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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by cockpit737 View Post
    when I close both left wing tanks (low fuel) with crossfeed opened and both center tanks closed the fuel is going to the engines by both wing tanks... Thats the bad news... Unhabble to stop taking fuel from the left tank... (the lower one).
    I don't think you "close" them by switching the pumps off. after all the APU can draw fuel with no pumps on. What happens here in the circumstances you describe is simply that the fuel is drawn a lot slower from the tanks with the pumps off than from those with the pumps on. It takes a longish time, but eventually balance is achieved.

    I think there's still a suction effect drawing fuel from tanks despite pumps not being powered. that is all.

    Regards

    Pete

  2. #12
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    Thanks to both of you...
    Peter, when I did it I had a look at the fuel flow and it was showing identical FF from both sides. But to be sure I will try once moreand will pay more attention. I will let you know!
    What is very strange is those two situations i described previously.... This way I was abble to stop FF from one wing tank. But what a strange way to do that!
    - When center left pump OFF, center right pump ON, wing 1 both pumps OFF, and wing 2 both pumps ON, it takes fuel from center and wing 1...
    - When center left pump ON, center right pump OFF, wing 1 both pumps OFF, and wing 2 both pumps ON, it takes fuel from center and wing 2...
    I am sure it is possible to stop the FF from one side otherway!
    Thank you...
    PS: if it was too easy it would not be fun!!!!!!!!!!!

  3. #13
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    A bit of further information.
    Here is a diagram.

    http://www.mycockpit.org/photopost/s...php?photo=3225

    As you can see there are two seperate fuel lines. One for each engine.
    Remember that the centre fuel pumps provide fuel at a higher pressure than the wing pumps. The higher pressure fuel always wins. So if a centre pump is on the wing fuel cannot be used as it is at a lower pressure.

    When center left pump OFF, center right pump ON, wing 1 both pumps OFF, and wing 2 both pumps ON, it takes fuel from center and wing 1
    This makes sense. Look at the diagram. The right centre pump is providing higher pressure fuel to the right fuel line. This means the right wing pump fuel cannot be used. So the right engine takes fuel from the centre tank. The left fuel line has no pumps on so takes its fuel from the left wing tank (as Gravity fed fuel can only come from the wing tanks).

    When center left pump ON, center right pump OFF, wing 1 both pumps OFF, and wing 2 both pumps ON, it takes fuel from center and wing 2
    Again this makes sense. With the left centre pump on the left fuel line is being supplied with higher pressure fuel from the centre tank. The left tank fuel is not used as the centre tanks fuel is of higher pressure. The right fuel line is being supplied by the right tanks pressured fuel which is of higher pressure than the centre tank fuel (as the right centre tank pump is off).

    To effectively do a crossflow ballance you need to make the higher tank the one with the highest pressure fuel accross the whole system. This means having all other pumps off and the crossflow open.

    As for the APU. Yes it does take fuel from the left tank without the left tank fuel pumps being on. But it does use a fuel pump. It uses its own DC powered fuel pump in the left tank while it is starting up using the battery (as the battery is DC). There are no indications for this pump on the panel and so you will not know if it is working or not. When the APU has started it will turn on the left forward pump (or maybe left rear, but only one left fuel pump, I forget which) and turn off its DC pump. The APU cannot be gravity fed and needs its DC pump to start and then when its running it switches to the left forward AC pump.

    If you are still having problems try this. Start the engines. Open the crossflow valve. With fuel in the right tank empty the centre and the left tanks. If the left engine stops then it cannot get fuel from the right and so the crossflow valve isnt open. This will mean that FS isnt getting the crossflow possition from PM.

    Unfortunately I dont use PM so I cannot test this myself.

    Hope this helps.

