Panel instrument cutouts over computer monitor question

[ozziesim]

Hey all,

Im building a quick sim for practice at home on IFR procedures, it is based on a king air type setup and i was wandering what is the best way or "how to do" the cutout panel to go over the computer screen.

Im using a 19 inch LCD monitor and will do a simple painted MDF board cutout to sit over the top, I was wandering how do you make sure the instruments line up with the holes/squares cut on the panel.

Do you cut out the panel first then undock the instruments to align ?
Do you use panel editing software such as FSpanel to adjust the size and positioning of the instruments ?
Do i align the image on the monitor and trace the instruments then cut them out ?

I have seen alot of people do this however i have not been able to find anyone detailing how they exactly did this.

Do you know of any links to any good tutorials ?

Anyone wish to share how they did theirs ?

Thanks

[Shawn]

I use networked gauges on a separate computer, this allows me to place each individual gauge where I want them. A good start would be to try the freeware gauges by Laurent H.

http://www.thegaugesfactory.org/

You can use a very basic computer on a home network, with the added bonus of reducing the workload on you FS computer. Instead of Mdf you might consider PVC board, it's thinner and very easy to work with. It comes under a variety of names but I have been able to buy it at local sign shops quite easily, it costs about the same as good 1/2" plywood.

Shawn

[den19]

I use the Peix GAPanel on a second pc for the instruments. It is payware but I've been using it for at least 5 years with no problems.
You can have several different panels saved and open the one you want. I have one for C172 and one for a generic twin, and separate MIP panels whic I can change quickly with thumbscrews to hold them in place ove the lcd screens.

Den

[ozziesim]

Thanks im going to use plexiglass once ive finalised what im doing, the MDF is just a trial, do you have a link to the Peix software, do they have collins type glass instruments for the AHRS.

Did you guys cut out first and align later ?

[BW901]

Hi Ozziesim,

Editing panel configurations is very easy, either with software like FSPanel, or simply changing the panel config files direct in Wordpad. The gauge x,y positions on the screen and height and width are defined by four numbers. It's simple to fine tune both individual gauge position and size.

For me the key first point was sizing the gauges on my screen. Then I made cardboard mockups of the panel fascia to test the general layout and dimensions before getting my fascia plates cut (I got them CNC'd in 1.5mm aluminium sheet). A pair of scissors and some old fruit boxes from the local supermarket was all it needed for the test stage. I need to fine tune my gauge positions now, but I'm waiting until I can get some bezels to fit the instrument cutouts. The picture below is still a work in progress, the VSI will be replaced with a TCAS unit! Also I have a 10mm thick sheet of clear Perspex between the screen and the panel, it fills the gap which would otherwise be left and "pulls" the instrument image forward as well as giving a nice glass effect.

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll145/360shed/Paneltest.jpg

I'd second what Shawn said about the PVC board, the stuff I use is marketed as "Foamalux". Can be cut with a sharp knife, sanded, bent, etc....very easy to work with.

Cheers
Jon
http://www.g-bvob.net

[Louie Mendez]

That's really nice BW901. The gauges on the right are they functional or dummy?
After seeing your craftsmanship I'm not sure if I should go with G1000 or this type of setup with my C208 project.

Thanks for posting the picture.

[den19]

Link to GAPanel

http://www.peixsoft.com/index.php?page=ga-panel

Den

[BW901]

Thanks Louie,
The F/O's gauges are Flight Illusion. I was going to go down that route for the whole panel, but I wanted engine instruments that looked like the real aircraft, and also an HSI and Flight Director for the captain's side. plus it would have been a wee bit too expensive! 99% of that work was done by the guys in the Fokker factory in 1968, all I had to do was go mad with an angle grinder to be able to mount the screens behind the panel.
No reason why as Den says you cannot do both a G1000 setup and a clockwork panel, just assign them to different aircraft and when you change the fascia panel you can load either one. I'm thinking of also doing an F50-style semi-EFIS captain's panel so if I ever want to follow a magenta line instead of doing things the old-fashioned (proper) way the option is there.
Cheers
Jon

[den19]

I also have a 3rd MIP facia, this one for a glass cockpit using the freeware VASfmc software. It is very good but, unfortunately, the site no longer exists and I don'y know anywhere else hosting the files.
Would it be considered improper to place a copy in the MyCockpit file library? It may break the licence agreement but as the site no longer exists I can't ask them.
Or does it already exist there?

