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View Full Version : I was Obliged to ILS land... your opinion pls



Nick1150
11-28-2009, 06:57 AM
Yesterday 27 of November 2009 we had Real Ops in LGAV - Eleftherios Venizelos, Athens, Greece.

A lot of people, a lot of ATCs, nice to fly in such conditions !!! Everything was great, many simmers were approaching LGAV and there were a lot of interest in general.

Just a note to have in mind. I always land visual. I like the landing procedure to be visual even in the worst weather scenarios, and this is what keeps me in the sim hobby. So from the biggest to the smallest airport I land VOR.

Let's go to the point... When I reached near LGAV_App space I contacted with approach and I informed the ATC, as I always do, that I was going visual. He did not respond. I followed all procedure, and on the final approach 8 miles from the RW, he told me that I was free for ILS procedure for RW 03L. I responded that I was visual and that I did not have the time to go ILS, so he responded that I cannot go visual, and only ILS is permitted. I connected to the TWR, and he responded that indeed I must do ILS landing only.

Of course I did a go around and ILS landed as instructed after few minutes.

My question now is... Is ILS obligatory ? From what I know I have evry right to land VOR or ILS. Is that true ?

Thanks

Nick

Sean Nixon
11-28-2009, 08:48 AM
You can land however you like.

At 8 miles and on final approach, the controller has no way of knowing what type of approach you are doing anyway.

Obviously the controller has authority about where you go in his airspace, so he may want to vector all aircraft the same way, or for them to carry out a specific procedure, but once that procedure or his instruction puts you on final approach then you can land how you like.

Provided you are visual off course and can be sure of staying visual all the way down.

Be wary of missed approach procedures tho. They may differ between different approaches, and the controller would expect you to do the correct one.

That's how I understand it.

capetonian
11-28-2009, 10:44 AM
Well, .. if, at the controlling airport the conditions were IMC then they might not give you the option to do a visual landing.

Sean Nixon
11-28-2009, 10:53 AM
He said he was visual at 8 miles.

capetonian
11-28-2009, 11:22 AM
Yes, .. but if you are flying with weather set to clear or something static you might have visual on the airfield but the controller might be using something like FSmetar (Awesome little program) to get actual updated real world weather, .. in that case it might be IMC for the airport and from your cockpit it might look like the nicest day of the year.....

That's what I meant.

Sean Nixon
11-28-2009, 11:41 AM
Ah, I see what you mean. I was referring to real world, apologies.

Sean

Nick1150
11-29-2009, 02:24 AM
Ah, I see what you mean. I was referring to real world, apologies.

Seanwhat's the difference as far as the procedure is converned ?

t1dUs
11-29-2009, 04:38 AM
You can always ask for another approach to the controller, but he/she is the authority, so he may accept your request or decline it. There's usually no problem to change type of approach, unless there is congestion of traffic in the frequency.

Nick1150
11-29-2009, 04:43 AM
usually no problem to change type of approach, unless there is congestion of traffic in the frequency.that was the case... so can the ATC order a certain kind of approach ?

Sean Nixon
11-29-2009, 07:54 AM
Once on final approach, in good VMC, I can't think of any reason why in real life a controller would insist you fly the ILS.

HoustonFirefox
11-29-2009, 11:19 AM
Nick, I'm on the other end of the spectrum. I fly with a large VA in B757/B767 aircraft mostly and put "ILS APPROACHES PREFERRED" in the comments section of my flight plan.

As a RW pilot, I can say that the only time an airport is closed to VFR (visual) traffic is when the weather falls below a set minimum (as seen by the controller). Like others have said, you may have had perfect weather on your sim but the controllers may have had different (VATSIM?) weather running.

On a side note, even if I'm on a visual approach, in perfect weather, I'll back it up with the ILS and/or NDB and review the missed approach procedures just in case I lose visual contact with the runway on final. Doing this also confirms that I'm approaching the intended runway and not another airport close by. On parallel approaches, backing up your navigation with the ILS also makes sure you don't stray into another aircraft airspace ;)

t1dUs
11-29-2009, 12:50 PM
that was the case... so can the ATC order a certain kind of approach ?

It's not a matter of ordering a certain kind of approach it is a matter of security and regulating flow of traffic, also take into account the separation between traffics.
If you go visual you are responsible for staying clear of other traffic, while on IFR the controller has already given you the proper separation via vectors, or keeping you in the holding pattern for a certain amount of time, or other stuff.
That's why even thought VMC applies ILS are flown, unless otherwise required by crew or flightplan limitations.
But the general rule is to fly the ILS whenever possible, then VOR, then NDB and last but not least visual.
Hope this helps.