Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 15
  1. #1
    10+ Posting Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    London UK and Uzes France
    Posts
    14
    Contribute If you enjoy reading the
    content here, click the below
    image to support MyCockpit site.
    Click Here To Contribute To Our Site

    Best way to mechanically achieve automated thrust levers?

    Hi guys,

    I have been thinking about the best way to achieve automated throttles in the most space efficient manner.

    I have an audio and music background, and it occured to me that rather than using a potentiometer AND a servo, would it not be better to use something like a motorised fader, as found on mixing consoles? The Penny & Giles range is popular in the audio world.

    This would achieve a) the sensing of position and b) a mechanism to provide movement back to the lever, as well as c) being in linear form (which would be useful for situations where more than 2 levers were used).

    A method for converting linear to rotary would have to be devised, but that would be relatively simple to achieve.

    Have these ever been used by anyone? Are there any major drawbacks I am missing?

    Thanks!

    Martin

  2. #2
    MyCockpit Support Staff


    Westozy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia
    Posts
    1,493
    Contribute If you enjoy reading the
    content here, click the below
    image to support MyCockpit site.
    Click Here To Contribute To Our Site

    Audio faders are generally logarithmic and not linear. It's better to have linear pots on FS throttles or you might end up with a lever that gives say 0-20% N1 at the halfway mark and 20-100% N1 in the second half of the lever movement - something to consider!

    Gwyn

    737NG using Prosim737, Immersive Calibration Pro, Aerosim Solutions motorized TQ & cockpit hardware, CP Flight MCP & FDS SYS1X, SYS2X & SYS4X, FDS PRO FMCs, AFDS units & Glarewings, Matrix Orbital ELEC display, Pokeys Landing & Cruise alt display, Buttkicker Gamers, 3 x BenqMW811ST projectors with a Matrox Th2Go
    http://www.aerosimsolutions.com.au
    Supporter of MyCockpit.org, please join me in donating!!!

  3. #3
    2000+ Poster - Never Leaves the Sim Michael Carter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Southern Illinois, USA
    Posts
    3,147
    Contribute If you enjoy reading the
    content here, click the below
    image to support MyCockpit site.
    Click Here To Contribute To Our Site

    In addition to what Gwyn said, and audio servos or pot motors would probably not provide enough torque unless you used enough gearing to move the weight and friction of the throttles.
    Boeing Skunk Works
    Remember...140, 250, and REALLY FAST!

    We don't need no stinkin' ETOPS!



    Powered by FS9 & BOEING

  4. #4
    10+ Posting Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    London UK and Uzes France
    Posts
    14
    Contribute If you enjoy reading the
    content here, click the below
    image to support MyCockpit site.
    Click Here To Contribute To Our Site

    Thanks guys - I was aware of the linear vs log scales (Penny and Giles make a range of linear pots) but had not thought about the torque issue.

    On almost the same subject, I have been considering how to best make the reverse thrust levers work. I have the Boeing 777 Training Manual, which has some fantastic cutaways of the quadrant system, and it appears that the RT levers are mechanically connected via rods to the TLA resolvers.

    My feeling is that this could be "got around" by using miniature linear pots *in* the throttle assembly (ie, as the first connecting rod). One can, for a reasonable price, get mini linear pots around 80mm retracted, which should work nicely. I'm going to do some drawings to see if it really is viable.

    Cheers!

    Martin

  5. #5
    75+ Posting Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Israel
    Posts
    136
    Contribute If you enjoy reading the
    content here, click the below
    image to support MyCockpit site.
    Click Here To Contribute To Our Site

    Well, i did just that

    Used the 50k motorized pots from audio equiptment--they consists pot, dcmotor, gear and clutch all in one package
    As a interface the open cockpit dc card is used

    As the torgue is low--counterweights to compensate the weight of throttle assembly was added below

    Adding her a link where you may see some photos of my creation
    Thats Israel pit builders site, so ignore the language

    http://www.vatil.org/vatil/board/viewtopic.php?t=13228

  6. #6
    10+ Posting Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    London UK and Uzes France
    Posts
    14
    Contribute If you enjoy reading the
    content here, click the below
    image to support MyCockpit site.
    Click Here To Contribute To Our Site

    So it has been done...

    I think I might go with it - I am building a "scale" replica of the throttles to go with a "scale" set of controls in a custom setup - I am not looking for 100% accuracy to the original, and I want to keep it as light as possible, so maybe the lack of torque won't be too much of a problem.

