OC/SIOC Opinions?

I am just starting to look at SIOC so I can get my Open Cockpits Outputs board working and it looks daunting! However, the more I read the more this looks like the way to go for everything. It looks extremely powerfull and although the learning curve looks a little steep I like the idea of being able to write all of the logic into one script and then share it. It also seems (and someone correct me if I am wrong) that you can do all of your interfacing directly in the script without the need to have controls input within FS or FSUIPC. Since you can just use offsets you can bypass setup of keys or buttons within FSUIPC correct?

How are the boards? How do rotaries work with OC boards? Can they keep up when turning fast?

I have a feeling I may be looking more at these if I can be successfull with the OUtputs board at least.

Thank you,
Scott

Hi

i am not related to OC ... just a happy customer ... and I have some contact with
some of the guys from OC. It helps if you can speak some spanish...

anyway, the oc hardware is good, stable, and SIOC scripting is powerfull enough to get
a lot of logic in it for a plane. Its event driven which makes it very suitable for cockpit building
and it very flexible. It communicates with fsuipc offsets. The rotary encoders that are being sold at opencockpits and at flight deck solutions go directly on two consecutive master card
inputs and work like a charm. The speed you accomplish with them is only limited by your
script implementation.

There are many people who use it and who are willing to answer if you are stuck with something. One thing you are right about .. at first it looks daunting but ones you understand
the logic of it and you get the hang on it... nothing can stop you anymore.

Greetz Peter

Hi Scott,

I've only just scratched the surface of SIOC myself but have to agree that it has huge potential. Its just a pity their manuals are a little scant to say the least. However with the help of Nico Kaan (Kiek) and others the task is made a little easier. Here is a link to their IOCards Step by Step guide that I found helpful. You may also have it. Also the french forum Aircockpit has some good tips if you read french, otherwise run it through Babelfish for a rough translation. There was also another French builder at www.simucockpit.com that I learnt a lot from but the link is broken (or he hasn't paid his IT bills).

Of course SIOC still relies on programs like FSUIPC to talk to FS however you can also use OC's proprietry program IOCP which does the same thing. It's actually a faster protocol but with a little less functionality. Pete Dowsons intensive work investigating the guts of FS has allowed FSUIPC to access more functions.

Cheers,

Ken.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kennair

Hi Scott,

I've only just scratched the surface of SIOC myself but have to agree that it has huge potential. Its just a pity their manuals are a little scant to say the least. However with the help of Nico Kaan (Kiek) and others the task is made a little easier. Here is a link to their IOCards Step by Step guide that I found helpful. You may also have it. Also the french forum Aircockpit has some good tips if you read french, otherwise run it through Babelfish for a rough translation. There was also another French builder at www.simucockpit.com that I learnt a lot from but the link is broken (or he hasn't paid his IT bills).

Of course SIOC still relies on programs like FSUIPC to talk to FS however you can also use OC's proprietry program IOCP which does the same thing. It's actually a faster protocol but with a little less functionality. Pete Dowsons intensive work investigating the guts of FS has allowed FSUIPC to access more functions.

Cheers,

Ken.

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Thank you Ken,

I was actually looking at your site last night :-). It is in my bookmarks as you get the credit for my yoke design. Anyway, seems like you are having good success. I am going to play around some more working with the USB Outputs board I bought and doing more reading. I did read the tutorial and watched the power points. I find the best thing for me is to open some other's sioc scripts and read through them and follow the logic in my head while reading their comments and following along with FSUIPC sdk offsets list. This really helps in starting to see how SIOC works. I have a Hagstrom 108 which is a breeze to work with but it is an emulator so there is no logic capability. That is what I see in SIOC. The ability to create systems logic that closely replicates the real airplane. Just the Flight Guidance Controller on the Learjet has so much logic that it is impossible to try to implement correctly on a keyboard emulator. For instance, having the Yaw Damper come on automatically when AP master is turned on rather than having to press the YD button as well. This is where I see SIOC really being the solutions.

Stay tuned...I may ask you a few questions :-) You are are little further down the road then me right now.

Regards,
Scott

Scott, I did exactly the same as you i.e. stole the code from other scripts and adapted the specific switch numbering etc. It's the only way to learn it. Once you get the hang of the scripting language, which is really just simply basic programming structure, you can start implementing more complex things.

My (now old) autopilot was scripted so that you must press the TEST button while the aircraft was on the ground prior to flight. It would then go through its test sequence (which was just sequencially lighting the LED's). If this wasn't done prior to flight, once in the air, the autopilot wouldn't function. It was really quite easy to do (eventually) and replicated the exact functionality of the real Bendix unit. There's no way you can do this within FS alone, and the only offset it required was the one that tells if you're on the ground or not.

