SIOC Pre compiler

[mounty]

I think it would be a great idea. I do not understand any of the SIOC language or the explanations that Nico has written. If you are some sort of computer programmer it all makes sense. I am not and none of it makes sense to me. So anything that simplifies programming would be a plus!

Rob

[kiek]

I think it would be a great idea. I do not understand any of the SIOC language or the explanations that Nico has written. If you are some sort of computer programmer it all makes sense. I am not and none of it makes sense to me. So anything that simplifies programming would be a plus!

Rob

I'm sorry my examples dit not help you.

I'm afraid that if one does not understand my SIOC examples one will certainly not be able to work with the suggested SIOC pre compiler tool.

In that tool you abstract from the syntax details, but you cannot abstract from the underlying SIOC semantics. If you do not understand these semantics your lost I'm afraid.

Nico

[pdpo]

Hi all,

I too found this is a great idea, about 2 years ago, so I have done it already.
However, since this was just for myself I have written some kind of preprocessor
in TCLTK script. Since it was just a tool for me to use i have not made this extensive, meaning that it works with fixed filenames and locations so a change in that needs to be updated in the code itself. It wasnt made for distribution, for being user friendly.
However, a precompiler like I made will not make the syntax of SIOC easier, that remains the same.
It only allows to define all the inputs and outputs in the beginning of the script and work troughout the script
with names. So if I reallocate some inputs to another mastercard, I do not need to look through the sioc code
for the places I used it, just modify the defines and compile.
Below the defines you write your sioc code as usual but with only the CONST_name as references to any
input, output or display. In the SIOC code you give each var a name, the var numbers you give dont matter since when going through the preprocessor it will assign var numbers incrementally by itself.
Syntax coloring is provided by several editors. Example UEDIT (ultraedit) allows to build your own list of names to be colored in different colors.
Intellisense ... dont have that...
Someone willing to write a full blown application which is stable and which is tested for a bigger community you can always get my tclscript as an example.
I agree to with Niko, if you dont understand the examples in his site then you probably miss some explanation
about how SIOC works. Ones you get the clue about SIOC its pretty straightforward and easy to understand.
However, I do not agree with him saying that if you dont write SIOC with txt editor, use the GUI. I find the GUI
very difficult to work with and find the txt editor version much more simple.
Just take some example scripts, like Niko provides or with the examples in the download of SIOC. Take a script,
analyse it and try to understand. If you dont understand how it should work, post the part you dont understand here and just ask explanation.

Greetz Peter

[ian@737ng.co.uk]

first thing i have to say is give the guy a break. what he is trying to achieve from what i understand is a simpler way of assembling and being able to read scripts.
at the end of the day, if SIOC was the 'be all and end all' and easy to use and understand, we would all be using it, right? but it isn't and we're not. it's just another option for
cockpit builders to consider.
with respect, what nico doesn't take into consideration is that we all have different skills and talents. some of us are computer 'whizzkids' and some us can make parts for a watch or craft wood into a work of art. we are engineers, carpenters and truck drivers. we're not all computer programmers or have been educated in writing programming.
there is so little documentation and 'from the ground up' tutorials for SIOC that a lot of people (including me) look at it and decide it would be easier to learn chinese. i gave my OC boards away after ripping my hair out for three months.
so, my slant on it is anything that can make the use of SIOC easier to understand and get into has got to be worth the effort.
anybody want to write a 'from downloading the program to getting it to do something' tutorial that we can understand?

good luck chris, soldier on..... regards ... ian

[fordgt40]

Ian

You just beat me to it! Only good can come out of this by helping and encouraging people to take the first steps.

Quote from Nico

"Hi guys, its 2009 now (!), global variables should be avoided in programming as much as possible, it is considered bad practise nowadays..."

I like being passe, it comforts me! In any event surely SIOC has "global" variables with local variables limited to only three within a "function".

Keep at it Chris

Regards

David

[kiek]

Hi David,

You forgot to copy the smiley with that statement.

In SIOC every variable is global, so you can not even put them in the beginning of your program text only ...

Note that global variables is more an issue in procedural programming languages, such as Pascal, Basic, C, C++ ...
SIOC is not a procedural language but an event based scripting language.

@all
If somebody wants to make a pre -compiler, ok, fine, go ahead, no problem with me, it might benefit some people. I only wanted to warn that I have some doubt about its success, you better spent your time learning SIOC,

Nico

[fordgt40]

Nico

Sorry

+ one for luck

Regards

David

[Kennair]

I think this is a highly commendable idea and would love to see something that would put SIOC coding into laymen language. The main bug with SIOC and all OC related hardware and software is adequate instructional information. I think if there were more explicit examples of coding it would help us all enormously, after all Manolo Valez is a very talented programmer, he just needs to impart some of that knowledge to his customers. I think Nico Kaan has done the best job of all enthusiastic users to impart that knowledge to the English speaking world but the fact remains that if you don't know the basics you have little hope of coding it.

My experience has been that once you have your hardware setup and the SIOC script written you very rarely revisit it, you just run it and fly it! I have been fortunate to gather scripts from other users including Nico and adapt them to my pit, however I would gladly have paid for this to be done from the outset as I don't consider myself a programmer nor have the inclination to be one. I would think that I'm not alone in this scenario. I would rather see a pool of available SIOC scripts that are available to OC users who could take what they need depending on the hardware they have and any specific tailoring could be done by the experts at a cost. This would give all users what they want but leave us non-programmers to get on with the business of building. This is the reason I have made available all my SIOC scripts for anyone to use, but you still need to know some of the basics in order to incorporate them into you pit.

I will be very interested to see how the precompiler works out though.

Ken.

[weyes]

I agree with Nico that a precompiler is not what people needs.

In my opinion it would be better to have some helper application for reading and writing SIOC scripts.
Coloured sysntax, correcteness checker, and so on.

This could be realized for example by writing a plugin for eclipse. It could caontain an editor abstracting the details of the language for non programmers but allowing to go in the low level details for the more experts in programming languages. The concept is that of having on file (the SIOC ASCII script for instance) and several views of it helping better understanding the meaning and the functioning of such a script.

[pdpo]

Hi all,

just something I wanted to add to this thread. Some time ago I saw a video of the cockpitbuilders gathering in Spain. Manuel Velez had there a session and was announcing
a new SIOC version which would be a visual approach. However, I got no idea where he
is standing with this. i'll send him an email and keep you posted.
Anyway, I stand by my point that I made in a previous post. I am working in software, so is Niko, so for us SIOC is probably easier then for some others. However, it is not that difficult so if you want to work with it, look at some scripts, try to understand, and if you cant figure it out, post the piece of code and I will describe in detail how this piece of coding works.
I agree with many, documentation in english on opencockpits is not that good and is not that much widespread. If I find time I'll try to write up an understandable document .. just give me some time.
Anyway, no need to toss away OC cards because you dont understand the programming....
learn it by asking questions about it. And the best way I think is to take a small script, try to understand and if you cant figure it out, post it and I 'll comment on the script what it does in detail.

the problem to deliver plug and play sioc scripts is that it is soo powerfull that one person want to do different things with it then someone else...
there are also so many different planes and software that can be supported?

Greetz Peter

PS : i am not affiliated to OC so my explanation might not be 100% how it is implemented in software but it is how I try to explain it.