Arming spoilers

[mmakela]

Hello,
I'm interested to how spoilers are armed in real.
Before taxi it is performed I suppose?
So, I read the manual and it says spoiler lever is pulled to armed position.
If we think spoilers movement there is five detents first is 0?,
then comes second, third is 1/2 and after four comes full. Does the pilot push
the lever to first detent and then pull the lever up? How is this arming mechanism
working? Thanks!

[Efe Cem Elci]

Once you pull the lever up from its notch at DOWN position, you set it just past the notch on the metal where it says ARMED and that's all.

Not sure if thats what you meant or why you would want to arm spoilers before taxi...

[dodiano]

The procedure on the airbus is after engine start:

- MODE SELECTOR ... IGN
- APU BLEED ... OFF
- APU MASTER ... OFF
- SPEEDBRAKE ... ARM
- RUDDER TRIM .... ZERO
- FLAPS........ AT T/O SETTING
- PITCH TRIM SET.
- AFTER START CHECKLIST

You arm the Speed brakes/spoilers on ground in case of an Rejected Take off

Regards,

Roberto

[fweinrebe]

Spoilers are normally armed before landing. The FS2004 default key assignment is "SHIFT + /".

The reason it is done is that on touchdown they will deploy automatically, thereby distorting the airflow over the wing. This reduces the creation of lift and therefore helps keeping the aircraft stick to the ground.

Spoiler lever operations probably differs from manufacturer to manufacturer.

[dodiano]

And when landing the Procedure is:

- Gear Down
- spoilers arm
- taxi/turnoff lights ... ON

Regards,

Roberto

[mmakela]

Thanks for clarifying this but...
Project Magenta T.O memo asks a pilot to confirm "spoilers armed" before take off?
If I don't do it, the memo is not completed. Is there a bug in PM memo and it should
say : "speedbrake armed"?
Yours,
Markus

[TobiBS]

Speedbrake and spoilers are generelly the same, at least the same surfaces on the wing are used for it and therefore the lever is the same, but of course the speedbrakes that are used in the air do not deploy so much as spoilers are doing it on ground. Therefore the term is correct.

[Michael Carter]

Thanks for clarifying this but...
Project Magenta T.O memo asks a pilot to confirm "spoilers armed" before take off?
If I don't do it, the memo is not completed. Is there a bug in PM memo and it should
say : "speedbrake armed"?
Yours,
Markus


Is there a Flight Control System test for the speedbrake/spoilers to be performed per checklist on the ground before takeoff?

The 727 has this procedure, but they are moved OUT of the armed detent to DOWN after the test. This is just to ensure the alert is working should you deploy speedbrakes with the flaps in any position except UP.

Bad spoiler mixing juju happens with this airplane.

[TobiBS]

Is there a Flight Control System test for the speedbrake/spoilers to be performed per checklist on the ground before takeoff?

The 727 has this procedure, but they are moved OUT of the armed detent to DOWN after the test. This is just to ensure the alert is working should you deploy speedbrakes with the flaps in any position except UP.

Bad spoiler mixing juju happens with this airplane.
The A320 has an automated Checklist for Takeoff and Landing,all items are displayed in blue, after they are done, they change to green. I don't know which system does these checks, but its done automatically. And the Spoilers have to be armed not only for testing, they must remain in this position until liftoff, to ensure spoiler deployment in case of RTO. The system works a little bit different, then the boeing does.

[Efe Cem Elci]

The A320 has an automated Checklist for Takeoff and Landing,all items are displayed in blue, after they are done, they change to green. I don't know which system does these checks, but its done automatically. And the Spoilers have to be armed not only for testing, they must remain in this position until liftoff, to ensure spoiler deployment in case of RTO. The system works a little bit different, then the boeing does.

Lol. I just realized this was in the Airbus forum. My apologies for getting all Boeingy. :wink:

[TobiBS]

So, I read the manual and it says spoiler lever is pulled to armed position.
If we think spoilers movement there is five detents first is 0?,
then comes second, third is 1/2 and after four comes full. Does the pilot push
the lever to first detent and then pull the lever up? How is this arming mechanism working? Thanks!
Just because I forget to answer the original question:

The lever of an A320 is normally facing a little bit to the front of the aircraft, this is the spoilers/speedbrake down position. To move it to the desired range, you have to push it down (into the pedestal) and then move it backwards. A detent is then only at the 1/2 position, which is important for the means of the auto flight concept where half speedbrakes is maximum with AP on and for pilot information. To activate the ground spoilers, the lever must be in the down position and can then be pulled up (out of the pedestal), but it remains in the down position, this is the reason why you can see pilots hitting on the pedestal while rolling out in some cockpit videos, to get the spoilers back in (dearming them).

You might have mistaken the 5 detent concept from the flap lever, there is also a stop between 2 and 3 to prevent the pilot from selecting the flaps to fast.

