Short SC7 Skyvan - The Shed in the shed

I actually have not tried the xplane only spherical rendering because what would you do outiside of xplane? No un warped desktop the machine would be near on unusable.

The fly elise software also comes with the multi view plugin that allows you to create up to 6 different views (heading, FOV, and pixes vertical / horizontal) inside xplane which then get projected on the warped screen. My screen thou projected by 3 projectors is actually a stitch of 5 different views created by the multi view plugin :)

Well, why in the world would the projected image EVER show anything BUT X-Plane? :) The PC is set to start X-Plane automatically I presume? (This is very simple in Linux, I assume it's not a big deal in Windows either.) I also presume you are using some sort of instructor console/administrative PC for setting up scenarios, changing settings, etc, and that the projector PC is running as an "extra visual"?

If you do need to use the PC for other things, you can use an extra monitor and one of these: http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_i...seq=1&format=2 I have used such a device for working on the PCs in my sim...I don't have spherical projection, but my WX radar screen is tiny, so I have a VGA box permanently installed so that I can just hook in a "service" monitor when needed.

It sounds like you are saying Fly-Elise actually runs outside of X-Plane so that you always have a properly warped view? I did not know they did that. Anyways it sounds like with the multi views that they are doing some really cool stuff inside X-Plane. But I'm having trouble visualizing how those extra views work...does Fly-Elise provide extra "virtual" screens that are totally separate from each other?

Hi Matt!

Here comes my newby-ness into play :D it`s our first foray into sim building and we only started in January, since then we (my friend and myself) have learned a great deal but for example the setup you describe where the external view is an extra visual never occurred to us :D thats`s definitely food for thought !

Currently the setup is like this:

Master X-Plane Machine:
inputs:
All the LeoBodnar cards for interfacing flight controls and switches
outputs:
Via Tripplehead2go to 3 x BenQ 1080WST onto cylindrical projection screen
runs:
X-Plane (of course)
BFF Simulations Control Loading
FlyElise Display Warping

SimAvio Machine:
inputs:
leoBodnar BBI32 button boxes for interfacing avionics
Saitek Yoke/pedals/Throttle quadrant
Track IR head tracking
outputs:
5 monitors for the MIP, eyebrow panel and an external IOS/Formation flying screen
runs:
SimAvio2 with all our instruments on it.
occasionally X-Plane either as an instructors station which i find not very usefull at teh time as its easier to adjust settings from inside the sim or much better using the secondary machine for the formation leader flying from the Virtual cockpit with the head tracking device and teh saitek inputs.

So considering the complexity of the machine we are still on only 2 PCs!
If i think about performance i´d like to get a second external view machine and offload at least 1 of the Beamers on to it or even better get a 4th beamer and run 2 each on the master and an external visual machine for better performance. we have teh problem that the size of the cockpit and our vertical field of view (huge side windows) requires a less than optimal placement of the beamers. with 4 beamers we´d be able to get further away from the center of the cockpit which would allow mounting the beamers much lower and still not get shading from the shell causing much less required warping and much brighter / crisper picture. With an additional PC running teh beamers it would also be possible to use full resolution currently we only use 2/3rds of the res for performance reasons.

The Skyvan cockpit is too small to allow good placement for a service monitor inside, but i think now with teh motion project starting and teh required rebuild to strengthen (read make shake proof :)) the installation i think we`ll probably setup the secondary PCs external screen behind the cab so you can see into the cabin from the instructors station (that would be a big plus)

As to the immersive display from fly-elise:

It´s exactly as you say, it´s running all the time so we have basically a huge desktop when we are not inside X-plane :) we have been doing a lot of the SASL script programming while sitting in the cockpit and looking out the front and side windows :D just finding teh mouse pointer is a pain at times :D
So basically there are 2 things happening:
Immersive display is adjusting the picture coming out of the 3 projectors so as to give one large wrap around screen regardless of what programm is running.

Then There is the Multiview plugin in Xplane:
This plugin allows you to setup up to 6 independent "windows" with the following parameters:
X / Y location in pixels
Width and height in pixels
heading and pitch in degrees
FOV in degrees (currently all windows you setup use the same FOV as window 1 regardless of what you enter its a limitation the flyElise guys work on)

So for example my Screen is 3840 x 1024
X Plane running in Full screen mode

Now i could setup 6 view "windows"
1:
X=0 Y=0
Width = 640 Height = 1024
heading = 275.5 pitch = 0
FOV = 35

2:
X=640 Y=0
Width = 640 Height = 1024
heading = 310,5 pitch = 0
FOV = 35

3:
X=1280 Y=0
Width = 640 Height = 1024
heading = 345,5 pitch = 0
FOV = 35

4:
X=1920 Y=0
Width = 640 Height = 1024
heading = 20,5 pitch = 0
FOV = 35

5 and so forth to 6 to get a 210° total field of view for example stitched together from 35° FOV pieces so there are very small kinks in the view when for example changing pitch as opposed to smaller number of views. See attached pic.
Currently i run only 5 views of 42° FOV each due to performance reasons.

