which 737 overhead to choose?

[dion73]

Hi which 737 overhead available is the most cost efficient yet best choice? i thought poldragonet is a good choice because it is the cheapest including all switches and of good quality, but they seem to be out of business judging from the no reply to sent mail complaints all over the internet. Next up are open cockpits, hispapanels and simworld and engravity or FDS if you're west of the Atlantic (i hate all these taxes that adding up and up). Anyone any ideas?

happ new year : )

dion

[Geremy Britton]

It might be worth factoring in GLB Flight Products as a viable option.
Just a thought.

[rjvcarvalho]

Have a look here:

http://www.simworld.pl/shop/index.php?cPath=1_4_9&osCsid=de452385e6d0af4208706bfb3908ed26

[oal331]

For my cockpit, i have used both FlyEngravity's and Opencockpit's panels
I used FlyEngravity's panels in my overhead, they was one from their first productions, without new annunciators. The quality is excellent and you have to pay for this !!!

For my pedestal i have Opencockpit's panels, they are also excellent quality in very smart price and i think it is also a very good solution for your overhead with new annunciators they offer.

Good luck !!

Eddie

[dion73]

Thanks for the replies : )

Sorry i forgot to mention the GLB overhead. I looked into it, but from the photos on the website it is hard to judge the product because of lack of detail. Also i am afraid the panels lack the contrast in daylight because it is stated that it is best to permanently backlight while in flight. When i finally decide when and what to buy i find a 3 month lead time a bit of a long wait... But nevertheless it remains a very interesting option : )

[nax228]

www.simworld.pl
outstanding quality and service. Think i got a pic or two in my buildpost. Link in signature.

I second you on the GLB website. pics are crappy quality and nothing you can use to decide a 1-2-300€ purchase for.
Mentioned in the guestbook a couple of times,but still they are rubbish.
Probably gonna get a slap by saying, but neverthenless... it's true.

[dion73]

Thanks again for replying,

yes i also like the pictures on the simworld side and will certainly keep them in mind. I've also been looking into their MIP products, but was able to buy a complete dual seat MIP setup secondhand for a fair price.
A little sidestep:
I live around the corner from Engravity and contacted them about their MIP which certainly is the best quality but for people that like DIY it is maybe better to get the glareshieldbumpers (that's mostly what I'd buy the engrvity for) at http://sites.google.com/site/flightfacsimile/ in australia or from FDS and build the rest yourself with panels from Simworld or Hispapanels ro Open Cockpits... This is more cost effective and leaves more options for placement of the elctronics/monitors/mechanics behind the panels.

[nax228]

Se3arch some post about the flightfacsimile before buying. Know there was some trouble getting through last year. Maybe they are back on track.

[jongas]

Hi

Flight Facsimile took over £100 from me for an order 1 year ago and have not delivered or replied to any emails (and I am not alone there are 5 other members here that I am aware of).

As far as overhead panels go, I have the poldragonet overhead and the quality is great and and price even better :-)

I went fot the kit version with all the switches to build myself, only negative is the knobs supplied needed a good sand before painting and a bit of experimenting in order to find the best way of getting the paint to take to the plastic.

I have panels from most of the main producers in my cockpit and I would say that the overhead panels are a close second to some FDS panels I have, and much better than the Hispapanels or Opencockpit offerings as good as they are.

Jon

[dion73]

Hi,

I had no idea to be careful before buying from flightfacsimile, it is a pity i kind of liked some of their products but good too know though...

So you did not have any problems with ordering from poldragonet? If the panels are good and the swithches OK, it would be a real bargain i guess.
My problem would be that i like to have some sort of human contact first before i just buy something. Also i like to get some sort of service when i inform about products. Maybe i should try again, from what i understand they have also been busy building stuff for FSc in italy?

thanks again for the replies : )

dion

[gutale]

As you have time to choose, it would be great idea to take a look to Sismo Soluciones Blue Line Overhead;
All the panels are already mounted with electronic... annunciators, switches, pushbuttons, encoders, rotaries, displays...
And ather options can be added as backlighting...

