Level D

[garyk007]

PDPO (Peter)

I thank you for your offer.

I think it is a great idea to chat on teamspeak.
I will fist play a bit more with note pad and some basic examples. then I will ask you to join me on teamspeak.
I will also email the text files so you can have a look.

Thanks again, it is great to find so many people willing to help.

[Michael Carter]

I am doing more or less what Gwyn is doing. Relying on the aircraft for basic functions. Most can be accomplished with FSUIPC and FDT cards among others. I have a suprising amount of overhead functionality just using a Hagstrom card and FSUIPC.

Every system aboard the aircraft will probably not be fully functional until something else comes along, but it will provide enough realistic simulation until that time.

I refuse to pay what PM charges for software. It is not suited to my aircraft anyway, but if it was I still wouldn't pay for it.

There's more than one way to skin a cat.

[Gsey]

I am doing more or less what Gwyn is doing. Relying on the aircraft for basic functions. Most can be accomplished with FSUIPC and FDT cards among others. I have a suprising amount of overhead functionality just using a Hagstrom card and FSUIPC.

Every system aboard the aircraft will probably not be fully functional until something else comes along, but it will provide enough realistic simulation until that time.

I refuse to pay what PM charges for software. It is not suited to my aircraft anyway, but if it was I still wouldn't pay for it.

There's more than one way to skin a cat.

IMO The current price for PM systems for any aircraft other than the 737 is unethical.

Gary

[mauriceb]

That is good news ... competition is what is needed. The only risk is that with such a small customer base that there won't be enough to go around. However it would be good to have at least 2-3 serious players in this field. And if the price and support are reasonable it may just bring more wanna-be builders into the game. Right now PM is scaring people off with higher $ and faltering reliability - which is a real pity.

I would agree almost 100% but I am also 100% sure that any new player in this field is also going to run into support problems, much like Enrico is now. I don't think there will ever be a large enough cockpit builder market to justify the cost of hiring enough programmers and support people to deal with the myriad of configurations & ever changing hardware issues out there.

It's a nice thought, but I think we are in a long uphill battle to get bug free flight deck simulation software and PM is still my best bet unless they decide to abandon us & concentrate on their commercial ventures, which is something Enrico promised he would not do.

Maurice

[Westozy]

IMO The current price for PM systems for any aircraft other than the 737 is unethical.

Gary

I think it is the high prices that keeps the customer base small. We are all taking on a huge task and a mountain of problems to overcome in order to build a functioning home cockpit, I'll bet there are many builders that start and quit. If there was software and hardware that made it all easy, the customer base would be huge and prices would be more reasonable. On the grand scale of things I think the hobby is still in it's infancy and will keep growing. I joined IFSBI as member #59 and in 18 months there are now nearly 2000 of us, that must be some indication of the growth. The guy who inspired me to build my own cockpit here in Perth had a 777 cockpit with full PM suite, 3 PCs etc, he gave it up and went back to the desktop after having a gutsful of the PM problems. He now flys my sim and he can't believe the result acheived with PMDG and 1 PC.
I've stopped reading the PM problem threads as it's all above my head and I can't help anyone anyway. I don't want to appear to be a PM basher as I truly applaud all vendors who try to help us maintain our hobby. The PM software suite has been around a long time now and still obviously isn't quite right, yet it continues to grow more expensive and the user's frustration is evident here daily. I think I need to write about this in my next Computer Pilot article, maybe it will prompt some action or is that just wishful thinking? I'm glad I haven't shelled out that much cash for my sim! Sooner or later the right solution will appear, it usually does...

[mauriceb]

I think I need to write about this in my next Computer Pilot article, maybe it will prompt some action or is that just wishful thinking?

Maybe wishful thinking, but it would be nice if you did. Anything that may ignite a response would be beneficial.

One more though about this though; I don't think the price of the PM software is the main &/or only factor that keeps more cockpit builders away. Yes, it's expensive, but compared to the price of all the hardware that goes into a full blown flight deck, it's really pocket change.

Maurice

[Westozy]

[quote=mauriceb;36464]Maybe wishful thinking, but it would be nice if you did. Anything that may ignite a response would be beneficial.

That's exactly what I was thinking, to try and trigger a response as I have read the complaints of PM customers who are feeling ignored.
I can imagine the total expense of buying all of the parts to make a cockpit would be huge making the price of PM appear small percentage, but in my case where I have made my own parts, PM would represent about a quarter of its cost. I would be really upset if I spent that much and wasn't satisfied with the product. To be fair though, the PM guys must have a **** of a lot on their plate and it must be practically impossible to reply to each individual's request for help. I quizzed PMDG on some interface issues and was ignored several times, when I sent a 'bogus' email asking about another aspect of their products, I was answered immediately. They all must have huge "Too Hard" baskets!

[JBaymore]

[QUOTE=Westozy;36465]

I can imagine the total expense of buying all of the parts to make a cockpit would be huge making the price of PM appear small percentage, but in my case where I have made my own parts, PM would represent about a quarter of its cost.

DITTO here! Exactly my situutaion too. If I had to buy premade stuff for most of the pit like panels and knobs, and so on .... like all from places like FDS or Engravity or ???? .... I wouldn't even HAVE a pit in the first place. The fact that I am a craftsman in RL (potter) and am able to fabricate stuff reasonably well is what allows this whole project.

And it STILL is not a cheap endeavor.

I think both TOTAL price and physical SPACE are the biggest impediments to the newcomer. Not to mention the COMPLEXITY of it all ....... particularly if you start right off trying to copy some very particular specific aircraft right down to the screw locations. That is a formula for frustration and failure. Or the solution to that is to spend a LOT of money. But if you don't have the money...... you just don't build.

When you spend thousands of dollars for just the panel facings for the pit....... a thousand for the PM package does not seem too bad. When you spend HUNDREDS for the panels....... a thousand sounds like a LOT of money!

best,

....................john

[Michael Carter]

Maybe wishful thinking, but it would be nice if you did. Anything that may ignite a response would be beneficial.

One more though about this though; I don't think the price of the PM software is the main &/or only factor that keeps more cockpit builders away. Yes, it's expensive, but compared to the price of all the hardware that goes into a full blown flight deck, it's really pocket change.

Maurice

That's is true, but software is an intangeable. It's not something you push or turn, or that lights up like a CDU or FMC. Of course, the software makes all of that possible, but it's just not something you can put your hands on.

When I see a piece of Boeing, Collins, or Gables equipment for sale, I'm thinking, wow, that'll look great in the 727 and it's the right part. I don't think like that about software.

Although I was pretty excited about the Dreamfleet 727.

[imported_767300]

Hi guys I got a question,would it be possible to run project magenta for the glass and use leveld and fsconv for everything else without any conflicts?