Cessna 172 (ish) FSX Simulator

[CathayA340]

Hello.

I am a 14 year old that enjoys flight simulation. I mainly fly the PMDG 737NGX for AAVirtual.net.
Today, I went to the local airport to take a tour and got a 1 hour gift certificate for later use on an "introductory flight lesson" in the Cessna 172.
I know that I have to start with a Cessna to get up to my goal of being an airline pilot on the 737, so it is time to start now.
I run FSX on one computer, an i5-4670K overclocked to 3.8GHZ with an MSI GTX750ti 2GB video card and can handle the NGX's VC at 30fps.
The default Cessna in FSX stinks, so what is the best payware C172 I should get for FSX?

I also want to start practicing flying the C172 as I have little experience with it (I know how to fly airliners more). I would like to build a cockpit, it doesn't have to exactly resemble the 172, but something similar so I can get the feel for it when I start flight/ground school. I am on a very low budget of around 200-300 dollars as I just spent $900 building the computer for FSX. After this year, my budget will rise to around $800 for the cockpit.
I am not too good with electronic stuff so plug and play modules would be ideal. I am also looking for some measurements for the cockpit, and some suggestions of materials to use. By cockpit, I just mean a panel, and not an actual "cockpit" if you know what I mean...I already have a 32" monitor for the scenery display and 2 20" monitors (I used those monitors as my instruments for the NGX).
Any tips would be appreciated as to where to start and how to build.

Thank you :)

[Westozy]

A2A C172 is outstanding!! I suggest you start there, good luck with your projects!
Cheers Gwyn

[CathayA340]

A2A C172 is outstanding!! I suggest you start there, good luck with your projects!
Cheers Gwyn
Thanks for the suggestion! I will be purchasing that shortly. Are there any checklists that go along with it?

[BushPilotWannabe]

Working towards FSX C172 desktop panel myself. I think that a low tech radio panel is a good intermediate step. Nothing slows the flow of the sim faster than using the mouse to change frequencies etc. Maybe try turning a second keyboard sideways and assign one row (4 keys) to each to a radio. eg. the 5, T, H and N keys for 'Nav1' MHz, kHz, up and down. It's as labour intensive as the mouse but once located you can move by feel while keeping straight and level. My next project is to paste a photo of the radio stack to an 8"W x 12"H panel (cookie sheet?) and add switches etc. through the photo for the most used devices. I'm starting with Nav1 and the heading adjust knob its CDI instrument. It would be nice to have digital read out next to the switches but this is an intermediate step getting experience building and flying as cheaply as possible.

I cannot contribute any history with an off the shelf switch controller because so far my strange methods are best served by an Arduino board and do-it-myself programming. BUT, I suggest that you keep to a system that allows multiple controller boards and start off with something small that will control four encoders and maybe half a dozen pushbuttons and then, if you like the product go for the biggest available. As you experiment and expand if this part becomes redundent it is nice to have an off the shelf product with a fair resale value.

[steveteva]

I use iDisplay and an android tablet with Flight1 GTN750 for the com, nav and map,.... Very good but I will purchase a touchscreen monitor because bigger than the 10inch tablet.

[BushPilotWannabe]

Great! Now you have me thinking about programming a touch screen overlay on top of the FS radio stack window to adjusting frequencies by touching a virtual knob and sliding four directions to move the numbers.

The world will be a better place when you can drill holes in LCD panels beginning with the shaft for a flight yoke.

[steveteva]

I use simplugins for gauges, they also have an A2a c172 addon but its fee so not tested yet.
I don't think that the default FSX c172 is bad. I use it for my cockpit and it's great.

The only thing I don t like about the c172 is the flying range and altitude that is too low compare to a Cirrus single enine SR22 for example that is great for coutry flying from many waypoints all over the US.
When you do for example a NYC to San Francisco it's easier with it, there are high mountains to cross and C172 won't make it, also fewer stops.

[BushPilotWannabe]

Bonjour steveteva.

I have Panel Builder on a 19" 4x3 monitor and trying for a C172 realistic panel which needs a little more width, and cannot decide amungst 21" to 23" widescreen monitors. Are you using one of these and do you have any recommendations?