Den

[xplanematt]

Now I'm curious about the PVC panel, sounds like it could be useful for some other bits I'm working on for my sim.

On the instrument panel itself, however, I would suggest you stick with aluminum. Yes it's a bit more work than wood or plastic or other more flexible materials, but it maintains the right look and feel as a real plane, plus it's strong enough to hang stuff on (like the monitor).

For making the cutouts: decide how you WANT the panel to look, and cut it to that design, allowing for the dimensions of the monitor you're working with. Then adjust the software (gauges) to match. It's far easier to tweak software than to wrangle a piece of aluminum (or plastic, or wood, or cardboard, etc). For my panels, I primarily use metal-ready hole saws for the instrument cutouts (3-1/8" for standard instruments, 2-1/4" for the smaller ones), a $30 Lowes jigsaw with metal blades, my trusty Dremel, and an el cheapo benchtop drill press of Asian descent for precise drilling. :) Your initial investment probably won't be much higher than if you were working with a softer material, you are just getting slightly different tools. Throw in a countersinking drill bit for screw holes on the panel (making sure to buy some countersunk screws or bolts, of course), a couple cans of flat spray paint of your choice, and you can have yourself some fine looking (even professional) instrument panels.

Matt

[ozziesim]

Excellent suggestions, thanks I think I will do just that, that is make a mock up with PVC board first then I'll try to work out how to use FSpanel and edit the gauges to fit.

Cheers

Clint

[Louie Mendez]

I just laser cut this cardboard this morning. I know I have mentioned I'm working on c208 but this 172 is for my 9 year old son.
He's into flight simulator and Modern Warfare I'm not sure if he's going to be a grunt when he grows up.Hooah!
I'm planning to install bezels with rotary encoder in the cutouts. The knobs are laser engraved, I wasted about 10 knobs trying to center legends.

Anyways, if this cardboard works out fine I will go with aluminum for final result.

Thanks to BW901



http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd462/northbaypic/DSCN2737.jpg
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd462/northbaypic/DSCN2738.jpg
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd462/northbaypic/DSCN2739.jpg
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd462/northbaypic/DSCN2736.jpg
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd462/northbaypic/DSCN2735.jpg
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd462/northbaypic/DSCN2687.jpg
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd462/northbaypic/DSCN2686.jpg

[BW901]

Wow Louie, that's looking rather sweet, especially the knobs. :cool: Please keep the pictures coming, it's nice to see the process as well as the finished product.

Jon

[ozziesim]

Nice, sure would be handy to have a laser printer, ive started a cutout with PVC board to test. What sort of encoders are you using ?

[Louie Mendez]

I'm planning to use CTS 288t, the one in the picture is a different model.
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/288T232R161A2/CT3002-ND/203827

[ddimm]

Hi Louie -

I'm curious to know what are you using for the instrument bezels in your picture?

Thanks,
Daniel

[Louie Mendez]

Hi Louie -

I'm curious to know what are you using for the instrument bezels in your picture?

Thanks,
Daniel

It's a VOR gauge bezel. It's too deep, I have to shave it down a bit and enough space for the encoder to fit. After that I will clone it.

I can make a mold out of CAD but I'm still a total noob using the injection molding i just purchased.

[Louie Mendez]

I'm gonna design my own gauge bezel so the encoder is perfect fit.

I will scratch the idea of molding the original VOR gauge bezel. Too much work just to make the encoder custom fit under it, i'd rather fry some lumpia =).

More pics will be posted soon as the bezel is done.

[AK Mongo]

Sounds cool. Will the lumpia be available at your site?

