Fly Engravity v's Flight Deck Solutions..............

[fly_ebos]

I can only comment on Fly Engravity. Have their 737 CDU for almost 3 years and still working without a glitch. Only this week got the pro MCP and EFIS.

I ordered it end of June and got offered the choice of either straight away delivery or waiting a couple of weeks for the latest batch with enhanced backlightening.

I thought it was great to get the choice!

[sweker]

Hmmmmm

Flightdeck Solutions has won several Boeing contracts! Yes, the same Boeing that manufactures the 737. This should indicate their quality and position in the marketplace!

Cheers, Steve

[Kitsok]

Since you seem to dislike the products from these companies so much, maybe you'd like to tell us your suggested alternative?

Firstly, I like electronix and soft from Engravity and enclosure from the Boeing (FDS). So it's not correct to say that I dislike both products.

Regarding the alternative - now (at the end of the exрibition that Peter and Ivar both now about) I think the good idea is just to waste out all the TekWorks I/O boards from the(allmost not at all working but good looking) FDS MCP and re-solder everything to the good-working (but not so realistic looking) Engravity MCP.

To be honest, because I am both an electronix and software developer(and, actually I earn money as an project manager for the 4 MUSD SW project), I really appreciate Engravity way of development and marketing, not FDSs' one. That was my own IMHO, please note this.

Today at the show we had ~40 flights and all of them - without the MCP (from the FDS). Just because the games with the A/T switch leads to the mallfunction of the whole plane (please note, based mainly on the TekWorks/FDS SYS I/O boards) due to terrible wiring inside the MCP and really high currents through the A/T lock circuit.

Advice to the FDS: If you selling the multy-k$ product - don't save on 50C ferrite coil. I'm sure you'll not get the advice, but that's up to you.

Guys, what are we talking about? If you're going to get real experience - welcome. If you're going to warm me up - I have A LOT to tell about FDS, so, Peter, better stop.

[Jackpilot]

Guys, what are we talking about? If you're going to get real experience - welcome. If you're going to warm me up - I have A LOT to tell about FDS, so, Peter, better stop.

Nobody has to warm you up..

You are doing a nice job at it by yourself.

BTW, just in case you don't get it, all of us here know what they are talking about!

Period.

[dnoize]

I wanted to stay away from this thread, but......:

the good-working (but not so realistic looking) Engravity MCP.

Uhmm, ok, lets see:

real one:




fly engravity one:








again real mcp (klm)








and again Engravity MCP








real EFIS:







FLYengravity EFIS:











So whats not so realistic about it ? correct knobs, bezels around the display windows, functional dual concentrics, solenoid autothrottle disconnect, etc.

Sure, it doesnt have the 400 $ rotary encoders and solenoid the real one has. We can make that for you, but ofcourse you would have to pay 4000 euros instead of 999,-.

Incorrect colours ?
Based on what? you only have the MCP and EFIS.
I have said this thousand times allready on this forum: there is NO boeing grey. Ive been in brand new NG's and they had different shades of grey on the MIP and pedestal.


Ivar allready showed us how great the FDS trainer looked. Most of us would love to have that at home.
Also i've heard only good reviews about the SYS boards. So based on your experience with one switch there all is bad (which is i believe a non stock item ?)


Maybe your standards have been set too high ?

Take a look here: http://www.cae.com/en/sim.products/cae.7000.series.asp

Top notch, all original parts used (honeywell, collins, boeing)

Be prepared 20 million dollars though.....


Stef





.

[Kitsok]

Stef,

Incorrect colours ?
Based on what?

Based on the words of the lines pilots and their trainers. There are no green digits in a Boeing MCP, agree?

you only have the MCP and EFIS.

I'm not sure I've 100% understand you here, but no, we don't have MCP&EFIS only, we have 99% of the cabin.

Also i've heard only good reviews about the SYS boards. So based on your experience with one switch there all is bad (which is i believe a non stock item ?)

