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  1. #1
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    peterkwu's Avatar
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    Three projector setup... where to start

    Hi all,

    I've read a fair amount here but I'm still wondering where to begin.

    I'm building a 737NG sim in a spare bedroom and starting to think about outside visualization. The room is 17 feet long x 10.5 feet wide. On one of the 17 foot sides there are floor to ceiling windows with a 2 foot wide column in the middle. The door into the room is directly opposite the column between the windows on the other 17 foot wall. There are blackout shades on the windows that work fairly well. The good news is that the ceiling in the room is 10 feet high.

    My sim hardware is mostly 100% scale, mostly purchased from CockpitSonic. I plan to purchase a base and flight controls from Northern Flight Sim. The cockpit shell I'm not so sure about, it may come from one of the vendors or I may build it myself. I will be looking to constrain the vertical height to as little as possible.

    This is a 2 pilot setup, so I am thinking that a three projector setup is the best way to go with a curved screen wrapping 150-180 degrees around. I plan to spring for an Immersaview curved screen and Sol7 software.

    My question is what projectors will provide the best results? I figure about a ten foot throw for each, but I might need a lot of keystone correction as the projectors will be ceiling mounted. I might also wind up with shorter throws if the shell is so high that the projectors have to be mounted closer to the screen to have the beams clear the top of the shell.

    So I'm wondering what projector specs will be most important. HDMI connectors? How many lumens? 1080p? I'm willing to spend up to $1500 US per projector.

    Peter

  2. #2
    500+ This must be a daytime job BHawthorne's Avatar
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    I'm not too hot on the idea of 16:9 or 16:10 projectors because of the required throw distance. Keep in mind that 3X 1080p is ALOT of pixels to push. More pixels means more in-game stuttering and oddities when the computer can't handle the rendering workload. Also if you go 3x 1080p you can't use a Matrox TH2G. That's outside the max resolution usable by the TH2G. I have a hard time justifying 1080p cost vs. 720p or 1280x1024 projector costs.

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  4. #3
    300+ Forum Addict oal331's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peterkwu View Post
    So I'm wondering what projector specs will be most important. HDMI connectors? How many lumens? 1080p? I'm willing to spend up to $1500 US per projector.

    Peter
    I also reading, asking, searching for the same but i believe that outside view, does not need high detail (1080p), as needs an inside view, where we want detail in gauge's readings etc.

    Some years ago, i have visited a friend's cockpit, having 800X600 projector and i had no problem
    Today, we can find very good projectors 1024x768, for 500-650euros, having 2000Ansi and 2000contrast. From all that i'm reading, these 2 values giving a very good result in our home cockpit, based inside a room and not outside direct to sun light.
    You can find more useful information in many many previous posts here and about projectors visit this site : http://www.projectorcentral.com/

    Regards

    Eddie Armaos
    Athens-Greece

  5. #4
    500+ This must be a daytime job BHawthorne's Avatar
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    I believe that short throw and high lumens will be the purchase points. I would recommend against 1080p projectors. The money can be spent on so much better parts in the sim. You will get a high immersion factor regardless of what projector you use. Depending upon your design, I'd suggest just 2 projectors and horizontal-span mode in windows xp. That'll save you the cost of 1 projector and $300 on the TH2G. That could save you over $1000 in many cases. The gameplay on 3x 1080p will simply not be fluid and smooth. 2X 1280x1024/1024x768/1280x720 options will be much better.

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  7. #5
    300+ Forum Addict oal331's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BHawthorne View Post
    I believe that short throw and high lumens will be the purchase points. I would recommend against 1080p projectors.
    Hi,

    i found a BenQ Short Throw projector, the MP-771 model.
    This one has 3000 Ansi Lumens, 1024X768 resolution and 2000:1 contrast ratio. The only problem, is that does not have ZOOM
    and Keystone correction (edit 19/1/2009. it has keystone)
    .
    Of course, is more expensive than simple 1024X768 projectors.
    What do you think about it?


    Quote Originally Posted by BHawthorne View Post
    I'd suggest just 2 projectors and horizontal-span mode in windows xp. That'll save you the cost of 1 projector and $300 on the TH2G. That could save you over $1000 in many cases. The gameplay on 3x 1080p will simply not be fluid and smooth. 2X 1280x1024/1024x768/1280x720 options will be much better.
    What about the picture quality and captain's feeling, seating in front of these 2 projectors? How you made the view setup in Fs to give you a better feeling of surround? It's one big view, in zoom-out? Have you the view extended to left and right?

    regards

    Eddie
    Last edited by oal331; 01-19-2009 at 01:33 PM. Reason: Keystone correction
    Eddie Armaos
    Athens-Greece


    [

  8. #6
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    Video of my projector setup

    Hey everybody,

    Thanks for your advice, I decided to start with an Optoma 525ST ultra short throw projector. Not cheap, but I have a very bright room, and so I wanted this to be a high quality projector. It has 2500 ANSI lumens and 2500:1 contrast ratio. It is mounted on the ceiling a mere 6 feet from the wall onto which it projects an image about 10 feet wide. The ceiling mount is from Perfect Mounts in Canada.

