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  1. #1
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    Frensnel lens collimation question?

    If I were to line up 4 screens around a cockpit shell, and use frensel lenses over each one, would I have a panoramic collimated view for one person? I realize the co-pilot would not, but would the captain?

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    2000+ Poster - Never Leaves the Sim Trevor Hale's Avatar
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    No.

    Because the Fresnel lense only works when you are directly in front of it. everything else would look like light, but you wouldn't be able to make anything out. it would all be blurry.
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    75+ Posting Member rt72's Avatar
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    Kind of. Although I think the result would be less than satisfactory.

    If the pro's could do this adequately with Fresnel lenses I think they would have done it already.

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    Yeah, I guessed so... Oh well, I suppose if the Sol7 thing works out it would be the best option until someone figures out how to manufacture a cheap projection collimator.

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    While not impossible, it's unlikely that you could make a workable, true collimated display with commonly available Fresnel lenses. There have been a number of professionals who have addressed the problem and been issued patents. (Check patents.google.com) However, each approach has had significant shortcomings, and what we see in commercial use today are mirror collimated systems.

    What you can do is use lenses to blend adjacent images together to boost the feeling of immersion.

    Several years ago people at Boeing developed a display system for fighter simulators based on Fresnel lenses. You can read about the technology on Rick Lee's site here: http://www.rickleephoto.com/mosaicfresnel.htm . The technology was spun off and formed the basis of Bugeye Technologies (http://www.bugeyetech.com/home.php).

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    2000+ Poster - Never Leaves the Sim Trevor Hale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike.Powell View Post
    While not impossible, it's unlikely that you could make a workable, true collimated display with commonly available Fresnel lenses. There have been a number of professionals who have addressed the problem and been issued patents. (Check patents.google.com) However, each approach has had significant shortcomings, and what we see in commercial use today are mirror collimated systems.

    What you can do is use lenses to blend adjacent images together to boost the feeling of immersion.

    Several years ago people at Boeing developed a display system for fighter simulators based on Fresnel lenses. You can read about the technology on Rick Lee's site here: http://www.rickleephoto.com/mosaicfresnel.htm . The technology was spun off and formed the basis of Bugeye Technologies (http://www.bugeyetech.com/home.php).
    Mike you are so knowledgeable.. I think you should consider writing a book.. Perhaps 2 LOL

    Great stuff buddy. Thanks for your input.
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    If there were such thing as 3d glasses that turned to regular clear lenses when you moved your line of site to certain portions of the cockpit (instruments, etc), monitored by a head tracker, could that possibly be a solution for a collimated display for home users?

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    In very general and vague terms, yes. Waffle, waffle. Let me explain.

    What you try to do is remove the 3D clues that correctly tell your visual cortex that the outside imagery is actually a 2D image 20 some inches from your eyes. Two key clues are the unconscious knowledge of the muscular tension focusing your eyes, and the tension pointing your eyes inward (you get more cross-eyed as you look at things closer to you).

    If you remove these clues your visual cortex downshifts and starts using secondary clues: if something known to be big looks small, it must be far away; if something moves in front of something else, it must be the closer of the two; and so on. So, although you're looking at a 2D image, you perceive it a 3D world viewed at a distance.

    Can you build an adaptive head-mounted optical system that defeats the appropriate 3D visual clues, and make a 3D world spring into existence? Well, some military simulators have a systems that does. It's a head mounted display with a head tracker. The HMD displays imagery of the outside scenery with the optical focus set at infinity so this portion of the display is "collimated". The HMD also allows the wearer to directly view the cabin interior without the collimation optics. The head tracker moves the collimated imagery so, from the viewer perspective, it's always lined up with the window opening.

    When I first started writing this, I thought I was moving toward a long-winded "Yes, but not practical". But I wonder if we're not too far from this today. FSX lets you move the camera angle pretty easily, and there's TrackIR... You'd want to make the image line up with the sim's virtual window frame from the viewer's perspective. I'm sure other issues would surface, but looks like it could work.

    Sounds like an interesting project.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 737aqua View Post
    If I were to line up 4 screens around a cockpit shell, and use frensel lenses over each one, would I have a panoramic collimated view for one person? I realize the co-pilot would not, but would the captain?
    Yes - BUT only when you sit exactly in focus!
    That is impossible, even the slightest movement of your head would distort the view.

    I have a friend who did try that out with 4 screens - no success at all.

    Bjorn

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    500+ This must be a daytime job mauriceb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike.Powell View Post

    Several years ago people at Boeing developed a display system for fighter simulators based on Fresnel lenses. You can read about the technology on Rick Lee's site here: http://www.rickleephoto.com/mosaicfresnel.htm . The technology was spun off and formed the basis of Bugeye Technologies (http://www.bugeyetech.com/home.php).
    I just love this quote from Rick Lees homepage:

    "A quick note about Microsoft FS 2002. WOW. Holy cow.... this is the FS we've always wanted. Graphic accellerator cards have finally advanced to the point that home simulation is stunningly sophiticated. Get a GeForce3 video card and get FS2002. The results are mind boggling. "

    We are indeed fortunate and one can only dream about how things will be like in another 10 years or so.

    Maurice

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