[nax228]

...or you could just buy a completely decent car...
Sismo is absolutely top notch product and a had the pleasure to play around with it in Lelystad 2 years ago, but the prizing is insane.
This year ( last year actually) we were shown the coop overhead from Engravity and CPFlight and it sure looked cool. Kinda pricy that one as well.

[dion73]

Hi,

i did look at the sismo products and indeed they seem to be very good. But i have to say the prices are exceeding my budget. At the same time, for the prices they are selling the backlighting should be included and not be an option i think. I just cannot imagine that backlighting should involve so much extra costs to be an "extra option" as it should be an inherent part of the overhead as is? But maybe i am wrong ofcourse...
Also i think i like to install the electronics myself, because i think i can learn a lot form it and have fun. Ofcourse there will be problems with this approach, but i kind of like solving problems, for me it is part of the hobby. Otherwise i would have gotten a Wii, and played golf on it : )

thanks for the tip though,

dion

[ian@737ng.co.uk]

sorry to butt in late here chaps............but,
i've been absent recently because of several commitments, one of which is i have been building a Simworld overhead for a friend.
i'm absolutely stunned with the quality of this unit. very easy to build and being aluminium, it's lightweight into the bargain.
the hardest part is keeping the wiring clear for the backlight :o
i've finished most of the inputs (just waiting for some black pushbutton switches and other components) and a Phidgets card will be
here tomorrow to light it up.
here's some shots of build so far, i'll post some more when it's lit up...... well worth looking at.
regards captains.........

ian

http://www.737ng.co.uk/simworld_oh/oh27.jpg
http://www.737ng.co.uk/simworld_oh/oh26.jpg
http://www.737ng.co.uk/simworld_oh/oh23.jpg
http://www.737ng.co.uk/simworld_oh/oh22.jpg
http://www.737ng.co.uk/simworld_oh/oh14_special.jpg

[Sismo]

After to take a look and comparing prices with other companies, I can say that Sismo is cheaper in many cases according to quality-price for a complete set of elements which is included in the different Overhead Lines.

For example, Sismo offers different kinds of prices for the Overhead according to the needs.
If you prefer to make electronic connections by yourself, you can save even more money just asking for a personalized budget saving even 4.000 €, but that depends of the skills of the builders acquiring by separated parts-> I think this info is quite well for builders! :)

For that, it is important to know that Sismo can confused with the prices, because they are for complete solutions; contact maps, connections, cards, manufacturing, materials, software interface for addons, SUPPORT … as for example Blue Line (less than 1.900€ in Christmas) which has a very adjusted cost in order to a special matt paint as the real one, until 4 layers paint and primmer trying to take care over the backlighting…

Sismo trusts in Overhead Blue Line as a good idea because you will have all the necessary parts for mounting it… probably you will not get cheaper price to a similar quality when you add all the material that you need step by step …

[dion73]

hi,

thanks for the replies again.

Thes pictures you are showing sure look nice Ian, i guess the polish guys are ahead in the race for this one.
(i am getting a lot of valuable info from your site, thanks for that too : )
With the Sismo overhead i would also be very happy, but still if i built a lot myself i can manage well below 1900,- + VAT + shipping= 2000 + , i think. but again maybe i am wrong - which i really am sometimes : )
I guess we can say Engravity, Sismo, FDS, cockpitsonic, FSC are at the high end of the market where budget and DIY is of a lesser significance. Whereas Simworld, Poldragonet, Open Cockpits, Hispapanels and GLB allow for more DIY options and are more cost effective and not necesssarily of lesser quality.

[diegov]

Hi Dion,

I can vouch for SimWorld. They are relatively cheap in price and do great panels. I have their AFT overhead and the quality is very good. Also Filip and Krzysztof provide great customer service.

I chose FDS for my MIP, Engravity for my FWD overhead and Simworld for my AFT
All of these companies produce great panels.