[steveteva]

I have 3X22" monitors (gtx780) for outside views, 1X19" for panel and 10" tablet for GPS and GTN750

So looks like we have same screen size for the panel a 19" and it's fine for me I guess a 21" will be better, bigger won't really be useful if you use a touch screen monitor by its side or a tablet like I did.

I did not yet finished I must cutout holes on a aluminum sheet to cover my gauge monitor for more realistic cockpit.

See picture

9488

This is my old setup with a 22" monitor for panel but without the tablet device and 2X22" monitors for outside views:

9489

[CathayA340]

I use simplugins for gauges, they also have an A2a c172 addon but its fee so not tested yet.
I don't think that the default FSX c172 is bad. I use it for my cockpit and it's great.

The only thing I don t like about the c172 is the flying range and altitude that is too low compare to a Cirrus single enine SR22 for example that is great for coutry flying from many waypoints all over the US.
When you do for example a NYC to San Francisco it's easier with it, there are high mountains to cross and C172 won't make it, also fewer stops.

Thanks for the info! I will also try that idea, sounds good with the simplugins gauges.

[CathayA340]

I have 3X22" monitors (gtx780) for outside views, 1X19" for panel and 10" tablet for GPS and GTN750

So looks like we have same screen size for the panel a 19" and it's fine for me I guess a 21" will be better, bigger won't really be useful if you use a touch screen monitor by its side or a tablet like I did.

I did not yet finished I must cutout holes on a aluminum sheet to cover my gauge monitor for more realistic cockpit.

See picture

9488

This is my old setup with a 22" monitor for panel but without the tablet device and 2X22" monitors for outside views:

9489

Wow! That looks very good, that gave me some good ideas :)

For the radio, Saitek is having a sale on the weekend of October 4 (according to froogle) so hopefully I'll be able to get some panels.

[CathayA340]

Currently my setup is based on the PMDG 737 NGX, but I don't know what to get first for the C172 - TPM, Radio, Autopilot, etc?

[steveteva]

Saitek autopilot and power switches, radios can be done on a gtn750.

[CathayA340]

Saitek autopilot and power switches, radios can be done on a gtn750.
Thanks for the info! The GTN 750 is by Flight1, I assume? Did you just use Air Display or something to drag it on to the tablet?
I'm not going to be getting the autopilot though. I would actually prefer to have the power switches and radio as actual panels, maybe Desktop Aviator and Saitek. And the TPM is extremely important is well...so probably I'd first get the TPM and Desktop Aviator Cessna panel.

[Xpendable]

I would definitely get the TPM. As a real-world 172 pilot, the TPM adds a lot to the realism. They made not be exactly like the ones in the plane, but they are good enough. I will eventually be replacing my TPM with real Cessna equipment.

[CathayA340]

I would definitely get the TPM. As a real-world 172 pilot, the TPM adds a lot to the realism. They made not be exactly like the ones in the plane, but they are good enough. I will eventually be replacing my TPM with real Cessna equipment.
Thanks for your advice! I agree, that seems to be something that is a must. Are the Saitek ones any good?

[Xpendable]

Are the Saitek ones any good?

That's what I use in mine and I think it's pretty good. Be aware that there is no friction lock on the throttle (you wouldn't neat it anyway assuming you aren't building a full-motion cockpit) and that the mixture setting can't be fine-tuned by rotating the mixture knob like you can on a real plane. But the controls are smooth and have the right amount of friction. They also seem to hold up well to the abuse of my 4, 2, and 1 year old daughters.

[CathayA340]

That's what I use in mine and I think it's pretty good. Be aware that there is no friction lock on the throttle (you wouldn't neat it anyway assuming you aren't building a full-motion cockpit) and that the mixture setting can't be fine-tuned by rotating the mixture knob like you can on a real plane. But the controls are smooth and have the right amount of friction. They also seem to hold up well to the abuse of my 4, 2, and 1 year old daughters.
Haha, ok! Thanks :) I guess I'll be purchasing the Saitek TPM in the next two weeks or so.
I haven't bought the A2A C172 yet but I will soon. I'm currently using a merge of the Real Air C172 air file merged with the default FSX C172 and TSS freeware 172 sounds.

[geneb]

I'd also recommend the trim wheel they sell. I purchased one a few weeks ago to use with the TPM & my Oculus Rift. It works great!

