Sim Avionics join forces with Flight Deck Solutions!!!

[Kennair]

2. My personal results showed that PM was faster then Sim-A. NOW... I've been told by a few people they got great results running Sim-A. Sim-A uses a server software that runs on a PC. (any, fs's pc, another pc, whatever you want) and then an avionics software. This avionics software, for me, is a window that is stretched across the entire set of 3 screens. From the cap pfd all the way to the fo's nd. In the software you checkmark which "pieces" you want. cap pfd, check it, on, cap nd, check it on, clock? check it on. Whatever you want. So when this stretched window comes up, you place each piece within the large window where you want it. So, why is my large avionics only getting 7 fps? Well, I think it's video cards. In PM's case, I'm running 3 "pfds" (Which is the PM glass cockpit software) and each pfd window fits on to a particular LCD. PM tech support does not offer "multi monitor" support, but you can do it. It is tricky. Just moving your displays around in the display settings is enough for your upper engine to end up on the captains pfd side, etc. But, if you DO get it working, it's pretty smooth. So, in my video card patchwork (An 8400 GS running cap pfd/nd and fo pfd/nd and a 210 gs running the upper engine) the PM solution works because each LCD has it's own window. In the Sim-A solution, I have a large 3000 something pixel window stretched across 3 lcd's, IE, two video cards, that are different, with different memory timings, different bus speeds, etc. In the world of computers, that's a no no heh. SO... I "believe" that if I get two identical (single gpu) video cards, that SIm-A will run smoothly for me. I have yet to do that, as it's more money I do have to put out, to test a demo. I probably will though.

Matt
www.my737sim.com

Hi Matt,

You mention that you stretch a single wide window to contain all your panels, perhaps this is the cause of your low frame rates? I open separate instances (3 in fact) of "Avionics.exe" that contain the PFD/ND, EICAS/Standby, & MFD respectively. Each can be cofigured, dragged and resized to your liking then saved. When opened next time they jump to their respective screens as before. In this manner I'm getting 30+ FPS out of each window and all runs beautfully. All this using the Demo I might add as I was one of the unlucky ones who procrastinated that little be too long Sim-A makes use of multimonitors out of the box, whereas PM doesn't officially support it preferring a separate machine for each panel. This is where SIM-A will kill them because it works not only to mulitiple screens but all in one box if you really want to push it.

In fact I had the whole system running on the FS machine to 4 screens via 2 (different) video cards. If it can run this well on one PC then a single network PC (which is what i recommend) will have it all running sweet. There was some stuttering on both FS and Sim-A under this setup but eminently flyable in a setup that you would have to agree was extreme. Run Sim-A on one PC and FS on another and your home and hosed. You can't necessarily do that with PM.

Your 8400GS and the 210 will run the graphics no problem so these aren't the bottle neck. None of my cards are matched and it doesn't hinder me at all. My FS PC is quite moderate being a Quad Q6600 with 4gb RAM. I have Sim-A also running networked on an old AMD 3Ghz and 2gb RAM with an AGP 6400 graphics card to 2 screens, again with separate instances of Avionics.exe and getting great frame rates on the PFD/ND & EICAS/Stby. I then add the MFD along with CDU and MCP to my laptop to another screen. Under this scenario FS and Sim-A panels runs smooth as.

Running separate instances of avionics.exe also minimizes the problem of moving panels around as you are dealing with lesser panels per window. You can hit the 'B' key to get rid of borders if you want.

As for the pricing, Sim-A is still quite a bit cheaper than PM. I have both price lists from FDS and PM and the full Sim-A suite will cost you $1700 CAD while the comparable PM suite will set you back $2250 CAD (converted from Euros). When you combine that with the fact that Sim-A can utilize multi-monitors much more effectively and run on less machins there's no comparison. Minimize your setup by just two machines and you've paid for Sim-A! Or run Sim-A and FS together on the one machine! Now you definetily can't do that with PM.

Having said this I have no affiliation with either Sim-Avionics or PM, I'm just a curious user trying to get the best deal possible. I'm also kicking myself that I didn't jump in and buy Sim-A two weeks ago!!

Ken.

[my737sim]

Hmm, what I read in the demo was that you could only run one avionics window. How are you getting multiple avionics open and configured? Did you copy the avionics exe and it's config files to separate folders?

Yes I agree completely, the issue is stretching it across screens.

Hmm let me see if I can get multiple avionics windows open.

Matt

[Kennair]

Hi Matt,

Copy a new Avionics folder for each instances you require within the Sim Avionics folder and call it "Avionics2,3,4 etc" You don't need to copy the config or display.ini files as these will be re-created the first time you start it. Create a shortcut to each new Avionics.exe and re- title to an appropriate name. I have 3 - "PFD_ND", "EICAS" & "MFD". Open and configure your selected panels in each of these windows and drag to your required monitor then press 'S' to save the config. Next time you fire up the app it'll open to the window you configured it too.

See if that helps your framerates.

Ken.

[my737sim]

Thanks for your info on that Ken. Gave it a shot, frames are great!

Now, I'm trying to figure out quality. Looks bad on my displays. I set the display smoothing to 60 in the server. Text is very broken up. Wonder if it's the font. I'm in Vista 64 bit. Not sure. I uploaded a photo at: http://www.my737sim.com/photo.jpg

Peter is asking about it as well, said his does not look like that.

[Kennair]

Yeah not sure. The fonts were pretty jaggered on my tests when running the whole shebang on a single PC but you would expect that. When I run the two panels (PFD/ND & EISCAS) on my low end network PC fonts are gorgeous so I don't think its the system specs or video. BTW my main FS PC (which I test ran everything on) is Windows7 64bit, while my network PC is XP 32. Maybe its a windows font issue? I'm at work at the moment so can't do any more tests. I'd rather have smooth running displays and slightly jaggered fonts than vica- versa though. Also I had display smoothing at the default level of 20.

