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  1. #1
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    Hi new member with a question

    Hi to all.

    Can I start by saying that I have very little knowledge of flight sims or flying.

    I am looking for help to a question

    I have been approached by I old friend with a business Idea for financial
    backing.


    I am not sure if it will work, while I understand that members of this forum may be building their own cockpits etc - Can you give me an opinion on this.

    The basic idea -

    To have a 737 0r 747 fixed fully working cockpit and the same for a light aircarft. This will not be a flight experience but the ability to use the sims
    on a regular basis with reduced fixed rates for both will include update scenery for number of airports etc.

    I am informed that the best option is to purchase all the equipment/sims pre made

    I have had search on the Internet and I am aware of a number of companies for this.

    Can anyone provide feedback on this.

    Is it a good Idea ?

    What kind of cost is the full sims going to be about ( so i can compare with what I am being told. )



    What kind of prices would you be willing to pay and for how long ?

    What would you want to see/have ?

    Let me ensure you that this is not going to turn into spam etc on this forum

    Any ideas or feedback welcome - Please pm me if you want to comment in private.

    Thanks

  2. #2
    2000+ Poster - Never Leaves the Sim Trevor Hale's Avatar
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    Hi there and Welcome to mycockpit.org

    Depending on the realism of the 737 that you would like to create, I would imagine, with commercial licenses for software, and the many new computer purchases you would require, also depending on the visual setup, I would be willing to bet that for a complete fixed base 737 trainer you might be able to do it for under 30 Grand.

    However, there will be a lot of assembly involved in that.

    If you are looking for a 100% assembled and working system, I Believe Cockpitsonic USA offers a turn Key solution with motion for 100K.

    Just my thoughts.

    Trev
    ________________________
    Trevor Hale

  3. #3
    1000+ Poster - Fantastic Contributor Jackpilot's Avatar
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    Pretty sure a lot of us toyed with this idea.
    My thoughts briefly;

    Was much easier to float before 911
    Real training= tons of redtape
    Market for real trainers already tapped by the few companies able to build a Turnkey sim.
    Amateurs and enthousiasts rarely have deep pockets.
    The cost of instructors has to be factored in too
    It could break-even but not much money to make on a sustantial investment.
    .

    Being positive....LOADS OF FUN doing it if you do not rely on it for bread and butter.
    My thoughts again, I maybe wrong.

    Cheers
    Jack
    Jackpilot
    B737-700 Posky
    FS9/P.Magenta
    without PMSystem

  4. #4
    New Member
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    Thank you both for your very quick feedback - I would like lots more from other members if possible - doesn't matter what the feedback is.

    Cheers

  5. #5
    300+ Forum Addict luisgordo's Avatar
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    I agree with Trevor: 25-30k at least for a 737, with pre-made assemblies.

    Can't tell for a light aircraft...
    Luis Gordo
    Instructor StationTM - www.iStationGordo.com

  6. #6
    500+ This must be a daytime job JBaymore's Avatar
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    eflyer,

    Welcome to MyCOckpits. I take it you are the "investment capital guy".

    I have looked into this also. As a simmer... it seems like a "dream deal'. Looks like that is exactly what it is. Just a dream.

    As far as asking how much we'd pay... this is the abslutely wrong audience to ask for that info. First we all have pits in development..... so while we might give it a go occasionally....we would not be steady supportive customers. Secondly, we are a concentrated selection of die hard flight simulation "crazys", not a statistically accurate market sample of potential users of a simulator. Your market does not include this level of "saturation" of interest by any means. The people you need ask are a selection of the general public.

    However, this is a GREAT place to ask about real world COSTS. We all have great experience with THAT aspect. And how much WORK it is to set up and maintain such an endeavor. And what typically goes wrong.

    For yucks, one day I "ran the numbers" in a basic form for a commercial establishment including such stuff as rent/lease, utilities, staffing, worker's comp ins., premises liability, equipment maintenence, advertising, and amortization of startup costs.

    One big thing to remember right off the top is that you CANNOT just use Microsoft Flight Simulator as the basis of a commercial simulator operation without striking a commercial deal with Microsoft. THAT is going to take a big chunk of ka-ching right there. And using certain software packages to power the gauges and avionics and such likely will also cost more than the retail hobby level of pricing. And you'll need to pay a few lawyers to make sure you get it all right.

    The stumbling block issue on the money is "utilization factor". Particularly if you don't go the "real" training route (which brings its own set of additional cost and headaches). I felt that you couldn't get eniough flight time per week on the sim to make it a "go".

    Basically you will easily be able to sell thosue flight hours evenings from about 5 PM to 11 PM, and Saturdays pretty much all day and Sundays up until maybe 8-9PM. The rest of the week will be a far harder sell (to the non-professional market) due to the demands of school, jobs, family, and so on. But you'll be paying all of your expenses on those other times too. So out of a full week, you can only "bank" at the MOST on consistently selling maybe 60 hours of flight time. At least at "full retail".

    Then it comes down to "market pricing". What is the LOCAL non-professional market willing and ABLE to pay regularly. You will get occasional people to travel to utilize this facility.....but not a lot of repeat business from them. Few will come from LA to Boston to fly you sim. And if they do once... you likely won;t see them again.

    So you are VERY dependent on the relatively local market. How big is the population of your target area? What is the demographic profile of the people? What is the average income? What type of activities do they already participate in? What activities are you competing against? Out of answering all of that type of study (by asking a sample of the market) ....... you'll get an idea of potential price per hour.

    Multiply that "retail price times 60 and you get a number. Compare that number to expenses and see if any is left over for ROI (return on investment).

    Hope these thoughts help. Everything changes when it goes from a hobby to a business. A "labor of love business" is an oxymoron.

    best,

    ..................john

  7. #7
    75+ Posting Member rt72's Avatar
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    If I was going to do it, I would be more general with my simulations. More like a game than a sim. There's a bigger market for stuff like that.
    There's someone here at the Mall of America who has a place full of car and aircraft sims that appears to do OK with it.

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