737 or Avro Rj(Bae146) Project?

[Ronson2k9]

A pixel is one graphic square in the image for instance the thinnest lines are 1 pixel thick. So they are 2.5 inches thick. It was the largest drawing I could find of the BAE RJ. I could blow that up but then I/you would loose resolution. Lines would become 2-4 pixels thick. Then it's more of educated guess then an accurate drawing.

First save the picture in to your desktop (right click - save image)
then open it up in a graphics program say Gimp or Paint.net etc
Set the ruler to pixels
then every line you draw will give you the pixel length (that's your measuring tape)
You can then measure anything in the drawing you want.
Write down the number of pixels, multiply by the 2.5" or 62.5mm and there you go.

The FCOM wouldn't have dimensions most likely. Perhaps for emergency doors and the like but not for normal operations. The posters are what you need pretty well. From there you will have pretty well all the dimensions you will need to build all the flight controls. The rest you can get from photos. If you're building a shell.

I know the one set is 1:1 scale but you can get them in smaller sizes. That's for lets say a class on switchology and you want your students to have a size they can take with them. The 1:1 scale would be for you/instructor. The other is probably the same but reduced for printing/storage convenience perhaps? I fired off an email to the 'less expensive' one to see if they know the scale of the panel they have for sale.

That said there are standard gauges on the panel you can use to scale up the panel with. Remember the manual location I sent you to before. In there you will see manuals of other aircraft with common instruments. If you can find the dimension of the common instrument and the image of the panel you have a scale. As the instrument dimension will give you that. As I'm building a Cessna 185 the part manual I have of that doesn't have any measurements so I went with the common gauge size to get the dimensions. There are ways around difficulties. Of course nothing beats seat time with a measuring tape if you can get it. Or even if you had your friend take a few measurements for you.

Pedestal width and height
Throttle quad width and height
MIP width and leg clearance.
Autopilot dimensions and overhang.
Then perhaps the overhead dimensions.

I did some educated calculations. Just to explain what I did so you get an idea of the accuracy.
- I took the flattest pic I could get of the Avro RJ MIP I could find on airliners.net.
- I then measured on of the smaller gauges not because they didn't have bigger ones but the smaller ones in this case are more standardized.
- Then I measured in pixels at the center point (where the one of the smaller gauges sits in the photo) the diameter of the gauge
- Then I converted that into a known measurement. 27.76p = 56.56mm
- Then I measured out the following large dimensions.

MIP (Main Instrument Panel) not the mount it sits in (no fairing)
Width = 2.042m
Height = 0.522m or 52.2cm

AP (Autopilot) on top of the MIP
Width = 1.1812m
Height = 0.150m or 15.2cm
- Note as this is off the 'plain' of parallax (sticks out from parallax) it's a best guess.

CDU (Control Data Unit) - Forward most part of the pedestal
Width = 0.641m or 64.1cm

Note also the MIP is angled away from the pilot from bottom to top slightly. I would say 10 to 15 degrees.

That should give a let's say an infield view of the ballpark your making. It's not 100% accurate but it's pretty close. Your 1:1 or other scale drawing of the MIP and other control boxes will be much better (welll 100%)

You can also go through the list of avionics in the BAE RJ technical brochure and then track down the tech specs of the avionics in the list.

It's not an easy job piecing the stuff together because basically you are outside looking in. It can be done though. If your patient and work diligently you'll find everything you need.

With me it started basically the same way. It takes time to work it out. Some of the bits will be 'as best as possible' others will be bang on. Unless your building a pit that an actual pilot will be flying then as best as possible will do. That's not to say you have to sacrifice accuracy but the feel will be there of the actual cockpit your building and that's what is important. All the other stuff is just to immerse you into that. You will also find and this is more the case for the heavies then the GA aircraft. That you'll be making things more then buying them ready made. As the heavy parts are more expensive and harder to find.

As you have chosen the 'Glass' version of the BAE you can get away with using LCD's for many of your instruments. In this case the BAE Panel Project is the place to go for the instruments. As he not only built the panel but programed many of the instruments that are custom to the BAE RJ. You may need to resize and so on using the Panel Creator software to get it to the size of your full size pit but that's pretty easy. As all the coding of the instruments is done it's wyswyg.

This getting a bit long so I'll end here for now. That should get you started though on your road to dimensional heaven..