  4. #14
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    Tom,
    Again, thank you...
    Your sketch makes it much easier to understand...
    So in this example...
    When center left pump OFF, center right pump ON, wing 1 both pumps OFF, and wing 2 both pumps ON, it takes fuel from center and wing 1
    This makes sense. Look at the diagram. The right centre pump is providing higher pressure fuel to the right fuel line. This means the right wing pump fuel cannot be used. So the right engine takes fuel from the centre tank. The left fuel line has no pumps on so takes its fuel from the left wing tank (as Gravity fed fuel can only come from the wing tanks).
    In this example I tought that as the crossfeed is opened the left engine should have take fuel from the center(the highter pressure). Why does it take fuel from wing 1 as crossfeed being opened it provides more pressure from center right than from gravity wing 1? If the crossfeed had been close I would understand, but as it is opened...!
    So this is the same reflection about the second example...
    Last, how do you explaine this...
    when center pumps OFF, wing 1 pumps OFF, and wing 2 pumps ON, it take fuel from both wing 1 and 2 same fuel flow with crossfeed opened...

    It should take fuel only from wing 2, no?
    Thank you again Tom, I promise I will do all my best to not ask you more....

  5. #15
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    Basic misunderstanding. Crossfeed feeds fuel to the other engine, not the other tank.

    From Continental's B737 Flight Operations Manual:

    FUEL CROSSFEED
    The engine fuel manifolds are interconnected by use of the crossfeed valve. The valve is DC motor-operated from the battery bus. The valve provides the means of directing fuel to both engines from any tank. Continued crossfeed use will result in a progressive fuel imbalance.

  6. #16
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    Hi Alan,
    Thank you for your help, but I already know that... I learned it here on this post... Like a lot of people I thought that in crossfeed you could transfer fuel from one tank to an other...! Now I understand better how this works...
    But... I have to undesrtand why this happens...
    "when center pumps OFF, wing 1 pumps OFF, and wing 2 pumps ON, it takes fuel from both wings 1 and 2, with same fuel flowand this, with crossfeed opened... "

  7. #17
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    Right. Something strange is happening here.

    My examples you quoted were with the Crossfeed closed. You are correct in you answers that with the crossfeed open in example one all fuel should be taken from the centre and in example two with the crossfeed open all fuel should come from the right tank.

    All this means that when PM shows the crossfeed open it really isnt open.
    If it was open then it would have worked as you described.

    Did you try my suggestion to check if the crossfeed valve is working? Put fuel in all tanks. Start both engines. Open the crossfeed. Empty the left and centre tanks. If the left engine stops then the crossfeed isnt opening as the left engine doesnt get fuel from the right fuel line. Check this and if it isnt working then PM isnt sending the position of the crossfeed to Flight Simulator.

  8. #18
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    Thumbs up

    Hi Tom,
    No I did not try as I did not have enought time in the last days... I would need 30 houres a day these time...
    But I promise I will try tonight.... Working or not I will let you know!
    Is there a way to know if PM is sending the command to FS? I can confirm that on the PMsystem software on the screen it is open (rotary in horizontal position).
    Thank you again Tom,

  9. #19
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    Hi Tom,
    I made tests and here are the results...
    Crosfeed open, both engines running...
    - 6 pumps on, when center tank becomes empty both engines stop!
    - center pumps off, when wing 1 has no more fuel it stops... do not take fuel from wing 2...!
    As you can see these are not very encouraging results... Do not know how to fix it! And I have no way to verify if FS receive the information from PM...
    If you have any idea what to check next please tell me!!!
    Otherway thank you again for your time you gave to me...

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boeing Skunk Works View Post
    The 737NG fuel distribution system sounds a lot like the 727 system.

    You cannot transfer fuel from any tank to any other tank except when on the ground during a gravity fueling operation from the wing tanks to the center tank.

    Normal configuration is tank-to-engine, except when the center tank has more fuel than the wing tanks can hold. Then, all three engines are fed from the center tank using the crossfeed valves and pumps until the center tank has as much fuel as the wing tanks. Then tank-to-engine feeding is done.
    In 737NG you can transfer fuel from one main tank to the other main tank but only up to the same level, not to or from the center tanks!
    It is as well just because of the imbalance when the APU takes fuel (left main tank) for longer time.
    Regards
    Thomas

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