The FDS and Simworld panels have a kind of matte finish, which the Engravity panels are a little glossy. You cant really tell in the dark, but that give you and idea of the texture.

One thing to note though is that Engravity and Simworld panels need to be backlit and while FDS is more expensive, if you take into account that their panels come with backlighting that uses real aircraft bulbs to give you accurate 737 backlighting, the price is not too bad.

Hope this help

Diego

[dion73]

Thanks Diego,

Something tells me i should get the simworld overhead : )

[No Longer Active]

I think Richard Hutchinson has the Simworld overhead and it looks aswome, better than some others I have seen.

I guess its this, if you pay peanuts you get monkeys! Spend a little extra and you get the quality!

[capetonian]

Dion, where in NL are you?

[dion73]

Hi capetonian,

cape finisterre, good hope, horn? I used to be a sailor, hence the stupid hat : )
Living in Leiden.

[ian@737ng.co.uk]

Thanks Diego,

Something tells me i should get the simworld overhead : )

hi dion..........
more pics of the simworld O/H panel here.
http://www.737ng.co.uk/help.htm
we'll be starting to light it up shortly, i'll post more pics when it's more complete.
and if you live Leiden, have a chat with JWS, i'm sure he's lives in your town.
best regards

ian

[dion73]

Thanks Ian,

I just saw the pictures. I think i will like this Simworld overhead.
I don't know who JWS is but i'll have a look around on the forum : )

kind regards,

dion

[dion73]

PS

By the way i see you are using 2 leo bodnar cards for the overhead, what other I/O cards do you use in this particular case for displays and gauges/servo's?
I find it hard to choose between all the different options (FDS syscards hispapanels/SISMO ethernet cards, Open cockpits, Simcockpitshop, Leo Bodnar etc?).

Anyone have an opinion on I/O options? : )

I'll be back here next week, as i am on a course for nephelometer maintenance in Frankfurt. kind regards,

dion

[amando]

Hi dion,

I think Ian will use Phidgets 64 Advance for outputs and Leo Bodnard for inputs. I have choosen Phidgets 64 Adv as well for my overhead. Other cards must be used to handle gauges and LCD controler.

Regards,

Amando

[dion73]

Hi Amando,

thanks, so many cards.... I would like an all in 1 kind of a solution. Maybe the simcockpitshop cards, or FDS syscards...

kind regards,

dion

[saabpilot]

...
thanks, so many cards.... I would like an all in 1 kind of a solution. Maybe the simcockpitshop cards, or FDS syscards...


Difficult to achieve! :cry:
I use SYS1x for Overhead, Wx Radar and Fire suppression.
CP Flights MIP737 card for the MIP/Glareshield
Bodnar for some other tasks via FSUIPC plus the steering tiller.

Best,
Bjorn

[ian@737ng.co.uk]

Hi dion,

I think Ian will use Phidgets 64 Advance for outputs and Leo Bodnard for inputs. I have choosen Phidgets 64 Adv as well for my overhead. Other cards must be used to handle gauges and LCD controler.

Regards,

Amando

yes correct, i have setup an LED64 ADV to handle the outputs. it works very well. the plan is initially to 'hard wire' some seven segment displays
for the land alt, flt alt and the electrical panel voltage/freq displays until i can find time to play with counter and clock IC's.
have a great weekend chaps.....

ian

[saabpilot]

I do have a Poldragonet OH delivered in August.
Very good service from Jacub !!
Another friend have his latest motorized TQ - also promt and problemfree delivery.

Poldragonet OH have great looking panels and dummies - all switches/LED:s/annunciators were included ! Also all "panels" mounted in a neat frame (box).

Only backdraw is that its annunciators are made for 1 LED only except the dual light blue ones. However outstanding value for the money.

Another friend have ordered SimWorld OH so I can give you impressions when it has arrived in some weeks ahead.

Bjorn

[Joe Lavery]

Hi Dion,

I have an Engravity overhead (mainly) but also the FDS-B737NG-ELEC-CAB-SYS including the FDS backlit panels to go with it. This works very well, displaying the correct voltages etc and links with the cabin pressure panel so you can adjust the flight and land altitudes.