Cheers
Ron

[Timmi]

A pixel is one graphic square in the image for instance the thinnest lines are 1 pixel thick. So they are 2.5 inches thick. It was the largest drawing I could find of the BAE RJ. I could blow that up but then I/you would loose resolution. Lines would become 2-4 pixels thick. Then it's more of educated guess then an accurate drawing.

First save the picture in to your desktop (right click - save image)
then open it up in a graphics program say Gimp or Paint.net etc
Set the ruler to pixels
then every line you draw will give you the pixel length (that's your measuring tape)
You can then measure anything in the drawing you want.
Write down the number of pixels, multiply by the 2.5" or 62.5mm and there you go.

The FCOM wouldn't have dimensions most likely. Perhaps for emergency doors and the like but not for normal operations. The posters are what you need pretty well. From there you will have pretty well all the dimensions you will need to build all the flight controls. The rest you can get from photos. If you're building a shell.

I know the one set is 1:1 scale but you can get them in smaller sizes. That's for lets say a class on switchology and you want your students to have a size they can take with them. The 1:1 scale would be for you/instructor. The other is probably the same but reduced for printing/storage convenience perhaps? I fired off an email to the 'less expensive' one to see if they know the scale of the panel they have for sale.

That said there are standard gauges on the panel you can use to scale up the panel with. Remember the manual location I sent you to before. In there you will see manuals of other aircraft with common instruments. If you can find the dimension of the common instrument and the image of the panel you have a scale. As the instrument dimension will give you that. As I'm building a Cessna 185 the part manual I have of that doesn't have any measurements so I went with the common gauge size to get the dimensions. There are ways around difficulties. Of course nothing beats seat time with a measuring tape if you can get it. Or even if you had your friend take a few measurements for you.

Pedestal width and height
Throttle quad width and height
MIP width and leg clearance.
Autopilot dimensions and overhang.
Then perhaps the overhead dimensions.

I did some educated calculations. Just to explain what I did so you get an idea of the accuracy.
- I took the flattest pic I could get of the Avro RJ MIP I could find on airliners.net.
- I then measured on of the smaller gauges not because they didn't have bigger ones but the smaller ones in this case are more standardized.
- Then I measured in pixels at the center point (where the one of the smaller gauges sits in the photo) the diameter of the gauge
- Then I converted that into a known measurement. 27.76p = 56.56mm
- Then I measured out the following large dimensions.

MIP (Main Instrument Panel) not the mount it sits in (no fairing)
Width = 2.042m
Height = 0.522m or 52.2cm

AP (Autopilot) on top of the MIP
Width = 1.1812m
Height = 0.150m or 15.2cm
- Note as this is off the 'plain' of parallax (sticks out from parallax) it's a best guess.

CDU (Control Data Unit) - Forward most part of the pedestal
Width = 0.641m or 64.1cm

Note also the MIP is angled away from the pilot from bottom to top slightly. I would say 10 to 15 degrees.

That should give a let's say an infield view of the ballpark your making. It's not 100% accurate but it's pretty close. Your 1:1 or other scale drawing of the MIP and other control boxes will be much better (welll 100%)

You can also go through the list of avionics in the BAE RJ technical brochure and then track down the tech specs of the avionics in the list.

It's not an easy job piecing the stuff together because basically you are outside looking in. It can be done though. If your patient and work diligently you'll find everything you need.

With me it started basically the same way. It takes time to work it out. Some of the bits will be 'as best as possible' others will be bang on. Unless your building a pit that an actual pilot will be flying then as best as possible will do. That's not to say you have to sacrifice accuracy but the feel will be there of the actual cockpit your building and that's what is important. All the other stuff is just to immerse you into that. You will also find and this is more the case for the heavies then the GA aircraft. That you'll be making things more then buying them ready made. As the heavy parts are more expensive and harder to find.

As you have chosen the 'Glass' version of the BAE you can get away with using LCD's for many of your instruments. In this case the BAE Panel Project is the place to go for the instruments. As he not only built the panel but programed many of the instruments that are custom to the BAE RJ. You may need to resize and so on using the Panel Creator software to get it to the size of your full size pit but that's pretty easy. As all the coding of the instruments is done it's wyswyg.

This getting a bit long so I'll end here for now. That should get you started though on your road to dimensional heaven..

