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warvet
04-13-2009, 12:48 AM
Wow Trev,
Sorry to hear that puts you in a tough position for sure. Hmmmmmm guess we didn't win WWII after all :) lol
So let me re write my post to JOE C.
Joe,
I really hope you get better and our best wishes for your speedy recovery without any sort of conentation whatsoever that may elude itself to any sort of focus on anyone other than ourselves hoping you feel better. :)
In the immortal words of AK49er in a past post lol "UNREAL!"

"Oh yes and a small health notice to any and all anal rententive persons try Maalox or some other similar type laxative it may help however its JMO and doesnt reflect this forums opinion as a collective or singular :)
Tim
Notice:

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Attention all MyCockpit Members.

Due to recent events, and the sensitive nature of Religious discussions, it is with regret that we (MyCockpit, Inc.) must make a policy forbidding any form of Religious discussion. Formal complaints have been made, and we cannot allow offensive or possibly inappropriate content.

In this particular situation, I personally was accused of censoring threads when I attempted to edit the offensive content. I thought this was the best solution.

I hereby publicly apologize for altering anybody's postings.

From this point forward, any reference to Religion may result in removal of privileges on this Website.
__________________
Trevor Hale

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Matt Olieman
04-13-2009, 08:42 AM
I'm saddened we (MyCockpit, Inc.) have to make a rule regarding discussion or remarks of a religious nature. I thought we all new the unwritten rule.

"You never talk Religion and Politics amongst friends and business associates."

Personally "Religion" is a very personal and private matter. I don't have a need or a necessity to broadcast my believes.

There are so many variants of religions, it could be made into a web site with more topics and discussion then this site can contain. I don't and believe most of you feel the same way, this site is not about religion it's about Flight-Sim Building and that's where it ends.

Therefore, lets get to the business of building cockpit parts and continue to help each other.

Matt Olieman

sas550
04-13-2009, 08:57 AM
I'm saddened we (MyCockpit, Inc.) have to make a rule regarding discussion or remarks of a religious nature. I thought we all new the unwritten rule.

"You never talk Religion and Politics amongst friends and business associates."

Personally "Religion" is a very personal and private matter. I don't have a need or a necessity to broadcast my believes.

There are so many variants of religions, it could be made into a web site with more topics and discussion then this site can contain. I don't and believe most of you feel the same way, this site is not about religion it's about Flight-Sim Building and that's where it ends.

Therefore, lets get to the business of building cockpit parts and continue to help each other.

Matt Olieman


Amen :grin:

warvet
04-13-2009, 02:50 PM
Matt,
i do whole hardedly agree with you not to discuss politics or religion in any forum not created for that purpose..however to stop people from wishing each other Happy E a s t e r which most of us have been doing for all of our lives or simply saying our p r a y ee r s are with you in hopes you get better do not in anyway define any religion or lack of it is an expression of our concern for our friends betterment, nothing more. Because of a couple ppl's disastifaction we are held hostage in the way in which we talk. I 100% agree to speak of anything directly defining a particular belief system or absence of would indeed create un needed conflict, however we live in a society of democracy and free speech Matt. Thats honestly like saying because a few members here speak a different language No one is allowed to speak english. Anyhow its your forum and yes it is for building cockpits but remember this forum is made up of people who take freedom, democracy very seriously and i do not feel the words that I have mentioned would or should in any way infringe on anyones beliefs or rights. I know i am not the only one who believes this but I also know that I am one of the only ones that actually got a big enough pair to make this point publically. At the end of the day its your forum your rules and I will respect that, however it is important I at least render my point of view as well.I just think that a redefinition of the boundaries should be re evaluated because we have gone too far Left wing in hopes of appeasing a small few, I will not speak on this issue again.