[Louie Mendez]

Yes definitely! I will make a TQ handle out of it.

[makoy]

Hahaha, yammy parts, sarap :D

[Louie Mendez]

Wasssup Makoy? hahaha

10 min of CAD time
5 min of cut time
45 min to fry lumpia

Here is my fast-track prototyping.
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd462/northbaypic/DSCN2749.jpg

Coming up
HSI, AIS and Bezel with ATTITUDE.

[Louie Mendez]

Sorry for the crappy picture.
6868

[jer166]

When will these bezels be available?

[jer166]

What type of monitors are you going to use? I am assuming you are going to use two for your Cessna 172 panel? I am interested to see if you keep the yoke placement scale or lower it to accommodate one screen. I have been struggling with this for some time now.

[Louie Mendez]

orange= monitor
blue=panel overlay
green=yoke
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd462/northbaypic/panel.jpg

I'm constructing my own yoke. Typically, the hole for the shaft is on the center of the console , I placed it on the right side instead.

As for the monitors this is what I do for a living
http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/off-site-articles-sale/24797-monitors-sale.html

I got hundreds of them to play with =] from 3.5 to 42 inch monitors i got them all. I'll keep you guys updated soon as I figure out which monitors I will be using.

[Louie Mendez]

My son engraved these knobs
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd462/northbaypic/DSCN2974.jpg

[Louie Mendez]

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd462/northbaypic/DSCN2975.jpg
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd462/northbaypic/DSCN2977.jpg

[jer166]

Can you explain how you are going to get your gauges on those two monitors? Are you going to use fs panel studio to do it or some other way. I am very confused on how to do this. If you buy the project magenta ga fir panel can you place the gauges or do you have to cut out the proper size hole and go with their gauge setup? What is the best approach to getting gauges on those two monitors?

[Louie Mendez]

I use networked gauges on a separate computer, this allows me to place each individual gauge where I want them. A good start would be to try the freeware gauges by Laurent H.

The gauges factory (http://www.thegaugesfactory.org/)

You can use a very basic computer on a home network, with the added bonus of reducing the workload on you FS computer.

Check out Shawn's reply.

[BIGLDH]

Coming to the store soon???

[Bjarne Horsbøl]

Bezels 57 and 80 mm ! WANTED !!
You can buy almost everything for sim building ..... but not standard bezels ???????.

I wonder when a CNC guy sees the potential to sell these bezels to us GA simmers.

Best Regards
Bjarne :-)

[Louie Mendez]

Bezels 57 and 80 mm ! WANTED !!
You can buy almost everything for sim building ..... but not standard bezels ???????.

I wonder when a CNC guy sees the potential to sell these bezels to us GA simmers.

Best Regards
Bjarne :-)

I'm working on it =]

[Bjarne Horsbøl]

Hi Louie
Just checked your web. diyrealism (http://www.diyrealism.webs.com/) :D :D :D !

WAUUU ! :cool:

Wonder why I never came across your site. Are you keeping it as an secret ? ;)

[Louie Mendez]

I just started the site 4 months ago plus I'm a really shy dude.
And no secret at all I was just busy from 2003-2010 dealing with other stuff.

[iwik]

Hi Louie,
Yes i must say a great site for GA simmers. Can you tell me the hole diameter of the yoke supports you sell?.
By the way i was the Dude that bought your Skyhawk Yoke complete with pad. Very pleased and thanks.
Les

[Louie Mendez]

Hey Les the inner di. is .764, nice to see you here =).

I think these monitors should work in order to accommodate the geometric correctness of c172. I'll try to make radio stack faceplate(GNS430, GNS530, Xponder, etc) for the right side of the monitor. The challenge is not making the cutout too deep but still have room for dual rotary encoder and push button switches. It's a bit ambitious but it will be a fun father and son project.
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd462/northbaypic/DSCN2983.jpg

[BIGLDH]

Louie,

Have you had a look at Vectro's postings? He and his partner did exactly what you're talking about using the Reality XP GNS530 / Xpndr, Radio using a monitor. He had some very detailed pics on here and they also had bezels made and had found a truly innovative idea / product for backlighting. I fully intend on copying the idea, my issue is lack of CAD / fabrication knowledge or skills to produce the face plates. You should be able to hammer this out in... say... 15-30 seconds or so :o) Good luck...

