open source, all sorts of people chimed in wanting to be part of it. I had Matt add them and then they disappeared into the woodwork. I went away and got married and went on vacation. I even worked hard to release the base code before I left for others to get a start, only to get back to absolutely no movement other than the same dedicated individuals as before the project started. Perhaps I thought the community was more than it really is, or maybe I thought it would happen much faster. Maybe C# isn't the way to go for a group project because it is too difficult and new? I'm not really sure why everyone lost interest. I fear that it comes down the the 80/20 rule again (I'm still waiting for life to prove this rule wrong) 20 percent of the people do 80 percent of the work.

I will release a program, but it will only be a binary compiled installer. It sounds like I'm bitter, but really I'm just disappointed that the group didn't flourish like I thought it would.

Dutchboy

[AndyT]

Most people are not programmers and those of us that are or can do programming may not have the time.
Myself, I'd love to help, but the real world has 95% of my attention right now and I'm not sure when I'll have time to help out as much as I'd love to.

[Dutchboy]

Fair enough.

Rest assured that I also live in the real world. I work 10+ hours a day at my "real job", I just finished getting married, and I have to finish developing my basement at some point before my new wife divorces me ;)

With that said, I love flight sims like the rest of you and can find a few hours a week to devote to making it that much more believable. This is a hobby after all.

Dutchboy

[AndyT]

Just to give you an idea,
I work at least 5 days a week.
I am a volunteer at church for numerous events and I teach a guitar class 2-3 nights a week.

My sim is in storage and that is the biggest reason I dont get more involved, I simply dont have the hardware handy to work with. If all the members here send me $100 each, I could buy myself a house and move my sim back home. Any donations? :D :cool:

[Dutchboy]

Let's all give Andy some money so he can buy a house and we can all move in and make a big A380 sim with 20 or so seats.

Dutchboy

[wannabeaflyer]

Hi Dutchboy just thought i'd drop you a line to say i very much appreciated your releasing your code, i have no ulterior motive other than wanting to get jump start into writing my own motion control software, i was not at this stage able to get to grips with c# in a comfortable manner, which would have allowed me to Chip in and help with the development ( c# is great and has lots going for it but scary for a complete novice ). I have since tried Jims Base Code in VB and found i was able to use my basic programming knowledge ( and i mean basic not BASIC )LOL:-) to start to see how i could achive my goal of programming VB for my Platform. Sorry i could not provide the feedback you needed but i learnt a Bucket load from your code and it wont be abused. i will eventually get back to C# but at this stage VB seemed the easier option for me to get my platform moving again. There are many out there that just need the kick start you guys provide to get their projects going and i'd like to think soon you guys will get the feedback and credit you deserve for giving us the start we needed :-) so guys just to say thanks for the great ideas and the direction leads without you internet or no internet our projects would not see the light of day . Cheers and Big Up thanks for the the work you have made available to the sincere masses.. PS by all means protect your work ,i have only just started messing about with code and alread the little lady wants my head on a plate so im learning that it takes serious commitment and s Sh@t :-) load of time to do what you guys have done LOL:-) 8) without this Great forum i would still be desk bound ( Not a bad thing But with motion i have seen the light)

[Dutchboy]

Thanks Wannabeaflyer. I know that you have asked questions and have made quite a bit of movement on the code yourself.

I think I was just kranky yesterday when I posted because I haven't been able to make as much progress on my platform myself. I have the final design down, and I have decided to build a dual seat general aviation platform. I will be making cockpit dash plates for the Cessna 172 G1000 and most likely something a little bigger like the the Beechcraft Baron 58 at a later time.

As far as the software goes, I'm at a point where I need to have my platform built so I can test out the feel of the movement. Testing on my miniature prototypes can only go so far.

Thanks again for the support, and I hope to be at a stage where I can publish my application for everyone to try early next year.

Dutchboy

[AndyT]

For those of you working on the open source code, instead of releasing the open source, copyright the software to MyCockpit and release it as freeware. Or release it for a very minimal charge, say $5 a copy and all proceeds go to help support MyCockpit.

Just a thought.

[Dutchboy]

I still don't know what direction I'm going to take at this point. I'm going to just continue to do the code on my own and release it for people to test that have the same setup that I do. I'll probably do this through my website www.simulatormotion.com

I will be doing the Joyrider style 2-DOF for my first platform.

Dutchboy

[deskpilot]

louis,
Its been awhile since this thread and I too am trying to make a motion platform as cheap as possible untill I get to know about them. My platform will be for a DCS black Shark atack helicopter. The Pit is perty much built so now I am working on the platform. I could not open your attachments to see the pictures of yours but I did read the complete wording. Is there some way you could send me the pictures in another form and what all is needed to make a platform other that the base and the(moveable) top platform. iemotors,accuators,relay cards ect.