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  1. #1
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    Autothrottle response

    Hi all!

    We have built a 737NG cockpit, using PM as the main software.
    We use the CPFlight MCP and EFIS (PRO versions).
    Eveyrthing is running on FS9 (FS2004)

    The complete sim is running relatively accurate, but for a few issues.

    The most critical is the next problem.
    If we are cruising on FL 200, with AP en AT engaged, at a certain speed, assume 220 kts, and we increase the IAS on the MCP to 270 kts, ome would expect the throttle to advance rapidly to full power.

    The same goes for altitude change. If we select altitude FL220 and press LVL CHG one would expect a rapid advance of the throttles.

    In both case this does not work. The throttles advances **VERY** slow to full power, taking minutes to get the required airspeed or energy to climb.

    The throttle we use is from CockpitSonic, and as Mathias says its levers only follow the simulator values.

    Just to be sure: we use all the latest versions of the software!

    Does anybody recognize this?

    Regards, Willem

  2. #2
    300+ Forum Addict AchillesP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wbraat View Post
    Hi all!

    We have built a 737NG cockpit, using PM as the main software.
    We use the CPFlight MCP and EFIS (PRO versions).
    Eveyrthing is running on FS9 (FS2004)

    The complete sim is running relatively accurate, but for a few issues.

    The most critical is the next problem.
    If we are cruising on FL 200, with AP en AT engaged, at a certain speed, assume 220 kts, and we increase the IAS on the MCP to 270 kts, ome would expect the throttle to advance rapidly to full power.

    The same goes for altitude change. If we select altitude FL220 and press LVL CHG one would expect a rapid advance of the throttles.

    In both case this does not work. The throttles advances **VERY** slow to full power, taking minutes to get the required airspeed or energy to climb.

    The throttle we use is from CockpitSonic, and as Mathias says its levers only follow the simulator values.

    Just to be sure: we use all the latest versions of the software!

    Does anybody recognize this?

    Regards, Willem
    Hi,

    Same unit, same problem. Also the driver stops responding and I have to restart my pc.
    With best regards,
    Achilles
    http://www.thefsps.com

  3. #3
    500+ This must be a daytime job
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    Usb

    Hey guys,

    I dont own this throtlle assy, but I'm just curious about the USB connection that you're using to connect this unit. Are you connecting straight to the PC USB port or are you using a hub? Also, is the PC matching the USB interface of the throttle assy...example is the pc and throttle both 1.0, 1.1 or 2.0 USB or are they mis-matched.

    I'm just guessing of course, but I've seen weird things happen while using hubs; both powered and non-powered, as well as using mis-matched USB versions . I hope this helps.

    John

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    300+ Forum Addict oal331's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AchillesP View Post
    Hi,

    Same unit, same problem. Also the driver stops responding and I have to restart my pc.
    Achilles, do you use also the CockpitSonic's throttle?
    Which offsets you are using to read the throttle's values?

    Eddie

  5. #5
    300+ Forum Addict AchillesP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oal331 View Post
    Achilles, do you use also the CockpitSonic's throttle?
    Which offsets you are using to read the throttle's values?

    Eddie
    Hi,

    Yes I use the cockpitsonic throttle. Offsets are reading from the driver of cockpitsonic. I have nothing to read.
    With best regards,
    Achilles
    http://www.thefsps.com

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    300+ Forum Addict oal331's Avatar
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    I don't know how Cockpitsonic's drivers are working, but maybe there is a way to program them, or check which offsets values servos are using to move the throttle's levers. Maybe a question to Cockpitsonic about it, or use another IO servo system.

    Anyone else with autothrottle servos here?


    Eddie

  7. #7
    Our new friend needs to reach 10 posts to get to the next flight level
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    Hi! All hardware is matched on speed, but I really do not believe the issue is with the CockpitSonic throttle. It merely mimics the AT in hardware position. I assume it might have something to do with PM MCP, which drives the AT. I have been looking into the settings file of the MCP, but to no avail.