Here are the links that I have saved... He's been a GREAT reference (as everyone here has been thus far) for me and has been extremely timely and courteous with replies!

http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/general-aviation-ga-builder-disccusion/23357-backlighted-avionics-panel-ga-cockpits.html

http://www.lentosimulaattori.com/index-eng.html (http://www.lentosimulaattori.com/index-eng.html)

[Louie Mendez]

Nice! So it is possible.

I actually made some GNS backlightable knobs. Problems solved =)

[Louie Mendez]

He's an amazing dude!!

[BIGLDH]

I'm in awe of ALL of you... The level of craftsmanship and attention to detail... I feel WOEFULLY out of my depth here, but I am absolutely loving this learning process. Now, if I could get a CNC, Laser Etcher, Flamethrower, and Flux Capacitor... I could REALLY be dangerous!

[Louie Mendez]

We should hand you an AT-4 so you can CNC a tank for us haha.

[Louie Mendez]

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd462/northbaypic/DSCN2994.jpg

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd462/northbaypic/DSCN2993.jpg

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd462/northbaypic/DSCN2995.jpg

[BIGLDH]

WOW! I hate you.... but I sure do ENVY you! Looks awesome Louie! Congrats!!!

[Louie Mendez]

I'm gonna have to repaint this thing. I shouldn't have used glossy black, it's reflecting on the inner wall of the gauge.
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd462/northbaypic/DSCN3006.jpg


http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd462/northbaypic/DSCN3004.jpg

[Louie Mendez]

I'm selling this cardboard for $8,000 usd and the blue tape for $500usd.

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd462/northbaypic/DSCN3018.jpg



http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd462/northbaypic/DSCN3016.jpg

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd462/northbaypic/DSCN3017.jpg

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd462/northbaypic/DSCN3014.jpg

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd462/northbaypic/DSCN3011.jpg

[BIGLDH]

Traveler's Check okay??


Looks great!!!

[Louie Mendez]

Food stamp is fine. TY bro


I'm gonna work on this next. I'll add the bevel on the inner ring of the bezel. Don't mind that red arrow I didn't put it there :D

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd462/northbaypic/AI_pic.jpg

[Louie Mendez]

I think this should work.

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd462/northbaypic/attitude.jpg

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd462/northbaypic/att.jpg

[Louie Mendez]

It's pretty obvious the cutouts will need some minor adjustments. The hole for the yoke shaft has to be dropped by 3/4 of an inch it's not going to be 100% scale but it's close enough.

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd462/northbaypic/DSCN3033.jpg

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd462/northbaypic/DSCN3032.jpg

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd462/northbaypic/DSCN3031.jpg

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd462/northbaypic/DSCN3029.jpg

[BIGLDH]

Looks amazing, as always. So I have to ask because it's tough to tell, but it looks like you have a 'lens' over the bezel... Yes? No? Maybe??? lol Love em...

[Louie Mendez]

Yes sir!!:D

[BIGLDH]

HUA! Can't wait...

[Louie Mendez]

Hoaaaaahhhh!

Silent tutorial on FS Panel Studio. Might be helpful to simmers with similar project that I'm doing.
FS Studio Panel Tutorial - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekgltS2PwJI)

[Louie Mendez]

I couldn't wait to cnc the bezel so I 3D printed it just to mess around with the piece.
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd462/northbaypic/Craigs%20Living%20room/DSCN3059.jpg

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd462/northbaypic/DSCN3069.jpg


Here's the progress.
You can see the classic magician's trick as he stab the box with a sword =).

