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Thread: PMSystems?!

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    Project Magenta PMSystems?!

    Hello guys.

    As I'm progressing more and more with my simplified A320 simulator (RMP and overhead panels will be ariving next week! ) I'm moving now onto the software side of things.

    In all my years of simulation, I have NEVER understood the point of PMSystems and Aircraft-Type Software.

    First off, why can a person not simply undock the windows from their aircraft panel and put it onto the screen? Why do people dish out $1000+ for PM gauges (IE Airbus-Type Software). Perhaps for commercial simulators where you need a certified product, but why do people spend this money?

    And what about PMSystems? I realize that it gives realistic "systems" and control of the overhead panel. What's the point if you're using an aircraft such as the Level D 767 or PMDG products that have already very good overhead panels? Is it just needed when a lower-quality aircraft is used, to boost it up to a higher "class"? And why do people pay so much for it if this is all it does.

    Thanks for the help, I'm quite confused here.

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    Re: PMSystems?!

    Quote Originally Posted by coolmanak View Post
    First off, why can a person not simply undock the windows from their aircraft panel and put it onto the screen? Why do people dish out $1000+ for PM gauges (IE Airbus-Type Software).
    Because we are using hardware overheads, hardware MCPs, hardware radio stacks, hardware MIPs, the works -- not just pretend panels on screens, but real ones with gauges, lights and switches.

    This is about building a cockpit and flying it, not just flying a PC with a bunch of screens on a desk, fun that might be. If you get a chance to visit a user with a decent cockpit, jump at the chance. You'll realise why, and once the bug has bitten it's hard to give it up. That's what happened to me, but being totally useless practically (except wiring and programming), I saved up for years and eventually bought a ready-made cockpit. I had to, after experiencing one myself.

    There are some folks (our own 737 Ian for one, I know) who have managed to build the hardware around the gauges and window parts from add-ons like the PMDG aircraft, but it has been a bit of a pain getting hardware to operate the switches and worse to get the indicators and gauge readings back to hardware displays. It is becoming a little easier to do that, folks are finding ways -- the work done on the Level D 767 is really exemplary, but then the makers of that airrcraft were wise enough to open it up a lot for such development.

    Project Magenta has been going now for over 10 years, and many sophisticated cockpits have been going nearly that long, which is really more than you can say about FS add-ons. Yes, things are changing, but there are also now alternatives to Project Magenta in the non-addon-panel dependent arena -- SimAvionics, Flight Deck Software, and FSXpand, to name the main three.

    Is it now more understandable?

    Regards
    Pete

  3. Thanks Joe Cygan thanked for this post
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    Re: PMSystems?!

    When I ment undocking windows, I ment the PFD, MFD, ECAS and ECAM windows, which are what PM covers in their aircraft gauges packages.

    PMSystems makes sence to me now, but PM gauge packages still do not. I've been doing just fine with undocking my PFD, MFD, ECAS and ECAM windows and putting them on a monitor, but if PM gauges are really worth the $1000 + that they cost, I'd consider switching.

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    Re: PMSystems?!

    Also, if we use pre-made panels (I.E. GoFlight, some CockpitSonic, etc) that are designated as either "plug and play" or have a certain kind of software that you are instructed to buy to make them work, would that still require PMSystems to run it?

    I personally up until this point (and this point may or may not be a turning point) have used FSUIPC's MouseTrapper to record every single switch, pushbutton, or knob turn, push, or flip on the overhead panel of the aircraft I am working with, and simply assigned my hardware (some cockpitsonic, some goflight) switches, knobs, and pushbuttons to do those actions. I didn't have any trouble with that, and it appears to work fine.

    Are doing things like these fine without PMSystems? Is it more for home-built panels, panels that display numbers, etc?

    Thanks for the help! I'd only like to pay for PMSystems (it's a lot of money) if it's necesarry, and right now I'm not sure if it is or isn't for me.

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    Re: PMSystems?!

    Quote Originally Posted by coolmanak View Post
    When I ment undocking windows, I ment the PFD, MFD, ECAS and ECAM windows, which are what PM covers in their aircraft gauges packages.
    Remember PM includes the CDU / FMC which is the brains of it all.

    Undocking panels is possible, but usually reduces your performance. Some high machines can handle it but networked stand alone panels help to spread out the processing requirements and helps keep FS performance as high as possible. What framerate are you getting?

    As Project Magenta user, all I can say is it is worth the money. You are comparing apples to oranges when comparing FS panels and PM.

    You don't need PM Systems to use most PnP modules, but it allows them to be highly realistic. PM Systems acts as an interface between the hardware and FS.

    But all this wouldn't be possible without FSUIPC - THANK YOU PETER DOWSON!!!!
    Grant D.
    Nelson,B.C. Canada
    Win7 32bit, FSX, PM Boeing, TH2GO, GEX, VoxATC

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    Re: PMSystems?!

    Alright, I understand it better now.

    I'll just have to get my checkbook out...

    And I agree, Oranges are way better!

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    Re: PMSystems?!

    Try the demos. You have to fly around LAX, but fully functional.
    Grant D.
    Nelson,B.C. Canada
    Win7 32bit, FSX, PM Boeing, TH2GO, GEX, VoxATC

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    Re: PMSystems?!

    I agree with Coolmanak. This is supposed to be a hobby, a high end hobby at the very least, but still a hobby. The way the prices of some of the software and hardware is getting out of control. I could never hope to be able to used the PM software, or the FDS panels. Those are reserved for those few who can afford such "luxuries". I have spent 2 years trying to build panels and FSBUS cards, korries, annunciators, a throttle.

    I fnanally built a cnc router to get my panels right. This fantastic tool cost 1/2 of the price of the MIP from FDS. The 'hobby' is no longer a hobby, it has become big business and left the true hobbiests behind in the wake.


    just my 2 cents.

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    Re: PMSystems?!

    Well, I remember when the only add-on aircraft and panels available were the ones users submitted. When I saw the first payware aircraft and panels, I laughed.

    mondo50m: What CNC router did you build? I built a Rockcliff Machine CNC and am in the process of building a Joe's CNC Hybrid 4x4.
    Grant D.
    Nelson,B.C. Canada
    Win7 32bit, FSX, PM Boeing, TH2GO, GEX, VoxATC

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    Re: PMSystems?!

    Would VasFMC work in the place of the PM gauges?

    It can be used on another computer, and everything is very similar to PM. It's just about as realistic in terms of the gauges, but the MCDU isn't perfect. However I could simply use my aircraft MCDU on a touchscreen. One single panel wouldn't hurt performance too much.

    What do you guys think of VasFMC? (free by the way).

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