    Also the CDU had a maintenance page (MAINT) which gets you to the A/T settings (bold are the actual values)

    SPD%<11000FT 20
    SPD%>11000FT 20
    THR LIMIT% 20
    LVL CHNG% 100
    MACH % 20

    THR SYNC OFF
    AUTOCOORD OFF
    FLARE AGL 40
    F/D < 200KT 50
    F/D > 200KT 20

    Anybody any idea on the settings for a 737NG?

    Regards, Willem

  8. #8
    300+ Forum Addict oal331's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wbraat View Post
    Hi! All hardware is matched on speed, but I really do not believe the issue is with the CockpitSonic throttle. It merely mimics the AT in hardware position. I assume it might have something to do with PM MCP, which drives the AT. I have been looking into the settings file of the MCP, but to no avail.

    Also the CDU had a maintenance page (MAINT) which gets you to the A/T settings (bold are the actual values)

    SPD%<11000FT 20
    SPD%>11000FT 20
    THR LIMIT% 20
    LVL CHNG% 100
    MACH % 20

    THR SYNC OFF
    AUTOCOORD OFF
    FLARE AGL 40
    F/D < 200KT 50
    F/D > 200KT 20

    Anybody any idea on the settings for a 737NG?

    Regards, Willem
    As i remember these PM's values have to do with how fast PM is respoding in diferent situations.

    Anyway, what you mean saying "All hardware is matched on speed" ?
    The servos have to read not the speed but propably the trottle's lever position or N1 or something similar