I control the whole overhead with the FDS-SYS1 card which has 128 inputs and 256 outputs. This is not the cheapest option but it is certainly the easiest to install and setup. You simply have to select the function for each switch or LED from a pre-defined drop down list.
It also caters for dual intensity annunciators and provides enough capacity to cover the Aft overhead as well. Incidentally this is the section I'm working on at the moment.

As you've found out there are so many different options to choose from, it just depends how involved you want to be and how much time (and money) you have at your disposal.

Ian's site is a superb source of information, and well worth a visit.

Best of luck

Joe.

[dion73]

Hi,

Yes the FDS cards are a wonderful thing i think, maybe a little more expensive, but 2 x bodnar + 1 phidgets + ... is not a lot cheaper. Also 2 times open cockpit master + USB expansion + USB outputs + ... is not a lot cheaper...
I also think the Sismo/hispapanels ethernet cards are something to look into, is there anyone here who has them working?
I would be very interested if these can be easily interfaced with the 737 suite from FlightDeckSoftware, but their site mentions to contact them about the possibilities (which i'll do).
I'll buy the FlightDeckSoftware suite if the PMDG NGX turns out to be a mousetrapping device : ) I read somewhere the NGX will have an SDK that allows cockpitbuilders to interface all sorts of contraptions, i hope this is true, although it will not be easy to get a DIY live & working HUD : )
Also good news about the poldragonet overhead, i would like to see the pictures that compare it with the simworld OH.


thanks for all the input here,

dion

[Joe Lavery]

In Fact Dion, to cover the same input/outputs as the FDS card you would need 4 x Phidget 64s and 2 of Leo's cards which is actually a lot more expensive. Incidentally I don't have any commercial interest in FDS, I'm merely stating what I've found during the build of my own 737.

Cheers
Joe.

[capetonian]

this benwilliams seems to be a spammer ,

[dion73]

Hello,

benwilliams? did i miss something?

[Joe Lavery]

Some idiot called Ben Williams was posting spam nonesense to a number of threads. I also reported it and he has now been removed, and all his posts with him.
I think they were probably removed before you had a chance to see them, so the post from Capetonian would seem illogical without the spam he was referring to.

Hope that makes sense ;)

Regards
Joe.

[dion73]

Hi Joe, that makes sense.

i guess some idiots can't even find their way to their own forum then :)

[mlscotti]

Hi everyone, may i say what a great conversation you have going here. I too am looking for a good quality overhead. My difficulty is I love the FDS products but a bit $. The other issue i have is that i'm in the states and shipping gets quite hefty. I currently have a home built overhead for an ERJ and am using the FDS sys board, which is awesome. But am now finally moving over the the big boy's world of the 737's. I feel i am constantly watching the market to see if the US dollar will make my purchase actually possible.

I am currently running with Opencockpits mcp and efis, PM software, I have a throttle from Throttletek. I just purchased a gear lever from Flyengravity, but received one **** of a wake up call for buying across the pond. I just about paid double to have the lever shipped the the US. :mad: I too would love to put the overhead together to save some $, and with the FDS card it makes it rather easy.

[amando]

My best references for panels are from www.simworld.pl their prices are affordable and shipping prices to US are hialmost the same to some countries of Europe. We all have this problems with this hobby. Shipping charges. For 737 management Prosim 737 from Marty is getting better and better for a 737 simulator. I have seen people using FDS cards with it, and I think he told me FDS support could be included by default on prosim 737 logics. Ian's new overhead project is based on simworld and it appears to have superb quality and lower prices than others.

By the way, I don't work for simworld :)

Hope you get your project done and enjoy with your sim.