I've found this recently and had no time to investigate it deeply, so it's my supposition, that because there is a bug in the FDS Glare driver, the solenoid logics is inverted, so when you move the A/T switch up, it's not fixed there, but it's only an issue. The problem is - when you switch it on (armed) - there is a really big current surge through the solenoid that leads to the SYS interface boards reset. Probably they are affected by surge on the digital input pins, I had this in one of my early I/O controller board design.

It looks like this - the cabin is ready to the take-off, you toggle the A/T switch and after that "three greens" go out, some lams on the overhead are going in and out, after short time (usually) it gets OK. I've said "usually" because at least twice I've found that hydrolics mallfunctioned after this, so we had to go from dark and cold again.

By themselves - SYS boards are OK, I like them but in the next project I think we'll have to think about bus-connected IO controllers, 26 USB devices in the cockpit is too much

Maybe your standards have been set too high ?

Well, the standards we've set are high, that is correct. But I don't see a connection between our high standards and the vendors' carelessness in the development and production.

[Matt Olieman]

Seems this is going on just for the sake of argument. Too bad, I thought some good points were made. Would of welcomed FDS pics too.

Somewhere along the line this topic has to stop. We all know Engravity and FDS has good products. I have my preferences and you (anybody else) have yours. Let's accept that and be final with it.

If you're not satisfied what a vendor has to offer, build it yourself, many builders have done that.

Matt Olieman

[dnoize]

Stef,

Based on the words of the lines pilots and their trainers. There are no green digits in a Boeing MCP, agree?

Agree, but neither does engravity's. They are white (see picture above). Appears blueish because of filters.
The real aircraft doesnt have 7-seg led digits at all, but lcs's with amberish or blue-ish backlight. ( airline option).

The status annunciation of the pushbuttons is green. At least with the ones used by KLM.

But to degrade the entire product to a 'toy' just because of color of digits ?

I'm not sure I've 100% understand you here, but no, we don't have MCP&EFIS only, we have 99% of the cabin.

I was referring to the engravity parts

I've found this recently and had no time to investigate it deeply, so it's my supposition, that because there is a bug in the FDS Glare driver, the solenoid logics is inverted, so when you move the A/T switch up, it's not fixed there, but it's only an issue. The problem is - when you switch it on (armed) - there is a really big current surge through the solenoid

that is unfortunate. But i'm sure this could be worked out? I believe the FDS stock MCP does not have a solenoid ? So this is a non stock item? Im sure this could have been worked out ?

Well, the standards we've set are high, that is correct. But I don't see a connection between our high standards and the vendors' carelessness in the development and production.

what i was trying to say that there is a difference between real parts that cost millions and budget sims that cost 100K

[Melnato]

Thank you Stef...totally agree...been biting my tongue too(hard).

Come on now...what do people expect for 0.01% of the cost of a CAE FFS...yes 1/100 of $20,000,000!!!
(that's my guess as to the value of the FBT in question of course).

A REAL MCP probably costs the same as Mr Kitsok's trainer...get a reality check.

I have photos of FDS's "new" MCP...its beautiful. It hasn't been officially released so Im in no position to upload pictures here. (gee I would too though)
So there was a bug in the A?T solenoid switch, that was sent out against all odds to meet the customers EXPO deadline...why wasn't that mentioned...? It will be fixed.

Everybody knows Im an FDS man...but I never rubbish other companies...never. Every vendor had there place in this world, and thats really cool.

Matt, I respect you and this Forum, I ...we... all get a lot out of Mycockpit...but I really think you should have stopped this public bashing earlier.

A lot can be said for Kitsoks maturity...or lack of it...

If FDS and Engravity made 100% real fidelity products...they would be called CAE and Thales...!!!...
Thank God theyre not quite there yet...because we would be flying with a CH Yoke and a 19"LCD screen....again.

Nat

[Matt Olieman]

Nat I agree, I should of stopped this a long time ago. My apologies.

THREAD CLOSED

Matt Olieman