View Full Version : UK Builders 2009

02-12-2009, 06:59 PM
Evening all!

Ok we had some great trips last year and have increased our numbers so where do we fancy visiting this year?
It would have been great to visit some "fix-up shops" but I don't think we will get permission so anybody got any suggestions for a group visit or leads that could get a visit somewhere aviation related?


02-12-2009, 08:06 PM
Hi Mike,

How's about a visit to Real Simulatation in Knaresborough, yorkshire.

We could maybe negotiate a group discount on the 737-200 simulator and Fast jet simulator, not the cheapest of days out but a nice setting and rewarding flying, if there's a local strip nearby maybe some of the members who are real world flyers could turn up in their aircraft and take the rest for a flight or two around the yorkshire countryside.

Just an idea, I know you'll love it cause it's local-ish for you lol.



02-13-2009, 02:22 AM
what about RAF Cosford. some excellent aircraft on display both civil and military (anybody remember the TSR2?). the new 'cold war' exhibition is supposed to be something else.
cheers chaps.......... ian

02-13-2009, 03:13 AM
I could make Cosford when you talking about?

jonny d


02-13-2009, 05:50 AM
Ah yes the TSR2........large, very expensive, white and shaped like an elephant!

Cosford's good for me

02-13-2009, 06:45 AM
Count me in gents!
like the cosford idea and Yorkshire flight centre sound like great fun

02-13-2009, 07:47 AM
Sounds like Cosford will be the 1st 2009 UK builders meet!

Will propose some dates when I've checked when Easter is etc.

02-13-2009, 06:51 PM
:oops: Although I haven't technically built anything yet, can I come too? :oops:

Can I can I can I can I??? :p


02-14-2009, 01:12 AM
mike...... please, please, dont make it easter weekend. madame has decreed that we are decorating the den that weekend. we, as in she will direct operations from a safe distance :o))
have a great weekend chaps..... rgds ... ian

02-14-2009, 04:46 AM
mike...... please, please, dont make it easter weekend. madame has decreed that we are decorating the den that weekend. we, as in she will direct operations from a safe distance :o))
have a great weekend chaps..... rgds ... ian

Misunderstanding there Ian - was going to check when Easter was so we can avoid going then! Can't be carrying parts of planes around when our arms should be full of chocolate eggs! Although wouldn't you like an excuse to get out of the decorating....?

Nigel, seeing as you asked so nicely of course you can come too!
Will propose a date and then everyone can indicate whether they would like to come / alternatives...


Jake 747 400
02-18-2009, 06:38 PM
Hi everyone.
Real simulation is great Ive flown the 737 200 sim there.
Its pretty close for me Im in south yorkshire, barnsley.

02-19-2009, 04:16 PM
Where ever it is I'm in ;)

02-19-2009, 06:56 PM
Ok - what about RAF Cosford 19th April - week after Easter?
Can I have an indication of numbers as they will do a group tour - the date may change though if they are not able to do it that day...


Jake 747 400
02-19-2009, 06:59 PM
Hi, Ill come what day is the 19th if you know.

02-19-2009, 07:08 PM
Sunday, yeah sounds good to me;) any1 in the Preston area need a lift?

02-19-2009, 07:08 PM
Sorry - meant April 18th - Saturday (unless everyone prefers Sunday?)
Flamin' Mon - Sun Calendars!!!

Jake 747 400
02-19-2009, 07:12 PM
Hahaha its ok, I dont mind either day.
Just a quick thanks to everyone for being so welcomming.

02-20-2009, 06:17 PM
Hi guys, count me in for Cosford.

I also went to the simulator in Yorkshire, but frankly was quite dissapointed, in fact the visit there (which the good lady paid for as a birthday pressy), when I came away I though, I could make it more realistic than that, except for the moving platform that is.....

So I started to build my own, after having a good look at Ian's initial efforts, remember when it was in your dinning room Ian?

So count me in guys, I will speak to my other two sidekicks and see if they want to come along too.


02-20-2009, 06:23 PM
Thought I would bring you all up to date about the world tour, on the final stretches now, last Wednesday did the JFK to Halifax (Nov) and this Wednesday Halifax to Goose Bay (Canada).

Next stops: to Iceland then onto Greenland then back to EGCC.