[CathayA340]

I'd also recommend the trim wheel they sell. I purchased one a few weeks ago to use with the TPM & my Oculus Rift. It works great!
Thank you for the suggestion! Currently I have the trim programmed into the yoke controls. Do you think it's worth it to purchase the wheel? So I guess for my birthday or something I'll get the TPM and *maybe* the avionics panel.

I just started taking flight lessons, and my plan is to take the youth aviation course program at my flying school on my way to the PPL, and take 2 lessons per year. At age 15/16 I will start taking a bunch of lessons and get my hours up :)

[Xpendable]

I also have the Saitek trim wheel and love it. However, you should understand that it's use is not the same as in the real aircraft. In the real aircraft, the trim wheel is used to reduce the pressure on the elevator that you feel from the air stream wanting to keep the elevator neutral with regards to the angle of attack. For example, when you pull back on the yoke for a climb, the wind wants to push the elevator back down to neutral, and you feel that as pressure on the yoke that naturally wants to push the yoke forward away from you. So you use your muscles to hold the yoke in the climb. If you don't have a trim tab on the elevator, you arms will eventually get tired from holding the yoke against that pressure. So then you use the trim wheel to counter-act the wind forces on the elevator. How does that work? Well, the trim tab on the elevator is actually like an "elevator" for the elevator! Only in this case, it is moved downwards from the elevator. The airflow pushes on the down trim tab which causes the elevator to be pushed up. The more the trim tab is down, the more the elevator will be pushed up. And if you are trimming for nose down, the opposite happens. The elevator is down but the trim tab will be up.

What you really do in the airplane is this... You pitch for your climb and then hold the yoke there. Then you slowly turn the trim wheel and you actually feel the pressure lessoe on the yoke. It's like the "weight" wanting to return the elevator to neutral slowly and magically goes away. Eventually it disappears altogether when it's perfectly in trim, and you can literally let go of the yoke and it will actually stay at that position. Furthermore, you can push or pull on the yoke at that point and then let go, and the yoke will return to that trimmed position all on its own. It's almost like a poor-man's autopilot! If you over trim, then you'll find your muscles have to push the yoke forward, and you'll have to turn the trim wheel the opposite direction until all the forces are "trimmed out".

So why is it not realistic in a simulator? Simple... your yoke (unless you happen to be really lucky to have a realistic force-loading / force-feedback yoke) can't simulate the changing control pressures on the elevator. Most simulator yokes are spring-loaded to a neutral elevator position. It doesn't matter if you trim the nose up or down, you will never reduce the effect the springs have on wanting to return the yoke to neutral. That said, trim is useful in a simulator, but it is not at all like how it is used in the real airplane. In a simulator, what you end up doing is dialing in the trim as you ease the yoke back to it's neutral position. The end result is the plane stays in the pitch you desire, but the yoke is actually in an unrealistic position since you are not holding it in the correct place like you would in a real aircraft. In a simulator, you are using the trim to pitch the plane instead of the elevator, which is not what you do in the real aircraft. I know this is confusing... but you will understand when you learn to trim in the real aircraft.

If you had a yoke that could change the pressure felt on the elevator (they do exist, but they are very expensive or are home built with massive engineering skills!) then the trim wheel could be used just like it is in the real aircraft. Most of us aren't that lucky of course. As I said before, I do have the Saitek trim wheel and I do absolutely love it, even though it's operation is not realistic because I have no variable control loading on my yoke.

Anyway, hope this helps.

[steveteva]

Thanks for the info! The GTN 750 is by Flight1, I assume? Did you just use Air Display or something to drag it on to the tablet?
I'm not going to be getting the autopilot though. I would actually prefer to have the power switches and radio as actual panels, maybe Desktop Aviator and Saitek. And the TPM is extremely important is well...so probably I'd first get the TPM and Desktop Aviator Cessna panel.

Yes I bought both Air display and idisplay but only idisplay is working fine with my setup.

I"m goign to do the gauge panel next week.

[steveteva]

Anyone knows where I can but a good more realistic cessna 172 TPM other than the Saitek because all you need is the Black (throttle) and Red (mixture) push buttons. Why do saitek adds blue (pitch) and many switches on side?

Or maybe any idea on how to custom mod the Saitek TPM by removing switch side and pitch?

[geneb]

Because some Cessnas are equipped with variable pitch props. There's no reason to remove the pitch control. Just "install" a variable pitch prop on your airplane. Problem solved. :)

g.