[dion73]

Hi Scotti,

If i were in the US i would buy real panels form ebay, or scavange the boneyards and the "angel fire" site. add some switches and make your own knobs and you could have a great overhead for a fair price i'd think... I would love to buy real cockpitseats and yokes from the US, but i would pay one 2/5 of the price for shipping, 2/5 for import taxes and VAT and 1/5 for the actual goods.
Maybe we should set up a smuggling route for flight simmers back and forth across the Atlantic : )
There is Brazil panels also, they have an overhead... Apart from FDS in Canada, there must be some company in North America to pruduce panels of some sort?

dion

[jskibo]

Hi Scotti,

If i were in the US i would buy real panels form ebay, or scavange the boneyards and the "angel fire" site. add some switches and make your own knobs and you could have a great overhead for a fair price i'd think... I would love to buy real cockpitseats and yokes from the US, but i would pay one 2/5 of the price for shipping, 2/5 for import taxes and VAT and 1/5 for the actual goods.
Maybe we should set up a smuggling route for flight simmers back and forth across the Atlantic : )
There is Brazil panels also, they have an overhead... Apart from FDS in Canada, there must be some company in North America to pruduce panels of some sort?

dion

I think you would have a rude awakening at the price of trying to buy real overhead panels, then of course, backlighting them.

For North America, FDS is your only supplier. They do cost, but quality is superb and the IBL is a sight to be seen. SHipping isn't that bad on the small stuff, and even on my MIP / CDU base / Glareshield it was 1/3rd of what it cost to get my throttle from France.

[dion73]

hi jskibo,

i had no idea, the last time i was on business in the US i was eleven years old, hooking up with mickey and fozzie bear : )

There is also Vitor Amaral in Portugal who is delivering all you want for your 737 cockpit for very reasonable prices. Kilo's will be kilo's though..

dion

[my737sim]

I'm going to jump in here and say any panel manufacturer you go with is going to deliver some good quality. I am a mixed cockpit myself. I have the FDS MIP/Glare/CDU bay, and the Fly Engravity Overhead and CDU. I had to back light the overhead myself (and built my own frame) but that was pretty easy since all the panels are right next to each other. I would not have wanted to do that on the MIP, and the FDS IBL backlighting was the best choice for me.

And then there are real parts of course. Sometimes you will find a deal. I bought real 737 light switches, as they were cheaper then reproductions.

When it comes to cost, I'll quote something I read a year ago which was "Well if you think that part is expensive, consider the cost of a real, brand new version of the same part."

Building a sim is not cheap. Period. That's why it takes many of of years and we still aren't 100% complete :) All of the recommendations on this thread are excellent and it will just come down to what fits you and your budget. :)

Good luck!

Best,

Matt

[dion73]

Hi Guys,

It has been a while, but i ordered the complete simworld overhead in the end : ) I am very much looking forward to receiving and building this one. I will interface it through the FDS sys1x board, which proves to be a lot more cost effective than most people think because you not only have 128 inputs and 256(!) outputs but also all the wiring plus connectors and a 5V powersource. For gauges i'll use open cockpits and 4 euro servos from conrad (if i connect them).
I am also planning on connecting the airco systems to an actuator on the main window of my "hobbyroom" : )

dion

[nax228]

I've finally come around to actually build my Simworld OH. Been lying around for over a year now...
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_6cfkT1JgF-0/TcfPhTqPOLI/AAAAAAAAAXM/aNExKVcrz7k/s640/IMG_0014.JPG

Tried different frames, but the original 737-300 just didn't fit and an aluframe I made didn't do the trick eighter so I'm back to the good old wood :D
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_6cfkT1JgF-0/Ta3ZH1dDpDI/AAAAAAAAAUA/IL4H8BVIQm8/s640/19042011453.jpg
.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_6cfkT1JgF-0/TbAP841jyZI/AAAAAAAAAVw/ojJa-1qaF0s/s640/21042011462.jpg

Good buy and good luck

[dion73]

5295529652975298

Hi,

Like Nax i have decided for the simworld overhead with all bells and whistles. I will wire it to OC servo's and FDS sys1x board. Also the knobs i got from FDS and spraypainted them myself.
I thought some more detailed pictures would be welcome for further study of which and what to choose. I am veryvery happy with the simworld overhead, and i am sure i will get ALL of their other stuff when i have the means : )

Nax: thanks for all the help on the steering column subject : )

skol,

dion

[lenne]

Very nice and detailed!Im awating the poldragonet kit...4th week of waiting now,my fingers
really starting to itch:)

Very nice project you got going on and thank's for sharing!
/lenne

[nax228]

Glad to share my ideas.
Looking at the pics in last post, I have mounted the gaugeframes from the bacside... only showing the ring, not the ears to fasten it with on the front.