[dodiano]

Dude read my post... The ECAM memo is not a Checklist it self but a Reminder things that have to be done before takeoff... I wrote in my post after Engine start that is after you finish the push and started the engines you make the following steps:

PILOT FLYING:
- MODE SELECTOR ... IGN
- APU BLEED ... OFF
- APU MASTER ... OFF
PILOT NOT FLYING:
- SPEEDBRAKE ... ARM
- RUDDER TRIM .... ZERO
- FLAPS........ AT T/O SETTING
- PITCH TRIM SET.
- AFTER START CHECKLIST

That is where the SpeedBrake/spoilers are armed... Most of the ECAM memo Items are covered there and during Taxi after checking Flight Controls you check the radar, Predictive Winshear system in On, Set the Auto Brake in MAX and then you hit the T.O. No Blue switch.

About the Spoilr control handle there are no detents you push it Down and slide it to operate it and You pull it in the retracted position to arm it... No detents. Oh yeah TobiBS is right there is on in the middle halfway it is a small detent cause on the A-320 with A/P on you can only use Half of the SpeedBrakes not the case in the A-319 and A-321... I fly all 3 in the fleet

Regards,

Roberto

[TobiBS]

Dude read my post... The ECAM memo is not a Checklist it self but a Reminder things that have to be done before takeoff...
I never argued with that, I just pointed out that there is a mechanism that checks if the items are done and displays it in the ECAM as a reply to Michael, who asked how it is working. Maybe the term checklist is not correct, but that might be a language problem, as I am not a native speaker. :smile:

In my understanding the ECAM works like a multi item point on the checklist, because the all green/no blue check is performed as part of the before takeoff checklist and this ensures all items are done, isn't that what a checklist does? Also in the QRH checklist of the FCOM, it is presented that way.

Again I don't want to argue with you, especially as you are flying these babies everyday, but I don't understand what exactly in my statement was wrong. :?:

[dodiano]

No Actually the DUDE READ MY POST was for the first guy, and the rest was a clarification. What you said is right only that all the items I have mentioned are done not by a checklist but as what we call a flow... A flow is basically memorizing the standard operating procedures on what switch is intended to be pressed at what time...

Checklist are essential items that have to be done before you get to an specific phase for Example on the Bus:

BEFORE TAKE OFF CHECKLIST:

FLIGHT CONTROLS... CHECKED
FLIGHT INSTRUMENTS........CHECKED
BRIEFING........ CONFIRMED
FLAP SETTING...... CONFIG X
V1,VR,V2 , FLEX...... XX KNOTS, XX KNOTS, XX, KNOTS, XX TEMP.
ECAM MEMO...... T/O NO BLUE

Also what you mention as the QRH Checklist those are the Standard Operating Procedures Flows listed there as a reminder but you don't get out the QRH everytime you get into the plane and get those lists out and start pressing switches, it is not the way it is done... It is all a Flow and made by memory that is the difference between a Checklist and a Flow.

Regards,

Roberto

[TobiBS]

A flow is basically memorizing the standard operating procedures on what switch is intended to be pressed at what time...

Checklist are essential items that have to be done before you get to an specific phase for Example on the Bus:

BEFORE TAKE OFF CHECKLIST:

FLIGHT CONTROLS... CHECKED
FLIGHT INSTRUMENTS........CHECKED
BRIEFING........ CONFIRMED
FLAP SETTING...... CONFIG X
V1,VR,V2 , FLEX...... XX KNOTS, XX KNOTS, XX, KNOTS, XX TEMP.
ECAM MEMO...... T/O NO BLUE

Thanks for clarification Roberto, I forget about this especially due to the fact that the SOP is different from airline to airline, but unfortunately I don't have access to the airline specific documentation and have to rely on the Airbus Standard FCOM and QRH.

The QRH does not only have the Normal Procedures stated in Chapter 3, but also a Checlist in 7.01.

But I think this one was done before the research projects, where they found out that too much items on a checklist make pepole a bit lazy about checking them correctly, so the newer approach of designing checklists is to keep only important items in it and specific ones, not so many with set or checked, but more with values that can be compared e.g.

Good day,
Tobias

[dodiano]

Actually on TACA we fly Airbus SOP's so we stick to manufacturers SOP. So we are flying Airbus procedures up to date and you have no idea how much they change things from revision to revision. Actually what you have on 7.01 in the QRH those are the only Checklists for Standard Operating Procedures on the Airbus. So when you read on part 3 of the QRH all the Flows and then you see AFTER TAKEOFF CHECKLIST you refer to 7.01 and read the items there.

Regards,

Roberto

[mmakela]

Hello Roberto,

I read all Your posts, thank You for them!
I just got confused what is the difference between spoilers
and speedbrake.
So, after engines started ... speedbrakes (spoilers) armed
and before landing ... spoilers armed.
I was just confused what's the difference between "spoilers armed" and "speedbrake armed", but I got it finally :-)

[dodiano]

Ok Speedbrake is in the Air, Spoilers or Ground spoilers is in ground! Basically in the Air when speed brake in use the Middle Panels 2,3,4 deploy from the wing and when you land all 5 deploy and they become Ground Spoilers... "Speed brake Arm" is cause you use the speed brake handle pull it up and arm the Ground Spoilers.

But it is the same thing it is just to confuse the pilots and make it all seem hard :)

Take care,

Roberto

[Michael Carter]

In addition, those same spoilers help roll the aircraft in a turn. This is why bad things can happen in the 727 when flaps are out and spoilers are being used.

Roll rates increase tremendously and are not always predictable.