Cheers
Ron

Thank you so much Ron. You have really helped me out I will start building as soon as possible will keep you updated promise.
Just ordered the MIP poster and I hope it will arrive here in Sweden soon so that I can start. Maybe I even will make a trip to manchester to see the Avro RJX.
So I will try to set up a drawing with the measures you gave me and so yep let's pause for now with the writing and I'll make some action with my future Home Cockpit and hopefully sucessfull. Thanks again Ron have been very helpful very appriciated.

Thanks/ Tim

[Ronson2k9]

When I said I'd end here. That didn't mean I was done writing in the thread just that that particular message was getting pretty long. Sometimes I can run on a bit hehe. I'll keep looking for info and the like for you on for simpit and put up what ever I can find. I am working on mine too so it's a bit of diversion when my work stalls a bit.

Have you decided what model of the of RJ your going to make? Not that the flight deck is much different but there aren't to many FSX/FS2004 models out there for you to choose from. Well in reality outside of the engines and the flightdeck the RJ and 146 are the same bird pretty well. They are configured differently on the inside but from the outside they are the same. You know of course that there are no reversers on the engines. I should think though that they would produce a great deal of drag when at idle and there is the speed brake on the back. Their thrust to weight is probably higher accounting for it's less then excellent fuel economy. Hey in the sim fuel is free hehe.

In case you are wondering what the current inventory of BAE 146/RJ are flying today here is a site with the most up to date fleet info. Airliner List.com and there Zipped XLS format fleet info on the 146/RJ Fleets (Sept 24, 2010)

I tried getting some avionics info from Honeywell's website but after spending a bit of time trying to get into there information system it finally told me I needed to be an American citizen.. So no dice as I'm Canadian. I had found a PDF on the MIDU that was supposedly in the RJ70 but I couldn't find a cockpit picture with that unit in there. So that's what inspired the trip to Honeywell.

I found this Honeywell Flight Acronym Dictionary.PDF

List of avionics on board the standard RJ

• Collins passenger address system
• Dual Collins 8.33Khz VHF Comms
• Honeywell DFGS
• Dual Collins DME700
• Dual ADF
• Dual VHF Nav (ILS720/VOR700A)
• Single or dual Collins Radalt
• Sundstrand Mk5 GPWS or Honeywell EGPWS
• Dual GNS-X or Collins GNLU910A Nav. Management Systems
• Honeywell RDR-4A Weather radar
• TCAS Change 7
• Dual Mode ‘S’ transponders
• Flight Data Recorder
• Cockpit Voice Recorder

There is also the FADEC engine management system. As they are using the Honeywell LF507-1F engines that is also attached to there FADEC system. That is it also is by Honeywell. Same engines are used on the Embraer E170 btw. A trip back to smart cockpit yielded nothing on the bird either .. Worth a shot though.

The info search will continue. I'll be curious as to how close I was on the MIP measurements when you get the posters. At about 2 meters wide that's a biggie. Mine is only 40" or just over a meter wide. Depending on weather you are going to make a shell then it's a bit bigger about 0.75m or so. There are some controls on the panels to the left of the captains seat. Crew calls and so on I'm thinking. From photos of the overhead it's divided into two major sections. Engine electrical and environmental controls and the breaker panel. The former being forward most.

It's an unusual bird and that's what makes it special. It's STOL and multiple configurations give it a wide variety of roles and routes. In my book that makes it an excellent project. I'll monitor your progress and keep trying to get more info for you as best as I can

Cheers
Ron

[Timmi]

When I said I'd end here. That didn't mean I was done writing in the thread just that that particular message was getting pretty long. Sometimes I can run on a bit hehe. I'll keep looking for info and the like for you on for simpit and put up what ever I can find. I am working on mine too so it's a bit of diversion when my work stalls a bit.

Have you decided what model of the of RJ your going to make? Not that the flight deck is much different but there aren't to many FSX/FS2004 models out there for you to choose from. Well in reality outside of the engines and the flightdeck the RJ and 146 are the same bird pretty well. They are configured differently on the inside but from the outside they are the same. You know of course that there are no reversers on the engines. I should think though that they would produce a great deal of drag when at idle and there is the speed brake on the back. Their thrust to weight is probably higher accounting for it's less then excellent fuel economy. Hey in the sim fuel is free hehe.