Tim

mounty
04-13-2009, 03:18 PM
I didn't see anything in the supposed offenders comments that criticised, defamed or belittled religion. As Warvet stated we live in a democracy (although I wonder about that these days) where there is freedom of speech. To say that one is praying for someones recovery is not inciteful. If there are people out there that object to a statement like that, then they need to recognize that the majority of mycockpit viewers do not object to such. They are also obviously intolerant of others viewpoints and rights. We are entitled to our opinions and to say what we want to as long as we are not criticizing another or their religion.

From what I can read, it also looks like these individuals didn't have the courage to publish their complaints, but must have emailed directly. It would appear that the minority are ruling over the majority and I am very dissappointed that this action has been taken.

Not everyone is going to be happy with what everyone says - that's life, and we have to get along with others so there needs to be some room for frfeedom of thought and speech.

Rob

Holclo
04-13-2009, 04:09 PM
Wholeheartedly agree with Tim and Rob. Things are getting to a dreadful state in this world today.
Bill

Matt Olieman
04-13-2009, 04:52 PM
I'm sorry you didn't understand my earlier post. There's nothing wrong with wishing each other a happy holidays, such as Christmas, Easter, Rosh Hashana, Yom Kippur, or any others. Their are many of them. Or to say you are in my prayers and say I thank God, for whatever.

You're wrong when you say the majority feel the way you do. The majority stays silent because they belief in the intelligence approach of staying neutral, it's not about "courage".

"Entitled," what about the respect and entitlement of those who disagree with you're beliefs.

Matt Olieman

Another thought: Some of you didn't see what was starting to happen in an other thread. It was entirely inappropriate for this site and disrespectful and inconsiderate of others.

TasKiNG
04-13-2009, 05:11 PM
Matt,

Thanks for clearing this up but I can see how it looked like a total ban on anything slightly religious when the message on the Home screen read :-


From this point forward, any reference to Religion may result in removal of privileges on this Website.

mounty
04-13-2009, 06:21 PM
We are "entitled" to our different opinions and beliefs as are others. One persons belief does not have to be accepted by another. However, as long as we are not judging or criticizing the others beliefs and accept that there are differences (and it's those differences that make us unique) we are open to others opinions and beliefs. Just because someone might not approve of a certain religion or belief, it does not give them the right to be critical of the person or their beliefs. It's about tolerance and acceptance of differences. Intolerance of others religion or beliefs has been the root of most wars.

Rob

mauriceb
04-13-2009, 06:49 PM
I for one totally agree with Matt & Trev. Their position has nothing to do with censorship, but it has all to do with making everyone welcome & comfortable here. I'm also 100% sure that whatever was 'censored' was very specific to one or more religion whose members feel compelled to advertise & profess their beliefs as the only true belief.

Just as those of you who are deeply religious might feel very uncomfortable in an atheist forum for instance, so too those who are not of the same faith can feel very uncomfortable in a forum where a specific religious faith seems a pre-requisite in order to feel like you belong.

And I am one who on a previous occasion complained about a specific religious reference which I found bordered on preaching. And that reference was certainly not an innocuous comment like the ones Matt mentioned such as God help, or God bless or Merry whatever or I pray for you.

I'm 100% sure that whomever makes religious comments that others might find uncomfortable know exactly that their comments will have such an effect but choose to make them anyway in order to proudly proclaim & 'sell' their beliefs, and this has nothing to do with tolerance or with what this forum is all about.

Maurice

Matt Olieman
04-13-2009, 06:50 PM
Intolerance of others religion or beliefs has been the root of most wars.
Rob

Exactly!!!!!

Matt Olieman

mounty
04-13-2009, 07:14 PM
Unless I am completely out to lunch wasn't the censoring in relation to emails to Joe C? If it was another thread, then please re-open that thread for us to see.

Maurice,

It sounds like you have not read the thread re Joe C from you comment. If I am wrong in my assumption, then I apologise.

Rob

Matt Olieman
04-13-2009, 07:46 PM
Rob, I don't know of any e-mails to Joe C.

The other thread was never removed, it's still there except for the unmentionables.

