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  1. #11
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    Ian,
    You build some really cool "stuff".
    That's all I have to say.
    John

  2. #12
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    Hi John,

    Thanks.... hope the site has been of use to you.

  3. #13
    300+ Forum Addict nax228's Avatar
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    Re: DIY Force Feedback Yoke

    Has anyone made a good yoke (dual) setup with this solution now?
    Looks very interesting.

  4. #14
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    Re: DIY Force Feedback Yoke

    I don't think so nax228, I never quite solved the force smoothness problem to my satisfaction with the low cost motor options.

    The flight column version - http://buggies.builtforfun.co.uk/Sim...k-column-1.php does better with more expensive motors, but I'm not convinced its good enough to justify the cost of the motors. I've not completely given up and have worked up a +/- 9V analog output card which could be used with the control loader software here - http://buggies.builtforfun.co.uk/Sim/CL_Software.php This might be of interest to anyone who has commercial servo amplifiers lying about which need +/- 10V type control inputs....

    Roland has a neat "passive" FFB yoke design, but I'm not sure if he's posted details of it...

    Ian

  5. #15
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    Re: DIY Force Feedback Yoke

    Hi All,

    Never give up!

    Finally solved the force smoothness issue, by following the commercial builders' approach (and similar to Leo's approach on his FFB steering wheel) and used brushless motors. The force feel of this most recent FFB yoke is quite good I think - and using lower cost BLDC motors the brushless route isn't as expensive as I thought it would be. I had to develop the brushless motor drivers for myself however because the commercial ones that are good enough are too expensive.

    Here's a page with some movie clips of the test yoke in operation.

    http://buggies.builtforfun.co.uk/Sim/FFB-yoke-2.php

    ...and there are more details on page 1

    http://buggies.builtforfun.co.uk/Sim/FFB-yoke-1.php

    Pardon the unenclosed appearance but if it was built into a cockpit the structure would be hidden.

    It's really nice to use - the control stiffness varies with airspeed and goes completely when the aircraft is stationary, trimming allows the controls to be balanced at any position, engine and runway vibrations can be added as can shaking on stall. Lots of possibilities for effects and adjustments.

    Interesting possibility is applicability on FFB rudders - the BLDC motor should be powerful enough with a bit of extra gearing.

    Ian

  6. #16
    75+ Posting Member Leo Bodnar's Avatar
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    Re: DIY Force Feedback Yoke

    Terrific job, Ian! It's really nice to see fresh designs like yours developing over time.
    Do you calculate the control surfaces forces yourself or FS have some sort of suggestion of what they might be?

    P.S. Sorry, I have missed the BFF Control Loader description. But wouldn't FS have to do it internally as well to use for FFB output to joysticks?

  7. #17
    500+ This must be a daytime job Ronson2k9's Avatar
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    Re: DIY Force Feedback Yoke

    Looks very cool. Great work. Doesn't 'look' to complex but I'm sure it's that easy a build. Would love to take it on some time.
    Up Up and away in my beautiful my beautiful - Amphibian

  8. #18
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    Re: DIY Force Feedback Yoke

    Quote Originally Posted by Leo Bodnar View Post
    Do you calculate the control surfaces forces yourself or FS have some sort of suggestion of what they might be?

    P.S. Sorry, I have missed the BFF Control Loader description. But wouldn't FS have to do it internally as well to use for FFB output to joysticks?
    Hi Leo,

    I don't use FS's internal FFB output - I need to have full control over the forces, so I calculate them myself. The CL software uses the actual displacements of the yoke (as reported via your 12bit card) as its input of control surface movement. At the same time FS is using the same yoke movement as its input. I extract from FS only the additional data that is needed for the force calculations, eg airspeed, on-ground status, load affecting accelerations, engine speed etc etc.

    Not using FS's FFB ouputs also allows the system to be more easily ported to other sims through some modest code changes - ie the yoke also works with X-Plane using the CL software force calculations. I guess it would also be portable if conventional FFB outputs were used but it would be more difficult then to control the force calcs.

    ...does this answer your question, or have I misunderstood?

    Ian
    Last edited by IanH1960; 03-29-2011 at 05:30 AM. Reason: added a bit of clarification..

  9. #19
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    Re: DIY Force Feedback Yoke

    Ian, this is extremely cool. I never ceased to be amazed by the ingenuity of people in this community!

    NH

  10. #20
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    Re: 737 dual yokes

    Hi Ian,
    Nice to see you cracked it. Guess i will have to build this to go with my Motion table of yours.
    Thanks for the update.
    Les

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