Ken.

Thanks Ken for encouraging Scott. He's not totally aware of it yet, but he's about to start being the OC interface guru for us LJ45 builders!

:-)

:eek:

Well, I dont know if I can or want to live up to that one but I will sure try. Well see how well it goes with outputs board but I am definitely digging into this.

Scott

This may be a dumb question but does EVERY key modeled in FS and in FSUIPC commands list have a corresponding FSUIPC Offset? Am I correct that assuming you use FSUIPC interface for SIOC that all variables coming from FS must have an offset? In other words, you do not setup a variable to read an fs keystroke event correct?

Hope my question makes sense...

Scott

Hi Scott
You're in for some exciting times. My father and I have just finished wiring 737NG Overhead using FlightDecksolutions, IOCard from OC and PMSystems. And we will bring it to life using SIOC. I've spent three days pouring over SIOC stuff. And I'm very exited as to what is possible to do with SIOC.

It is a steep learing curve for those who have no prior knowledge of pogramming and the mechanics of FSUIPC offsets. But I think how satisfying it will be, accomplishing something using SIOC. And I can't stop thinking about how awesome the OVERHEAD will be using SIOC:p

You had some questions. Although not an expert, I can give you some insight in what you're dealing with

Quote:

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Originally Posted by XOrionFE

This may be a dumb question but does EVERY key modeled in FS and in FSUIPC commands list have a corresponding FSUIPC Offset?

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I think it would be more correct to look at it the other way around. FSUIPC provides functionality through offsets, and these can optionally be assigned to keys if you want. Keys are subordinate to offsets, because it is changing the value at an offset that makes things happen in the sim. And offsets can be manipulated in many ways, including using a keypress.

It is partly true that every entry in the command list corresponds to an offset. But remember that some commands perhaps only changes one BIT among 8 possible BITS in an offset (assuming you understand binary numbers, if not tell me:))!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by XOrionFE

Am I correct that assuming you use FSUIPC interface for SIOC that all variables coming from FS must have an offset? In other words, you do not setup a variable to read an fs keystroke event correct?

Hope my question makes sense...

Scott

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Correct, with SIOC you link a SIOC variable to an FSUIPC offset.
Keystrokes aren't very effective.
I'll try my best to explain why, and since I'm new to this forum, I will try not to assume anything about what you already know. So please forgive me if I end up using a cannon where a bee-bee gun would have been enough;)

In simple terms FSUIPC magically knows useable memory locations inside the FS memoryspace, containing simulation data such as HDG, IAS etc. And is able to copy values at these memory adresses into its own memoryspace (in addition, it maintains offsets for other programs as well, such as Project Magenta).

It then provides external software with some straightforward functions to read and, if possible, manipulate the value at an offset. Thus enabling external software and hardware components to control the simulation from the outside so to speak.

Keypresses are controlled by the operating system, and generally all programs can use it to get user input, it is the standard I/O way. But we are meddling with non-standard hardware. Such as knobs, switches an LEDs. Using keyboard functionality as an intermediate when relaying actions performed by non-standard hw to FSUIPC, is the long way. Using valuable CPU cycles, slowing your simulation down unecessary.

SIOC can, and will, function as a far more effective and versatile way for non-standard hw to get in contact with offsets. Simply because it is designed to do just that. Making the programcode lean and fast!

Keep in mind that only FSUIPC should be associated with term offset (which is just another word for a memoryadress, nothing more) in this context.

Using the term variables with FS wouldn't be right either in this context, because FS does not provide us with variables that can be used in programming behaviour of a switch.

SIOC on the other hand does! It programatically manipulates variables, and these variables can be linked to FSUIPC offsets, which in turn interfaces with FS!
On the other side of the coin SIOC variables can also be associated with simulation hardware, brigding the gap between non-standard hw and FS in an elegant and powerful way. (it seems, I'm not really qualified to make that assumption after only three days in SIOC country)

Hope this helps you understand the basics of what you're getting into:D

Good luck and do post progress!

Morten

Yes, I understand Morten (and you used the perfect size gun...thank you).

The more I read the more exciting SIOC is to me. The idea that you can take variable values out and have those go into external logic and then put something back in in response is so powerful that it is the real power to me of SIOC besides the speed gain by cutting out the middleman as you pointed out (keyboard strokes).

A couple others on this forum pointed out the value of OC boards a long time ago to me and I ended up going with a Hagstrom board. The Hagi is great but has no where near the power and possiblities because it is basically a one way street. I guess at the time this idea just didnt sink in to me.

Now I have to basically rethink everything because I can see that SIOC is the way and you just confirmed it both through your experience and confirming what I thought I had read.

Thanks to both you and Ken. I now have to do some coding and see what I can come up with.