    There are 2 things that are causing me grief:

    First is the reverse levers. I would like to keep them as part of the main thrust levers (as on a "real" setup), but it is quite tricky mechanically. I think the mini linear pots might be the way to go (the whole reverse mechanism is then attached to the main levers, and moves with the levers.

    Second, is detents. I have no idea how to create them. Flaps detents are easy, as the "mechanism" is on the outside of the quadrant. As for the thrust detents, I'm stumped!

    I think TOGA and ATHR Cancel buttons will go onto my rig as separate items - not ingegrated in the levers (unless I can think of a clever way to do it easily )

    Cheers!

    Martin

  7. #7
    10+ Posting Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    London UK and Uzes France
    Posts
    14
    Contribute If you enjoy reading the
    content here, click the below
    image to support MyCockpit site.
    Click Here To Contribute To Our Site


  8. #8
    75+ Posting Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Israel
    Posts
    136
    Contribute If you enjoy reading the
    content here, click the below
    image to support MyCockpit site.
    Click Here To Contribute To Our Site

    Quote Originally Posted by AnglaisEnUzes View Post
    Yes it is, but seems to me-this device is very small

    That what i use:


    http://cgi.ebay.com/ALPS-705t-25K-RD...QQcmdZViewItem

    As to reversers--i use microswithes
    TOGA and ATHR Cancel buttons are another simple pusbuttons assighnet
    via Fsuipc--no probs with them

    Few advises if you will deside to go this way:

    Keep the mechanic balansed , adding counterweight --i mean throttle levers and handles assembly -- that most important
    Alsow do them as light as possible

    Regards

  9. #9
    500+ This must be a daytime job 737NUT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    778
    Contribute If you enjoy reading the
    content here, click the below
    image to support MyCockpit site.
    Click Here To Contribute To Our Site

    I just posted the PERFECT solution to utilizing true reverse thrust movement and nice linear travel. STRING-pots! I will NEVER use another slide pot or rotary style pot again! They may be 8-10x's the price but you get what you pay for, headache, sloppy and inconsistent set-ups when not using string pots. Just my .02

  10. #10
    10+ Posting Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    London UK and Uzes France
    Posts
    14
    Contribute If you enjoy reading the
    content here, click the below
    image to support MyCockpit site.
    Click Here To Contribute To Our Site

    Quote Originally Posted by 737NUT View Post
    I just posted the PERFECT solution to utilizing true reverse thrust movement and nice linear travel. STRING-pots! I will NEVER use another slide pot or rotary style pot again! They may be 8-10x's the price but you get what you pay for, headache, sloppy and inconsistent set-ups when not using string pots. Just my .02
    Thanks. That's an interesting concept - how is the "springback" on the strings? It it workable?

    I have decided to start with the 737 quadrant on http://www.737ngproject.be/ and add to it (motorised throttles, pot based reversers etc).

    Then, when I have built it and it is all working, I will work on a 4-engine variant of it.

    That way, I will have separate 2 and 4 engine quadrants, and I can learn from an already working "base", rather than designing from scratch!

    Cheers!


    Edit: The quadrant looks reasonably simple to convert to motorised, if motors rather than servos were used. Take this image:



    If one "extended" the throttle plaques and external plaques downwards (you cannot extend *all* the plaques because then there would be no room for the motors), you could fit a gearing system and a miniature high torque motor such as the V963 from Astrosyn. As long as the control logic was carefully calibrated, then that would be reasonably simple to do (simple being a relative concept here )

    Martin

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Throttle Levers
    By AlexJ in forum General Builder Questions All Aircraft Types
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 05-25-2010, 07:57 AM
  2. Throttle levers
    By Jordan Farmer in forum General Builder Questions All Aircraft Types
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 08-14-2009, 11:49 AM
  3. AIRBUS CDUs and THRUST LEVERS FOR SALE
    By warvet in forum Cockpit Parts and Motion Platforms
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 08-18-2008, 01:45 AM
  4. Airbus and Tenzing achieve breakthrough in low-cost airborne e-mail
    By Airbus RSS News Feed in forum Airbus Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-13-2007, 12:40 PM
  5. Airbus and Tenzing achieve breakthrough in low-cost airborne e-mail
    By Airbus RSS News Feed in forum Airbus Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-28-2006, 05:41 AM