You don't happen to have two screens running via a VGA splitter do you?

Ken.

[my737sim]

Yeah not sure. The fonts were pretty jaggered on my tests when running the whole shebang on a single PC but you would expect that. When I run the two panels (PFD/ND & EISCAS) on my low end network PC fonts are gorgeous so I don't think its the system specs or video. BTW my main FS PC (which I test ran everything on) is Windows7 64bit, while my network PC is XP 32. Maybe its a windows font issue? I'm at work at the moment so can't do any more tests. I'd rather have smooth running displays and slightly jaggered fonts than vica- versa though. Also I had display smoothing at the default level of 20.

You don't happen to have two screens running via a VGA splitter do you?

Ken.

Have 3 video cards, 9800GT is running FSX (projector) while 8400 GS is running cap/fo pdf nd and 210 is running eicas.

http://www.my737sim.com/?page_id=841

I run a boat load on the fsx pc and get great frames and quality with pm.

I think it's a font issue, or something to that likes. This font is horribly jagged on my end. I'll do some tests. PM looks fantastic (with font quality set to high in PM)

Each screen goes into it's own connector on the cards. IE, I'm not doing dual link DVI. These screens are all vga, while the cards are DVI, so I have to use dvi to vga adapters. Its not those, if it was, PM or anything else would look bad, which they don't.

Am going to try a different font in the config files.

Matt

[Kennair]

Whew! impressive setup Matt, well done.

Yeah I've heard others comment on the incredible font quality of PM, its obviously one of its many strengths. I also have a mixture of VGA and DVI outputs using adaptors where necessary and doesn't seem to make much difference. Using a VGA splitter does degrade quality on both screens however which is why I asked.

Let me know how you go.

Ken.

[nanticokerailroad]

Peter had mentioned to me that if you buy a lesser version, then you can upgrade for the difference later. IE, you can buy the non FO flavor.. and then later spend only the remainder to get the rest of it. So it gives you some ability to start small and work your way up.

The stripped down version is still $1000.00
All you get is the Captains Displays. If you try and access anything else they claim the program will shut down.

[nanticokerailroad]

Hi Matt,

You mention that you stretch a single wide window to contain all your panels, perhaps this is the cause of your low frame rates? I open separate instances (3 in fact) of "Avionics.exe" that contain the PFD/ND, EICAS/Standby, & MFD respectively. Each can be cofigured, dragged and resized to your liking then saved. When opened next time they jump to their respective screens as before. In this manner I'm getting 30+ FPS out of each window and all runs beautfully. All this using the Demo I might add as I was one of the unlucky ones who procrastinated that little be too long Sim-A makes use of multimonitors out of the box, whereas PM doesn't officially support it preferring a separate machine for each panel. This is where SIM-A will kill them because it works not only to mulitiple screens but all in one box if you really want to push it.

In fact I had the whole system running on the FS machine to 4 screens via 2 (different) video cards. If it can run this well on one PC then a single network PC (which is what i recommend) will have it all running sweet. There was some stuttering on both FS and Sim-A under this setup but eminently flyable in a setup that you would have to agree was extreme. Run Sim-A on one PC and FS on another and your home and hosed. You can't necessarily do that with PM.

Your 8400GS and the 210 will run the graphics no problem so these aren't the bottle neck. None of my cards are matched and it doesn't hinder me at all. My FS PC is quite moderate being a Quad Q6600 with 4gb RAM. I have Sim-A also running networked on an old AMD 3Ghz and 2gb RAM with an AGP 6400 graphics card to 2 screens, again with separate instances of Avionics.exe and getting great frame rates on the PFD/ND & EICAS/Stby. I then add the MFD along with CDU and MCP to my laptop to another screen. Under this scenario FS and Sim-A panels runs smooth as.

Running separate instances of avionics.exe also minimizes the problem of moving panels around as you are dealing with lesser panels per window. You can hit the 'B' key to get rid of borders if you want.

As for the pricing, Sim-A is still quite a bit cheaper than PM. I have both price lists from FDS and PM and the full Sim-A suite will cost you $1700 CAD while the comparable PM suite will set you back $2250 CAD (converted from Euros). When you combine that with the fact that Sim-A can utilize multi-monitors much more effectively and run on less machins there's no comparison. Minimize your setup by just two machines and you've paid for Sim-A! Or run Sim-A and FS together on the one machine! Now you definetily can't do that with PM.

Having said this I have no affiliation with either Sim-Avionics or PM, I'm just a curious user trying to get the best deal possible. I'm also kicking myself that I didn't jump in and buy Sim-A two weeks ago!!

Ken.

I just think the price point is going to be out of range for a lot of home simmers. The average user isn't going to be able to shell out that kind of cash for a single piece of software. 1000 for commercial use fine, but for a home user..... That's just Greed on the side of FDS wanting to line their pockets. I'm a commercial pilot myself and I refuse to spend that kind of money on software, no matter how good it is. I'll make due with a cheaper version for now. I would rather spend 1700.00 on a nice piece of hardware like Revolution Simproducts throttle quadrant. Everyone has to decide for themselves if it's money well spent. Happy Simming everyone.

[my737sim]

I would rather spend 1700.00 on a nice piece of hardware like Revolution Simproducts throttle quadrant. Everyone has to decide for themselves if it's money well spent. Happy Simming everyone.

I love my Revolution Throttle!

http://www.my737sim.com/?cat=125

Well, I bought the full PM suite of software... and the Sim-A software is cheaper then that heh. Everyone is going to make up their mind what they want to use.

Regardless, this hobby is expensive!!

Counting pennies...

Matt
www.my737sim.com