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd462/northbaypic/Craigs%20Living%20room/DSCN3064.jpg

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd462/northbaypic/Craigs%20Living%20room/DSCN3065.jpg

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd462/northbaypic/Craigs%20Living%20room/DSCN3066.jpg




Meanwhile on my other table.

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd462/northbaypic/DSCN3058.jpg

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd462/northbaypic/Craigs%20Living%20room/DSCN3061.jpg

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd462/northbaypic/Craigs%20Living%20room/DSCN3060.jpg

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd462/northbaypic/Craigs%20Living%20room/hd3.png




6942

[jer166]

What about the annunciator and warning panel. Are you going to do those little analog led screens and program it yourself above the monitors?

[jer166]

It's hard to tell. Did you take the bezels of those monitors and strip them down to just the screen? I wonder the same thing, think you can drill a hole it?

[jer166]

Also, can you enlighten me on how you designed that panel two open up on two monitors in fsx? I assume you used fs panel studio, but did you create two panels? One for each monitor and then undock them and put one on each monitor or did you drag the edge of the one panel over onto the other monitor? I have been struggling with the top left corner of the monitor and making it fit in my dash for a while now. Do you know how to save that monitor setup in fsx? So at start up the panel goes to those screens at the same position every time?

[Louie Mendez]

Also, can you enlighten me on how you designed that panel two open up on two monitors in fsx? I assume you used fs panel studio, but did you create two panels? One for each monitor and then undock them and put one on each monitor or did you drag the edge of the one panel over onto the other monitor? I have been struggling with the top left corner of the monitor and making it fit in my dash for a while now.

I find this very helpful than my previous suggestion regarding FS Panel Studio
http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/general-builder-questions-all-aircraft-types/24362-fs-panel-studio-multiple-monitor-setup.html


Do you know how to save that monitor setup in fsx? So at start up the panel goes to those screens at the same position every time?
File-Save
and on the bottom of the little window there a check box the shows "Save This As The Default Flight"




It's hard to tell. Did you take the bezels of those monitors and strip them down to just the screen? I wonder the same thing, think you can drill a hole it?
Yes I removed the monitor bezels.
Why would you want to drill holes in to the monitor bezels? To mount the panel overlay?



What about the annunciator and warning panel. Are you going to do those little analog led screens and program it yourself above the monitors?

I will be using an external hardware for the annouciator and use Opencockpits card. I'll deal with that later on, my main goal right now is to get the gauge bezels done ASAP.

Do you have pictures of your current project?? I would like to see 'em.

[jer166]

Sorry, drill a hole through the actual screen. I thought you mentioned that in a previous thread, it might be my mistake. Thanks for your time and responses. I started with the cockpit build first so maybe it will give everybody some ideas. I will try to post some pics tonight.

[jer166]

Here is some pics. I will have to take some updated ones soon. 694669476945

[jer166]

Couple More. 69486949

[Louie Mendez]

This is what is says when I clik on your attachment.

Message Invalid Attachment specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator (http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/sendmessage.php)

[jer166]

probably should post these in a diffent forum. I will post them in ga builder forum soon.

[jer166]

couple more

[Louie Mendez]

Nice! I really like it.
Can you Fedex Overnight that for me? =)

[jer166]

I can! I built to complete tear down to a panel system. It goes together and comes apart like a computer desk. I am going to take some pics of it tore down and the process to put it back together today, I will post them when I'm done. All I have left to do is fit the windscreen and figure out my instrument panel.

[BIGLDH]

VERY Nice! I've been wrestiling with a potential enclosure as the wife probably won't let me park the C-172 fuselage in the basement.... lol.... I might have to do some 'borrowing' of your design concepts.... Thanks for sharing!!!

[Louie Mendez]

This is just a test cut. I repositioned the hole for the screw a little inward, other than that it looks really good.
All other gauge designs are done. I'm currently working on the GNS430 faceplate it will have the chamfer and fillet feature just like the real thing.

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd462/northbaypic/image_zpsbc1732b6.jpg

6967

[Louie Mendez]

I'm going to redesign the GTX xponder I found the right size LCD for it.

ooops, replied on the wrong thread.