    Here are the Fsuipc's offsets for Engine1

    088C
    152
    ENGINE 1 values, as detailed below
    088C
    2
    Engine 1 Throttle lever, –4096 to +16384
    [Programs controlling throttle directly from user inputs should write to 089A instead if the input should be disconnectable via offset 310A (e.g. for auto-throttle management)]
    Ok
    Ok
    088E
    2
    Engine 1 Prop lever, –4096 to +16384
    Ok
    Ok
    0890
    2
    Engine 1 Mixture lever, 0 – 16384
    Ok
    Ok
    0892
    2
    Engine 1 Starter switch position (Magnetos),
    Jet/turbojet: 0=Off, 1=Start, 2=Gen
    Prop: 0=Off, 1=right, 2=Left, 3=Both, 4=Start
    Notes (for FS2K/CFS2):  Don‘t forget to switch fuel on to start (mixture to max). For FS2k type starting you need to set the ‗Start‘ value here and monitor the combustion flag (below). When that is set, change the starter switch to another position (Both or Gen). FS98 models start immediately but you should still adopt the
    Ok
    Ok
    same procedure.  The Engine addressed by writes to this and the equivalent Engine 2–4 offsets will become selected (see 0888 above). It needs to stay selected during engine start, which means you can only start engines in sequence, not together. The original selection is restored automatically, however—but only when the starter is ‗released‘ by writing a non-start value here. FS98 prop planes transposed to FS2000 have misbehaving Magneto/Starter switch controls (whether FSUIPC is installed or not). You can start engines okay, but don‘t expect to be able to select the Magnetos reliably.
    0894
    2
    Engine 1 combustion flag (TRUE if engine firing)
    Ok
    Ok
    0896
    2
    Engine 1 Jet N2 as 0 – 16384 (100%). This also appears to be the Turbine RPM % for proper helo models (and now also for the FS2004 Robinson model and derivatives)
    Ok
    Ok
    0898
    2
    Engine 1 Jet N1 as 0 – 16384 (100%), or Prop RPM (derive RPM by multiplying this value by the RPM Scaler (see 08C and dividing by 65536). Note that Prop RPM is signed and negative for counter-rotating propellers.
    In FS2004 this also now gives the Robinson model‘s RPM, when scaled by the RPM scaler.
    Ok
    Ok
    089A
    2
    Engine 1 Throttle lever, –4096 to +16384, same as 088C above except that values written here are treated like axis inputs and are disconnectable via offset 310A, and have the last written value obtainable from offset 3330
    Ok
    Ok
    08A0
    2
    Engine 1 Fuel Flow PPH SSL (pounds per hour, standardised to sea level). Don‘t know units, but it seems to match some gauges if divided by 128. Not maintained in all cases.
    Ok
    Ok
    08B2
    2
    Engine 1 Anti-Ice or Carb Heat switch (1=On)
    Ok
    Ok
    08B8
    2
    Engine 1 Oil temperature, 16384 = 140 C.
    Ok
    Ok
    08BA
    2
    Engine 1 Oil pressure, 16384 = 55 psi. Not that in some FS2000 aircraft (the B777) this can exceed the 16-bit capacity of this location. FSUIPC limits it to fit, i.e.65535 = 220 psi
    Ok
    Ok
    08BC
    2
    Engine 1 Pressure Ratio (where calculated): 16384 = 1.60
    Ok
    Ok
    08BE
    2
    Engine 1 EGT, 16384 = 860 C. [Note that for Props this value is not actually correct. For FS2004 at least you will get the correct value from 3B70. In FS2004 the value here has been derived by FSUIPC to be compatible with FS2002 et cetera]
    Ok
    Ok, but see text
    08C0
    2
    Engine 1 Manifold Pressure: Inches Hg * 1024
    Ok
    Ok
    08C8
    2
    Engine 1 RPM Scaler: For Props, use this to calculate RPM – see offset 0898
    Ok
    Ok
    08D0
    4
    Engine 1 Oil Quantity: 16384 = 100% On FS2000 FSUIPC usually has to derive this from a leakage value as it isn‘t provided directly.
    Ok
    Ok
    08D4
    4
    Engine 1 Vibration: 16384 = 5.0. This is a relative measure of amplitude from the sensors on the engine which when too high is an indication of a problem. The value at which you should be concerned varies according to aircraft and engine.
    Ok
    Ok
    08D8
    4
    Engine 1 Hydraulic pressure: appears to be 4*psi
    Ok
    Ok
    08DC
    4
    Engine 1 Hydraulic quantity: 16384 = 100%
    Ok
    Ok
    08E8
    8
    Engine 1 CHT, degrees F in double floating point (FLOAT64)
    Ok
    Ok
    08F0
    4
    Engine 1 Turbine temperature: degree C *16384, valid for FS2004 helo models
    Ok
    Ok
    08F4
    4
    Engine 1 Torque % (16384 = 100%), valid for FS2004 helo models
    Ok
    Ok
    08F8
    4
    Engine 1 Fuel pressure, psf (i.e. psi*144): not all aircraft files provide this, valid for FS2004 helo models.
    Ok?
    Ok
    08FC
    2?
    Engine 1 electrical load, possibly valid for FS2004 helo models.
    Ok?
    0900
    4
    Engine 1 Transmission oil pressure (psi * 16384): for helos
    Ok?
    Ok
    0904
    4
    Engine 1 Transmission oil temperature (degrees C * 16384): for helos
    Ok?
    Ok
    0908
    4
    Engine 1 Rotor RPM % (16384=100%): for helos
    Ok?
    Ok
    0918
    8
    Engine 1 Fuel Flow Pounds per Hour, as floating point double (FLOAT64)
    Ok
    Ok
    0920
    4
    Engine 1 Torque, in FLOAT32 format, probably in ft-lbs. (not jets)
    No
    Ok


    Can anyone change the way the throttle is programming, change from where to read and then control the movement ?

    One more question, if you don't have autothrottle to have servos working, is does the throttle working without problems? Is is smooth, ie moving from idle to full power is fast enough?
    How it works this, like usb joystick, or via writing offsets?

    Eddie

  9. #9
    300+ Forum Addict
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    Hi

    The problem will not be the hardware because it does only check the position where the Lever(s) should be and drive them. If the given postion rises or reduces slowly the hardware does as well.
    Regards
    Thomas

  10. #10
    300+ Forum Addict oal331's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Richter View Post
    Hi

    The problem will not be the hardware because it does only check the position where the Lever(s) should be and drive them. If the given postion rises or reduces slowly the hardware does as well.
    Hi Thomas, glad to see you again

    You are saying that the hardware is not the problem, so is the PM's software that has the slow reaction?
    If this is tue, the movement have to be also slow in graphics throttle movements in 3D panel, right?
    Do the values in CDU help for a better performace?

    regards

    Eddie

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