In case you are wondering what the current inventory of BAE 146/RJ are flying today here is a site with the most up to date fleet info. Airliner List.com and there Zipped XLS format fleet info on the 146/RJ Fleets (Sept 24, 2010)

I tried getting some avionics info from Honeywell's website but after spending a bit of time trying to get into there information system it finally told me I needed to be an American citizen.. So no dice as I'm Canadian. I had found a PDF on the MIDU that was supposedly in the RJ70 but I couldn't find a cockpit picture with that unit in there. So that's what inspired the trip to Honeywell.

I found this Honeywell Flight Acronym Dictionary.PDF

List of avionics on board the standard RJ

• Collins passenger address system
• Dual Collins 8.33Khz VHF Comms
• Honeywell DFGS
• Dual Collins DME700
• Dual ADF
• Dual VHF Nav (ILS720/VOR700A)
• Single or dual Collins Radalt
• Sundstrand Mk5 GPWS or Honeywell EGPWS
• Dual GNS-X or Collins GNLU910A Nav. Management Systems
• Honeywell RDR-4A Weather radar
• TCAS Change 7
• Dual Mode ‘S’ transponders
• Flight Data Recorder
• Cockpit Voice Recorder

There is also the FADEC engine management system. As they are using the Honeywell LF507-1F engines that is also attached to there FADEC system. That is it also is by Honeywell. Same engines are used on the Embraer E170 btw. A trip back to smart cockpit yielded nothing on the bird either .. Worth a shot though.

The info search will continue. I'll be curious as to how close I was on the MIP measurements when you get the posters. At about 2 meters wide that's a biggie. Mine is only 40" or just over a meter wide. Depending on weather you are going to make a shell then it's a bit bigger about 0.75m or so. There are some controls on the panels to the left of the captains seat. Crew calls and so on I'm thinking. From photos of the overhead it's divided into two major sections. Engine electrical and environmental controls and the breaker panel. The former being forward most.

It's an unusual bird and that's what makes it special. It's STOL and multiple configurations give it a wide variety of roles and routes. In my book that makes it an excellent project. I'll monitor your progress and keep trying to get more info for you as best as I can

Cheers
Ron

Ahh ooh sorry thought you meant that we should stop writing hehe my bad. Yes I have looked around for a good Avro rj model to use inf Fsx/Fs9 and I've found some interesting stuff. Aerosoft online Eurowings BAe 146 is one of em. Allso Jon Murchison has made a good BAe146. But what software can I use that is for Avro RJ? Project magenta does'nt have anything what I know. I guess I'll have to use LCD screens for all the main displays like NAV, Engine and such displays. Bu some things is very easy like the MCP is taken form the 737 allso allmost all gauges are taken form the 737 to. But I would relly like a real altimeter gauge not a screen one or you know not showed on the screen. So Panel is to start with and after that I will try to build a grade one shell and then try to beat the overhead building. Maybe I can try to find a0 real avro overhead but that will cost whole credit card hehe. But it's only the buttons from the Avro RJ that is hard to make (or find for sale). I'll come back soon as the clock is 22.15 here in sweden so better go to bed soon hehe. Yep thanks Ron and see ya soon

[Sean Nixon]

I also find the flight deck videos helpful in getting a feeling for the layout and procedures of a particular aircraft.

Justplanes do a couple...

http://secure.simmarket.com/advanced...p?keywords=146

Here's a preview of the Albanian Airlines one...

[Sean Nixon]

Found some more...

[Timmi]

Found some more...

Thx Sean yeah that really makes quite a feeling of the cockpit

[mpl330]

Maybe I even will make a trip to manchester to see the Avro RJX.
Thanks/ Tim

Hi Tim,
Just uploaded a few cockpit photos of the RJX at Manchester in case they help...

http://www.mycockpit.org/photopost/s...ry.php?cat=613

Cheers
Mike

[Timmi]

Hi Tim,
Just uploaded a few cockpit photos of the RJX at Manchester in case they help...

http://www.mycockpit.org/photopost/s...ry.php?cat=613

Cheers
Mike

Thanks Mike

[Ronson2k9]

Fresh out the shop Premier Aircraft BAE146-100/200 or RJ 70/85 Their VC isn't much to look at but then you are building your own. They are usually quite meticulous when it comes to modeling and the exterior model looks quite good. Definitely worth a look see...

Cheers
Ron