[nismo]

Hello Gents

I am new to these forums, however I have been following this thread with great interest.
I have been over to your site Louie and I must say I am very impressed.

Can't wait to start my C172. Need to clean out the garage first.
I have been using fsxpand for my gauges since 5.8. Now on V7.

If any of you fellow Cessna guys are interested take a look at the new Cessna gauges available from Flyware (http://www.cockpitsolutions.com/)

Here is a image of my panel now, click here (http://i.imgur.com/GcTq8IO.png) I will be changing to a overlay cutout like everyone else once I start the build.

Cheers
Sam

[Louie Mendez]

Thanks Mate! Sounds like we have the same garage issue. It was worse when I used to be deep in to muscle cars, oh man how I miss the stench of engine oil lol.

Much appreciated for sharing that link, I'm still undecided wether to go with reality xp, PM or Flyware.

Good luck on your project....and your garage =)

[nismo]

Thanks Mate

I still have that stench in my garage.lol

How are the bezels coming along. I dont see any for sale on your site.

What sealed it for me was the ability to modify their gauges as I needed.

[Louie Mendez]

Thanks Mate

I still have that stench in my garage.lol

How are the bezels coming along. I dont see any for sale on your site.

What sealed it for me was the ability to modify their gauges as I needed.

They are not ready for purchase yet. There are a couple more custom projects I'm working on, soon as I get them squared away I will jump on the bezels and finish the touch ups.
Have you tried running those gauges on a separate PC?

[nismo]

OK, Will look forward to purchasing from you.

Yeah, I am running them on a low spec PC as you see them in the link. Works well and you may run as many separate panels as you need. Either on the same PC or a third PC. You just need to run the server app on your sim PC via FSUIPC.

The list of gauges is awesome, but some are very plain looking. Like I said though, I am able to modify them as I need.

[kiloalpha]

It's pretty obvious the cutouts will need some minor adjustments. The hole for the yoke shaft has to be dropped by 3/4 of an inch it's not going to be 100% scale but it's close enough.

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd462/northbaypic/DSCN3033.jpg


Louie,

Thanks for all the work you have put on this website... I can't say that enough! I am curious where you are on this project? I am starting a sim of my own as a way for flight instruction and keeping my flight department proficient during those long periods of beautiful days. Also curious to know which size screens are shown here? I plan on pretty much making a copy of this for my sim with some artistic licensing of course! I was thinking of a G1000 panel but this looks like it would be more fitting for students AND our pilots.

Thanks!

[Louie Mendez]

Here there K-A!

The project is progressing as planned, thanks for asking. I'm trying to make the gauge bezel thinner than the original version. I have the pictures of the original bezels on this thread http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/general-aviation-ga-builder-disccusion/25414-random-pics-my-ga-build-11.html

The monitors I'm using are dell 15 inch and HP 17 inch. Hope that helps.

Good luck on your project!!

[wisdom]

looks like you wrote the book on how to do this. If your son gets board let me know I'll drop by and take that off your hands. Lol. Thanks for making the parts available to us as well. Stay in business, and I'll spend some money when I get to the building stage.

[surveyor780]

Yeah Louie, stay in business at least until I get my flap switch! Haha...

I'm also glad that someone is focusing on GA panels. Who needs another 737 pedestal on the market? ;)

[Louie Mendez]

We'll see if he gets bored from it, he is like the rest of us lmao!
Just as long he's doing good in school he can be on his Playstation and semi-finish cockpit-sim whenever he wants to.
I'll do my best to stay in business mate. I'm a repo-man/liquidator during the day lets hope I don't repo my own equipment if * hits the fan.


Yeah Louie, stay in business at least until I get my flap switch! Haha...

I'm also glad that someone is focusing on GA panels. Who needs another 737 pedestal on the market? :wink:

You're always cracking me up bro! btw I sent you some extra stuff that u may be able to use.

I have been out of the loop, the flood in Calgary got me worried for a while but the family is doing OK!