Large number of flickering/ghost inputs on Master Cards

[Boeing 747 Flyer]

Hi Les,

I can confirm there was nothing whatsoever in terms of outputs (no LEDs nor 7-segment displays) connected to these 2 master cards, just inputs. I command "ALL ON" with no outputs connected and still get the problem. It is now happening on both master cards.

[iwik]

Jack,
You have four m/c, can u try the other two cards just to make sure either of the first two are not faulty. Also have no inputs connected but bridge a few inputs and test.
Les
P.S Try with M/C's plugged directly(no cables) into the USB expansion pcb.

[Boeing 747 Flyer]

Hi Les,

I swapped the master card in question around and I can confirm the flickering does indeed still happen with another card substituted in its place (ie it appears to not be a problem with any of the mastercards themselves). I will try to plug them directly into the card at another point since it is quite difficult to achieve that at the moment given my layout.

On another note, I connected an oscilloscope to some of the flickering outputs today to try and ascertain what was going on. Whenever "ALL ON" is initiated there is definitely a very clear voltage spike across the inputs even if the switches are not moved. Furthermore, even when the "ALL ON" is left ON (ie steady), the voltage does not stay constant, but rather oscillates; there definitely seems to be a significant amount of noise across these inputs.

I have yet again tested the wiring on (some) of my inputs, and can confirm that there appears to be nothing wrong at the switch end; all inputs give a very clean "OFF/ON" operation without any such flickering.

My next move is certainly going to be a power supply change as I'm running out of options here. Could you provide me with a link to a suitable power supply? That would be much appreciated.

I am genuinely getting very worried that there is no solution here, the problem just seems so deep rooted and difficult to isolate. There is no single act that does or doesn't cause the flickering, it's so temperamental! The only certainly is the "ALL ON" command, that's definitely causing most of the problems.

Cheers,

Jack

[HansJansen]

Hi Les,

I swapped the master card in question around and I can confirm the flickering does indeed still happen with another card substituted in its place (ie it appears to not be a problem with any of the mastercards themselves). I will try to plug them directly into the card at another point since it is quite difficult to achieve that at the moment given my layout.

Jack

Hi Jack (and Les),

I apologise for barging in on your discussion here, but do you mean the same physical Master Card, or the card at the same port on the Expansion Card? This is to me beginning to reek of problems with that card...

If this occurs with any Master on the specific Expansion port, then you could try, as suggested above, to connect it without intermediate cable. Also, take a stern look at the Expansion card itself; you might have a bad soldering joint somewhere. Check if all IC's are seated firmly on their support, especially the PIC. Try another Expansion card if you can get access to one. If nothing helps, get the new PIC from OC; it at least solves a problem which looked a little like what you have here.

Just a few ideas which occurred to me; luckily I have never experienced something like this in my own setup (which may still occur in the future, as I am in the process of wiring up for my third and fourth Master Cards).

Hope you find the culprit!

Regards,

[yoss]

Well, don know if that helps in your case , i had single OC master card connected via parallel port and without running SIOC soft i had many flickerings
When Sioc was running, all worked as it should

Regards
Joseph

[iwik]

Hans/Joseph,
All comments I'm sure is appreciated by all. We are all here to help.
Jack,
Don't worry, the behavior you are experiencing is not normal so there is something wrong.
from your description you say it is difficult to just plug in the m/c to the Expansion board.
This suggests you still have it hooked up like your photo's.
If you are getting all these spikes on your inputs then it seems noise is your problem.
If I was you I would remove the Expansion card and M/C completely and test on the bench
on their own. If I remember from early o/c docs that 5v wa sonly needed if you were
driving displays from the m/c.
Any PC p/s from your Computer shop that wrecks pc should be adequate. At least for testing
as the price should be peanuts.
Les

[Boeing 747 Flyer]

Hi Les,

I spent the day yesterday dismantling everything and so although the actual wiring to the switches remains the same, I have "freed" the master cards such that they can be moved around. I have spent today cleaning all the little tiny bits of dust off them today and so they are now perfectly clean. So don't worry, they are not connected as before, I am now in a position where I can connect/disconnect whatever I want. The reason it was difficult to directly plug into the USBExpansion has now been solved.

I have connected them directly and can confirm that it hasn't made much of a difference, still getting flickering inputs on and off. I have indeed isolated and am testing them one-by-one to see where the problem lies, but like I say the issue is so random and temperamental it is very hard to pinpoint an exact source of the flickering.

@Hans: Thanks very much for your response Hans. I removed the master card in question and replaced it with another (working) master card, and still have very similar problems. Your point about the USBExpansion leads me onto my next point...

As I wrote a few pages previous, I am very concerned about the fact that when JUST the USBExpansion card is plugged in (with no master cards attached) there is significant (huge!!!) amounts of flickering across all of the slots visible in SIOC monitor. Just touching the metal casing of each USBExpansion card slot with my finger causes the flickering to get progressively worse/better... Is this normal? Les/Hans, can you tell me what happens when you JUST plug your USBExpansion card in with nothing else attached?

Jack

[iwik]

Jack,
I have done some tests on my two o/c setups. One does not have any displays, the other has about 8 7 segment
and some leds. here is the results. Were not able to test with the SIOC monitor but used Contraldor.exe which was
the old test program. This is available in the Sioc folder.

The Unit that did not have any displays caused NO INPUT FLICKERING when the ALL ON was left running. This setup
has no external 5v Connected.

Unit two which has displays and is my main setup was tested as above without 5v external supply and when ALL ON
was commanded MANY INPUTS FLICKERED.
Connecting external 5v(from a PC P/S) the INPUT FLICKERING STOPPED COMPLETELY.

So as I suggested earlier your best bet now is to get that P/S.
Hope this helps and let us know what happens.
Les

[Boeing 747 Flyer]

Hi Les,

Thanks very much for experimentation, I am somewhat relieved with your findings as it suggests it is indeed a PSU problem and not a faulty master/USBExpansion card. What you have described does indeed sound very similar to what I am experiencing; out of interest, did you have any inputs connected to the flickering card? Or nothing connected to the input slots on the MC?

So yes, my next move is certainly going to be to get a new PSU. I have eyed this one up on Ebay, looks quite cheap?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/450w-Power...item53f4a6079a

May I ask how a 5V output is obtained from these? I have absolutely no experience whatsoever with PC power supplies, I assume they will have to be modded/hacked in some way in order to get a 5V output? I also assume that you can source all of the 5V supplies for each master card from the same PSU (due to the larger load capability). Let me know what you think.

[iwik]

Hi Jack,
One setup without display was tested with inputs as it was in a case and not easy to fiddle with.
The other one was tried with exp,m/c ,display and inputs all connected. Also with exp card only and
still did it. It appears its the display that requires the grunt as was stated by o/c.
With a PC P/S just use the red leads as these are 5v. You will have to connect the Green wire to a
Black wire of the plug that comes from the P/S. This will turn on the P/S. Just use a switch here.
Of course you must turn the master switch on. I would drive each m/c with 5v directly. You could
daisy chain but cable will have to be big enough.
The link to P/S seems it will be ok.
Just as a side point what was the rating of the p/s you were using to power the m/c.
Give me the Current rating.
Les