Matt Olieman

mounty
04-13-2009, 11:27 PM
Not really emails, but posts from people saying they were glad to see Joe out of the hospital and other comments that were censored using ****.

We really need tolerance guys, not knee jerk reactions to what a fellow builder says.

I think there has been some overreaction by people, and what wasn't a big deal has now become one.

Rob

warvet
04-14-2009, 02:43 AM
Ok seeing as I was a huge part of this mess, i will try to help fix it. As I see it Trev received some concerns about a certain post that tended to be somewhat heavy with religious overtones and out of respect and concern trev immediately went about trying to quickly appease the situation, however in his rush to do so inadverently removed all traces of anything that could have a religious bios to it and understandably so. Myself and others immediately did not clearly understand his actions and felt that his solutions unforunately tended to go too far the other way and while trying to protect others rights violated ours. However after an in depth discussion with Matt and after some clarity the situation has been resolved. As it stands now and as I se it and if im mistaken feel free to correct me, any uses of general religious terms such as god bless , or our prayers are with you, or merry Christmas etc are fine just as long as they do not become a prayer style post or any form of religious preaching or discussion so as not to offend anyone who may feel more private towards their beliefs. So with that said if I upset anyone unintentionally I certainly do appologize. My whole issue was not one of religion it was of rights, free speech and personal liberty all the things that alot of us fought for, therefore have alot of value. So Matt has been very diplomatic as has Trevor in handling this situation and so as not to inflame it any further, I recommend not to add anything to this of an inflammatory nature and lets get on with the cockpit side of things.I would like to thank Rob and Maurice for their positionsin this matter and the way in which it was conducted. As for Joe my friend I certainly am very sorry if you in any way were placed in the midle of this schmozzle but we do wish you well and our thoughts are with you to get well and be up to your old self as soon as possible. Overal i think that we can learn from this to as Rob put it , don't use a knee jerk reaction and take a few breaths to think through any actions consequences especially when this indeed is a global forum so many worlds, lifestyles and energys are interacting on a daily basis and it indeed is very easy to unintentionally offend one of our members from a different ountry. to all good luck with your projects and some of you may think Im a jerk etc but ya know what that isnt going to get your cockpit completed and based on surprisingly the amount of kind and sincere emails I recd from members i guess Im not as hated as I thought , so thank you to all my friends I never knew i had in this hobby your support and kind words were awesome and appreciated.lol. Still waiting on my hugs and warm fuzzys from the 49th state though :( :) lol

All the best
Tim

ak49er
04-14-2009, 02:56 AM
"In the immortal words of AK49er in a past post lol "UNREAL!"

I don't comprehend the relevance of this inclusion, but I did not read the OP that started this.

I wouldn't have responded but my name was dragged in here for some reason.

This however is indeed a slippery slope.

I see all points having merit, and in the spirit of Occams' Razor, I agree

"You never talk Religion and Politics amongst friends and business associates."

This of course helps to avoid any of this controversy. Having said that,

I can and have been wished a happy *******, and delighted in my friends eight days of *********, which seemed really cool. But when someone mentions ****, ****,*******, or even ***** I don't feel offended just left-out of the loop. Another friend was an *******, but I don't blame her, as her parents were ********, so she never had a chance to learn any other way.8-)

Now , let's all **** that the Sim Manufacturers drop their prices, so we can soar to the *******, and fly over ***'* green earth.

Mods, this is not meant to be mocking, I just had so much fun reading the other posts, it was like an on line version of Ad-Libs.

Any one watch the Jimmy Kimmel shows segment, "Unnecessary Censorship?" When placed or timed correctly, the results can be downright **********!:wink:

warvet
04-14-2009, 03:03 AM
49er "UNREAL" was your quote to me regarding my pt of reference regarding BOM :) Now how about that hug :) lol

Tim

ak49er
04-14-2009, 03:11 AM
Sorry Tim, here in the 49th, we don't hug men.

But I would have to salute a good Soldier.

Now, as you said, let's get back to flying...