Am i missing something; Backlighting panels I'm struggling

[RadarBob]

I have done some work on panels which may be of interest:

I looked an original 727 panel and found it was made of clear plexi coated with
layers of white follwed by black then grey.

I measured the paint layers at around 0.1mm each.

I have done a test piece using the same paint format, and then engraving through the grey and black to the white (matt).

The black layer, as well as preventing any bleed acts as a marker and helps to judge the depth of the cut through the grey.

I am using a Gravograph IM3 manual engraver, which when new is around
£2000 - I borrowed this one, but you can pick them up second hand for
reasonable cost I think - I have seen then on ebay for various prices from about £150 - £650.

I imagine a lot of engravers are switching to CNC so there may be a few around at the right price.

You could always sell it on afterwards - A lot of people by them for non-pro use - Engraving medals and trophies for clubs and so on

I haven't actually finished a panel proper yet, but the test piece worked fine,
and I have an 737NG Engine Start in progress - So I'll let you know how it goes.

I imagine getting the paint thickness correct and even will be tricky - And
of course you have to get the engraving exactly right first time

Best Regards,

Rob

[RadarBob]

Another solution to this may come from the signwriting trade:

Signwriters use self adhesive vinyl sheet (made by 3M and the like) for making
back illuminated signs and vehicle logos.

They use CAD cutting machines - A bit like a printer/plotter only with a very fine knife instead of a printhead.

The machine could cut out the panel legend from grey vinyl which could then be stuck onto white acrylic.

One could also quite easily do the two colour (light grey) panels this way.
- Which I haven't yet worked out how to do using the paint and manual engrave method.

Might have to compromise a bit on the colours, but there are a few vinyl makers, so should be able to get one somewhere near.

The vinyl is relatively inexpensive, and if someone (maybe in collaboration with a signwriter) wanted to take this on as a commercial venture and sell sets of panel stickers, then I believe the cost should reduce to only a few
pounds per panel.

I forgot to mention in my previous wrt the manual engrave method:

Gravograph also make a material called Gravoply, which you may be familiar with from industrial type labelling - It is a two colour/two layer material whereby the top colour is engraved through to reveal the lower colour - They make it in a matt grey top layer with white below and in an overall thickness of 0.8mm. I have a sample here which I haven't yet tested, but I believe it will let enough light through to allow backlighting.

The grey is a reasonable approximation to Boeing colours.

Some engraving supplies retailers will also make templates for manual engraving machines to your design - So you could get them made for the leader lines to switches, the circles around them and so on - Around £100 depending on complexity and material (brass/acrylic).

Best Regards,

Rob

[autocadplease]

If you use blacklight wouldn't the FAA be searching your pit for the bong?

LOL
No, but maybe the UV light will help my baldspot grow some hair!

[AndyT]

I thought of using blacklight some time ago and have done a couple of tests.

Make sure the panel is printed with bright white paint for the lettering. Use a long tube UV (black light) which mounts up under the glareshield. Place a mirroe above it so that all the light is directed back down onto your panel.
For best results, do not aim it directly at your panel, aim it at the floor or you will get a blueish glow on the upper half of your MIP.

The whole setup cost me about $40 to build. No holes to drill for backlighting and it also gives me all the cockpit lighting I need for my charts and such. They light up for me. No flashlight needed.

[Efe Cem Elci]

Pics Andy?

[Michael Carter]

I've only built one lighted panel and it's rather primitive. It's still in use though and works fine.

I used clear acrylic sheet and cut two panels of the correct size out of this. I also cut a .009 sheet of white sheet stock plastic the same size. After locating all of the holes and drilling them out through all three pieces I started to route out channels in the back piece of clear acrylic.

The channels hold tiny grain-of-wheat bulbs all wired in parallel and located in front of the lettering. This is pretty delicate work, but not unlike the original panels made by companies such as Spectra-Lux as OEM for Boeing.

The panels are sandwiched together with the white .009 sheet between the two thicker panels.

Where it differs from Boeing panels is in the face of the lightplate. I drew up three full sized panels on the computer and printed two out in black and the third in Boeing Gray. I used a spray adhesive to bond them together and to the front of the panel and tested for light leakage. After painting the edge of the panel it looked fine.

The channels are filled in with an RTV adhesive and leveled so it can be removed to replace any burned out bulbs.

[Geremy Britton]

Hi all, Thanks for all your replies! I have been doing reasearch and decided the suggestion autocadplease put forward to use UV is what i'm going to try next.

On the internet there are some very strong UV reactive paints in cold white and warm yellow. And best of all they don't need to be 'recharged' with daylight as long as the UV light is on the paint will glow. Therefore i can apply this OVER my current white lettering that isn't backlit. In normal light it is invisible but when the UV light is switched on (Nightflight) then the paint will glow OVER the lettering where i have applied it over each letter etc. to give the required effect.

The paint is only around £5 GBP per 300ml bottle and it doesn't require drilling, acrylic, CNC, Printing, or anything. And i can simply add it to the panels i already have also on my pedestal.

Just need 1 or 2 UV lights which i'll be able to grab cheap. They even do UV led's for the smaller areas.

I can't convey my thanks enough for everyones help and support in this, and this has ultimately led to an idea which without you people i would have still been scrathing my head over.

So i'll buy the paint in the next couple of weeks. And test it on some MDF and Clear Acrylic i have spare and i'll see the results. I can't wait!

Of course i'll post pictures, as it might be a new, cheap, revolutionary backlighting method.

My sincere thanks goes out to everyone that has posted. This is why MC.org was made!



Cheers!

[AndyT]

Sorry Efe, That was my older sim which has since been canabalized for the newer one which has now been canabalized for the next newer one....

[Geremy Britton]

Right i've been testing. The idea of UV will only be successful on the MIP as if UV rays are free in the sim that means the white projector, screen and my shirt are going to be UV reactive too. So if the rays are directed onto the mip we shoud be okay. The question now stands for the overhead panel.

I've just been having a look through Andy T's tutorial in the downloads section and it looks very inspiring. Though i wouldn't want black boxes around all words and letters.

I've come up with the idea of printing a black version a couple of times onto clear see through plastic (The OHP stuff) And then a grey version on the top. That way we keep the panels grey and just line up the light areas for it to pass through between the 3 sheets. Then of course sticking it onto plexi and mounting.

My question is though. wHat things are people using to backlight. I do have some EL wire though i don't know if that's bright enough for the job.

It's also more difficult because the overhead is obviously very close to the top of the sim roof so there is no long throw distance for light like there could be on the MIP.

So what are people using for this?

Again wacky ideas, thoughs are always welcome to investigate.

Thanks all ..........

[Spatate]

http://lumenlab.com/estore/product.p...cat=272&page=1

for all interested in home CNC...

cheap small emough for us... and practical!