    See the video at YouTube for a demonstration:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnJLL60RgJA

    Peter

  9. #7
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    3 projector screen - distributor/manufacturer

    Hi Folks
    (Peter if you are still considering a 3 projector screen we would be pleased to quote you) We are a distributor / manufacturer of a specialised range of screens including curved screens. Click the link at the very bottom of this post.

    Just some comments on projection screens and the like for your sims. I am a specialist projection screen manufacturer and distributor, sim builder and have spent many years in the large screen biz and in recent years building our own simulation systems with the theme of "We put the reality into virtual reality".

    I want to open your eyes up to some new possibilities and for many folk challenge their basic understanding of projection screens. Most of you will be using white surfaces, or a grey paint etc and 2000 - 3000ansi and dark room. It is what many av companies will tell you to do and your own epxerience will tell you similar. However this is the completely wrong approach to projection and especially for simulation. The most crucial first aspect to any projection system is NOT the projector but the screen....absolutely and without question.

    Here I am not talking about whether a da-lite, draper etc is better than the other but rather a completely different approach using lens technology and principals. With this patented technology (250 world wide) you can use a 3000 ansi lumen projector in a vast range of well lit areas and still achieve PERFECT images without turning the lights off, or use a far lower light projector and still can far brighter, higher res images than using a projector 3x the cost. Most people do not realise that a white screen in a well lit room (say take your lounge tonite with all lights on that this screen) will discard up to 95% of the projector ansi lumen. A typical grey/white screen can only deliver a perfect image in the absence of environmental light, hence why you always need to turn the lights off. Our ICE screens do the opposite in many situations, lights on or off absolutely do not make any difference.

    Our motto is "The Magic is in the Screen" reinforces that your screen is the critical aspect of your display. I see some one asked about HDMI, resolution etc etc.... hear me out on this thought....
    Everyone is after the perfect largest image at the lowest cost in any application in the widest possible venues etc....
    so what do most do (maybe yourself included) ... look for the highest quality graphics card, then DVI, RGB or HDMI queries, then projector resolution, best projector, 1080P etc, best software for sim etc, which are all valid aspects to consider but in many ways they are secondary....because what happens after you've discussed and disected all these aspect and made your decisions... so as the light carrying your sim images leaves the last lens element of the projector you throw all that quality out the cockpit window and hope for the best by using a typical matt white screen, close weaved bed sheet etc....this is the error most make and very few understand how to resolve this...aprt from flicking the light switch believing this is the best way.

    The solution to all these issues is a range of very unique ICE brand screens, that we use exclusively with our simulators...currently we build Formula One cars (actual race cars that are also simulators). Our Lens Screen for example
    will increase any projector by a factor of 2000% in brightness, resolving ability of 2 million 2000:1 contrast, ambient light rejection, hues of 3D, suited for all 3D technologies. We have just launched our 2 Gain and 10 Gain Cylindrical Screens for the aviation and other simulation markets.

    I have attached some App Notes - please not the photos are all for real as I know the quality will challenge you "is this possible". Please feel free to go to www.digitaldaytime.com and you will discover alot of what we do in this area ...especially the download section and news. You can read about our Sim sde of the business here - www.simdeck.com and check out a pile of videos where we demo, talk about our screens and sim experiences etc.
    On our simdeck site there is a category where you can read what others say about our screens and sim experiences.

    If you go to www.slideshare.net/simdeck we have a informative slide show where you can see alot more info.

    As a small bonus for reading all the way to the end of this post here, I have included a bonus photo of an amazing World War 1 Aviation museum established by Peter Jackson and Richard Taylor. This scene is amazing in reality that recreates a British plane crashed into a tree and the German troops watch over the German pilot and his British counterpart have a gentlemanly conversation. The World Class Museum is in a small airstrip called Omaka just outside of Blenheim in New Zealand. Anyone interested in aviation, simulation will easily spend 4 hours here absorbing an incredible exhibition.

    If you would like to discuss on/off line over the phone please do not hesitate to touch base.
    Regards
    Kevin
    ICE AV Technology Ltd
    0064-9-414234

    PS Here is a link to our latest simulation display solution and have posted some pics in the vendor product section. http://www.box.net/shared/08e9ob86db
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Attached Files Attached Files

  10. #8
    500+ This must be a daytime job BHawthorne's Avatar
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    Sounds expensive...

  11. #9
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    Matt Olieman's Avatar
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    Normally we would remove SimDeck's post because it is considered advertising. We don't allow free advertising. Not fair to those who pay. Besides we need the revenue to operate this site

    Anyway, I left it on because, it's new product and unique and it was not being pushed to buy.

    Matt Olieman

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