It took me a while to figure out that i need to view the projection and what i project independently :D The projectors just affect the total available FOV and the multi view plugin then lets you setup the picture to your liking.

There is one down side however:
If the multi view plugin is running other Xplane instances running networked recognize the one runing multi-view as a PRO version even if you started from the home version CD! So if you use the multi view plugin you need PRO dongles on all your networked Xplane instances to prevent errors and Xplane from shutting down.
If you use only a single X-plane then thats no issue.

Cheers
Phillip

Thanks for the explanation, that makes much more sense now! Well, the Fly-Elise guys are indeed doing some impressive stuff, especially with the multiple OpenGL views....good showcase of what can be done with X-Plane's SDK and its OpenGL loop! It's too bad they don't have a Linux version.....their software is obviously very capable, and the price is extremely reasonable. But, I refuse to ever go back to Windows.

Interesting what you say about X-Plane's instructor console. I have not tried it, but I was considering it for my Sabreliner. Perhaps I will just keep my "instructor" PC as a normal cockpit/outside view.

So you are saying Fly-Elise makes the X-Plane installation appear to be a "PRO" version? Hmmm, interesting........

The reason I was suggesting making all your outside window displays "slave" is twofold: first, you free up your render PCs from any extra workload related to your plugins, extra software, etc. Second, the pilot(s) won't see you clicking around and configuring the next doomsday systems failure scenario. :) I don't have my current sim configured this way, but I will be going this route on the Sabreliner. I have only experimented with it a bit, but I think it will make for a smoother and more professional looking rig.

How do you like the BFF force feedback setup? I'd run across the page before, looks interesting. My current plan is to use hydraulics for my force feedback, but brushless motors would be simpler and cleaner, as long as whatever system I choose gets away from the "bounce back" effect that is typical with electronic feedback systems (maybe going brushless helps with this).

The BFF System is very good with the recommendet motors and Ians controller and the correct gearing we made up to 80lb stick force! The adjustments need some experimenting but it's definitely worth it! If you are simulating a hydraulic system then it's much easier than our non hydraulic flight controls to adjust to get the control forces right. Ian is also very helpful when you have questions.

conclusion is I can definitely warmly recommend BFF force feedback :)

The real control system in the Sabreliner is not hydraulic, I was going to use hydraulic pressure to provide force feedback. I have "flown" hydraulic systems at Flight Safety and found them to provide impressive forces, but electric would be better if BFF has the force curves figured out (and assuming I can source suitable motors).

This might be something good to test with my current sim, which has been my testbed for a lot of stuff. :)

you can adjust the force curves with several factors from linear to exponential and also the "steepnes" etc etc. it`s really very good :) If the Skyvan has manual flight controls with push-pull tubes instead of cables and we where able to duplicate the control feel in the sim to a very high degree!

Rebuild !

After the Flying Season 2014 is slowly coming to a close we have started a MAJOR rebuild of the sim.

The architecture of teh sims system has changed slightly.
Now we have:

PC #1 Running
X-Plane master with all Inputs.
Sim Avio2 Instrument panel
BFF Force Feedback

PC #2
X-Plane Slave External Display only !
Fly Elise Immersive Display Pro -> Tripple head2Go -> 3 Beamers

The idea being that the Master X-plane only runs on miniumum settings to ensure stable FPS above 20 for our SASAL scripts of which some just go completely bonkers below 20FPS. Also to have a capability to run an Instructors station from an external screen while the main display inside the sim always keeps showing the outside world (Thanks Xplanematt for that suggestion it really makes MUCH more sense !
Hopefully the Display X-plane when having all the calculation intensive stuff offloaded will give us a slightly better performance than before.

All teh Russcool goodies finally arrived, So major rebuild of the instrument panel now with Bezels for:
Aspen PFD1000
Garmin 530
Garmin 430

General cleanup of cables etc.

we also rebuilt the whole Control Loading system. The Rudder got a 2 stage drive to increase available rudder force by 3,75. The Elevator and aileron got all teh slop worked out of their systems, and we made a new actuation of all the position feedback potis (flight controls and trim) that maximize poti travel to nearly the full 270° and with this resolution.

Lots and lots of work to go :D

Just finished a 1 week full time sim programming and flight model tweaking session with James our LUA and xplane plane maker wiz :)

what code we had on the engine just got a lot better :)
We also adjusted the propeller drag, inertia , airplane total drag, fixed elevator response and more. Where ever we had something that was indicating what a Skyvan should indicate when you made a snapshot, now all the responses on the gauges a no from the flight model are pretty much spot on.
Really stoked on the success of this weeks work.
Attachment 9755Attachment 9756Attachment 9757Attachment 9758

Some quick update:

A quick look around, nevermind the racket in the background all our sound is in the headset ;)

http://youtu.be/WuOxGxPH1j4

and a takeoff:
http://youtu.be/3S76oJUlwr8

90% done still 99% to be done I think every builder can relate to that..

cheers
MB