Look at this picture and see what I mean:
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-In3rlvSPfqI/TfcJoJHJKXI/AAAAAAAAAd8/_X5e6H_ISTs/s512/IMG_0267.JPG

Here is a few pics from a real 737 cockpit I visited the other week:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-xnzvsiqOABM/Tf8EYmLSAUI/AAAAAAAAAfM/3mBJ_F-3458/s720/IMG_0147.JPG
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-kjEWHGYTVGg/Tf8EvP9OLPI/AAAAAAAAAfc/XIRxiYdSiQg/s720/IMG_0149.JPG

Spot the difference?

OBS!!!: Another thing... I strongly recomend buying the hardware kit from Simworld to, not the hardwarekit from OC. The OC nuts that go on all the big switches does not fit in the Simworld panels. Takes a lot of work to sand/file all the nuts. Simworlds nuts fit perfect. Another great thing with the switches from Simworld is that they do not interfer with backlighting as the backsine (housing) of their swithces is round and small. OC switches are BIG and square and will give shadows to some of the backlighting!!!

[dion73]

5300530153025303

Hi, ofcourse i was just checking if people are paying attention. I will never admit i don't have a clue : )
I corrected i it and here's some more photos : )
dion

[dion73]

Hi,

Another update, apart from working on the MIP, yokes, projection and other stuff i am wiring the overhead, so here's some more pictures.
In glued in the announciators and LEDS with robson elastic kit/ Iam soldering each announciators leds in parallel and group 8 announciators per one common ground, as this matches the configuration required for the FDS interface card. I put the red connectors on the anodes so i can easily see what is what.
I got the white toggle caps from GLB flight products. Servo's have not been installed yet, at first i wanted to use the OC gauges, but this is totally unnecessary as the Simworld OH is delivered with dummy gauges that only need a servo and a servocard and a little imput from Prosim for instance : ) I started wiring the Leds with individual wirres, but decided microribbon is an easier alternative. i try to use different colors of heatshrink for each announciator in the group. I hope this will work : )

kind regards,

dion

[ian@737ng.co.uk]

looking at these pictures made me think of building Steve Mitchell's overhead for him.
this really is a nice piece of quality kit. everything just went together easily and
really looked good. you made a great choice dion. i suspect you are very happy :o
and i've now got another simworld overhead coming over for assembly and wiring up
for another colleague in the next couple of weeks. really looking forward to that.
good idea about the coloured heatshrink, i must remember that :o
have a great day

rgds

ian

[dion73]

Hi Ian,

Yes i am very happy with, i also just received the MIP-kit from Sim World with is also absolutely fabulous : ) I have to cut some holes to make them fit but that will be worth the trouble. I am also thinking about thier new pedestal panels, but i am a bit scared of the amount of workit will take it to make all the displays and radios myself....

Also i am still interested in stories of other overheads, so if anyone has any experience with poldragonet, sismo, OC, engravity and you name it please respond : )

kind regards,

dion

[KLM077]

Hallo/Hi Dion,

Hier nog een link naar mijn project wat ik afgelopen voorjaar heb afgerond.

Hereby the link to my overhead project which i succesfully finished april this year.


http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/showthread.php/19295-Forward-Overhead-Panel-737-Interfacing?p=119234&highlight=#post119234

If you have any questions, please let me know!

Best regards,

Bas van Leeuwen
KLM077

[dion73]

Hi Bas,

I have already seen this thread and visited your website a couple of times. You have a very nice project going on : )
Also i like the gauges you made very much.

dion