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  1. #1
    150+ Forum Groupie michelmvd's Avatar
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    Frorum censorship - a few reflections

    Once again some threads with users remarks and customers reflections regarding the PM software has been closed or banned from this forum by some of the moderators.
    It is as we are still living in the 18the century. In the days of internet and other worldwide communication it is very stupid to behave this way, as in my opinion this is very counter productive. By doing so, readers will become even more alarmed or looking elsewhere for the truth. You can't stop the internet and people to communicate in order to find the correct informations or reviewing a product!! I always thought that in the western world freedom of speech is one very important democratic value.

    We all know by now that there are serious problems in the PM software regarding several important issues and type specific logic. We all have been informed they are working on it. This now for more than a year.
    It is also very well noticed that communication with the company isn't anymore what it was in the past. No offical support forum anymore and very limited and selective answers on support emails. This are simply facts which can't be ignored and a very regretable way of behavior to the hobby clients.

    But especially to 737aqua and Chris1960 ... (I hope you will be able to read this and moderators will not remove it under whatever pressure. )

    I fully understand your feelings and your concerns.
    Every serious flightsimmer knows that these days the logics of the real airliners are fully simulated in the extremly well programmed addon products of PMDG.
    The B747-400 aircraft for exemple is so well programmed that it can and is be used for pre- and defriefing purpose in real life groundschools. VNAV / LNAV / FLCH/ Autoland etc, etc are working perfectly and all others logics, as the very complex fuel logic, are there as their are in the real one or the leveld simulators. Even the air-dynamics of the flightmodel, engine performance etc, are very close. This for a fraction of the price of the real one and even PM software. To obtain that kind of realisme PMDG simply had to program it all by themself with a team of very high specialized programmers each in his domain. The research took more than one year. The FS2004 or FSX is in fact mostly used only for the enviromnent.

    The only fact is, IT IS ONLY USEABLE on a single workstation with the limited use of some hardware interfaces as the Engravity CDU or the Aerosoft MCP747. Until now there are no intentions to provide the necessary interface information to the cockpitbuilders in order to connect the program to their wonderful cockpits. I personally had very long talks with the PMDG responsable people. This is a matter of a commercial strategy.

    If this would be the case, we would have nearly the perfect sim. But this is still a dream.

    PM is about the only one for now, which is providing programs build with the spirit of using them in a multi pc / network operations enviromnent and interface it to real hardware. This is working super and brings our cockpits alive. Their programs also can be used for different types of aircraft in the Boeing series or Airbus.

    The big downsite of this is unfortunately that the specific aircraft logic is not their as it should be. To remain in the VNAV branche, for a B744 for exemple this is mostly already used according SOP's from the ground. LNAV and VNAV are armed before T/O already!! So here it is very important. VNAV behaves also rather different comparing with the B737 where is it less complex. This is only one exemple.

    The programmer (Enrico) is working already for years on this project and we are coming already from very far. In the past the collaboration with the cockpitbuilders was always excellent and he was open for suggestions and remarks regarding the other Boeing types.

    Nowadays (unfortunately for me as a B744 builder) PM is more focussed on the B737 and contacts with the company on the level of hobby-cockpitbuilders are very limited now. Support mails remains unanswered as I wrote in an other thread.

    But neverthess the software still remains unique in his kind and is at this very moment a must for a cockpitbuilder.


    B. Rgds

    Michel
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    Michel VANDAELE
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  2. #2
    2000+ Poster - Never Leaves the Sim Trevor Hale's Avatar
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    Michel.

    If you read my response to Chris, you will see, it is all clearly explained. He was not describing his experience, however was describing the "I have a friend that supposedly had this happen" This is considered Hearsay, and the commends were accusing the Vendor of Conspiracy.

    I apologize that you do not agree with this censorship, however. It is not your site to administer, and therefore I submit.

    That any Vendor will be protected from such attacks in OUR forums. Not just Project Magenta.

    Best regards,

    Trevor Hale
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  3. #3
    150+ Forum Groupie michelmvd's Avatar
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    Hi Trevor,
    It is of course your fully right to administer the site as you think you have to do it.
    My reflections weren't only regarding Chris, but about a long time noticed behavior regarding threads with remarks and operational critics regards PM.
    I fully understand your commercial interest and take fully notice of the ways of limitations MyCockpit is in, to inform the flight simulation world about vendors software or products.
    I also like to underline very clearly that I'm a client from the first hour of PM, so I know about the efforts Enrico did.
    B. Rgds
    Michel
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  4. #4
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    Unhappy ... more focus on the 737 ?

    Michel, perhaps - from your 744 builder condition - you might have thought that PM is now more focused on the 737.

    Doesn't seem so, IMHO of one 737 builder.

    I guess there's not one single PM type, the 737 included, that gets the PMDG-747-like level of fidelity ...

    There must be something else drawing their attention, we haven't seen an update for quite a long time, compared to what we were used to get from Enrico & co, notwithstanding the addition of a last valid member for the Team, that's Thomas.

    I sometimes wish they picked up one single model, and dedicate 100 % of their efforts to it !

    Alas, this is not the case.
    Last edited by eudoniga; 05-19-2008 at 10:25 AM. Reason: syntax error !
    Happy landings and always three greens !!

    Eu

  5. #5
    Tim
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    In my opinion, there ARE posts that need censoring.

    The ones in which authors blatantly use other keyboard characters to spell out, once again, in my opinion, profanity.

    Not sure why this site does not have filters to remove such written nonsense.

  6. #6
    2000+ Poster - Never Leaves the Sim Trevor Hale's Avatar
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    Looks like we have someone here, that likes to bring up Month old threads. I do not see what your point was in resurrecting it, and therefore It will be locked.

    Tim, as for you. I gather you did not feel our PRIVATE Conversation was suitable enough, and you have now decided to take your opinions PUBLIC.

    No Worries,

    As I stated in my Private Post to you. we do not allow anything that is not able to be seen on Prime Time Television. Your negative attitude towards this site and it's posts is cancerous, and it will not be tolerated.

    Like I told you in PRIVATE. If you are unhappy with what you read. you have 2 options.

    Best regards,

    Trev.
    Last edited by Trevor Hale; 05-19-2008 at 02:20 PM.
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  7. #7
    500+ This must be a daytime job mauriceb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim View Post
    In my opinion, there ARE posts that need censoring.

    The ones in which authors blatantly use other keyboard characters to spell out, once again, in my opinion, profanity.

    Not sure why this site does not have filters to remove such written nonsense.
    My answer to that question would be that the next step would logically be thought control. What if the writer left a blank space instead of 'other keyboard characters'. Would you censor that as well because you know what he was really thinking? Do you always know what the .... I'm thinking? What if I was only saying... Do you always know what the heck I'm thinking? is 'heck' a profanity to you? I'm sure it must be to someone in this world.

    If the tone of a post offends you, why not just ignore it and skip to the next one. Someone is always bound to be offended by something at some point. If you censored everything that anybody anywhere and at any time finds offensive in some way, shape or form, then freedom & free speech would be a thing of the past. The idea of censorship may be attractive in some ways, but censorship can be abused as well.

    Some things do need to be censored and I think the forum moderators are quite reasonable and not drastic when it comes to censoring posts. I don't always agree with them, but I find this forum extremely civilized as compared to many other forums.

    Maurice