Not sure if you guys have been keeping an eye on the Phidgets section, but I have managed to encorporate propper auto throttles into my TQ, with a lot of help from Peter Dowson and a chap called "Mr Roper", managed to steady down the erratic actions of the PMDG throttles to a nice and smooth operation using the LUA programme.

Anyway, nice to see we are all going out for another jolly, hope to hear from you soon.


02-21-2009, 08:16 AM
Hi Guys,
Please do count me in for that weekend in April. Either day should be fine, my current shifts are Mon-Fri only. A nice novelty for me, I must say! Mind you, it IS the day before payday...;)


02-22-2009, 05:40 PM
if im not working then il come along

03-08-2009, 07:05 PM
Well another two steps closer to good old Blighty, had to do the last one on my own John had hurt his back on someone, Whoops something??

John did an excellent approach and landing at Goose bay (NFLD) so we found ourselves at Stand 3 getting ready for departure, its 7:45 pm in UK so its still light there for our takeoff, we do all the checks programme the FMC and ask for pushback & start.

Our route is PORGY, 59:50N, 59:54.7N then direct into BGBW, wait for it, Narsaraque (I think thatís correct), basically a very small airfield in the South West of Greenland, only an offset NDB and a different offset DME to guide us down and in.....cooool.

We are departing on 26 (11,046 ft) with a wind of 290 degrees @ 08kts and 15SM vis Few @ 2000ft, BKN @ 5,300 ft. our destination's weather is:

Wind 080 @ 13kts 9999vis BKN @ 10,000ft, so looking nice and clear so far, both locations are very cold so the air is almost solid.

Given clearance to taxi to the 26 and wait, then line up and given clearance on runway heading to 7,000ft, so rev it up and off we go, nice climb out with good vis and a reasonable view, given a left turn onto 050 and clearance up to 15,000ft, increase speed to 250, then given clearance to 18K, after that accelerate to VNAV speeds 280 + and given own navigation.

Climbed again, with permission to 23, then 27 then 34 and finally to 35,000ft for the cruise at 0.77M, outside temp of -57 degrees with an 'almost' tailwind of 33 KTS.

So far so good, cleared descents to: 27, 24, 17, 9,000 8,000 7,000 and finally 5,800ft on a QNH of 1011, then here comes the bullet, cleared to BGBW own navigation Radar Service Terminated, good day.....charming!

However we have studied the approach charts for the destination and it is a complex Visual/Instrument approach, good job the weathers clear?

So what we have to do is approach in the opposite direction from the landing and cross over the NDB at a certain heading/height, that takes us away to its right and gives a chance to reduce height and speed for a sweeping left turn onto the visual approach to the runway 07, no left or right, just the one runway.

So with very large mountains to our left and right, underneath, behind and in front, well just about everywhere really, we start our decent, very closely following the precise instructions on the chart so we clear the hill in front of the runway (chart warns of Icebergs possible in the way of the runway..... great), but it is obvious that we are way too high.

So we climb straight ahead and put everything back up inside to keep the drag down to a minimum, whilst we claw our way over the very fast approaching mountains, well we think they are there, being out in the middle of nowhere there are no town or street lights to see anything with, so death will be swift and rather darkand cold If we get it wrong!

Hey Ho! we turn left again and do the same procedure only a little lower this time, and as we clear the preceding hill before the runway we dive down to lose the height quickly, so with just the PAPI and VASI to go by we manage to plonk it on the Keys and stop everything moving in a relatively short ground run, mind you the brake discs where smokin man.........!!

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So we are now at Stand 2, well there are only 2, a helicopter has pinched the other one?

Next step then is off to <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Iceland</st1:place></st1:country-region> and Kevlavik (BIKF).

Thought I would alter the time on the sim to see a bit of daylight on this one, so set things to be at dawn, this time we are, no Iím on me own, so this time I am on route via:

61:40N, 63:30N, EMBLA and direct to BIKF expected runway at <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Iceland</st1:place></st1:country-region> is 02 and I am leaving on 25, the opposite of the landing here, however this is a different day.

So FMC programmed, with all three reporting points logged in over the 670 miles of the trip.

Request pushback and start, get the phone dialling tone and a supposed ATC somewhere in the wilds, but he basically says, get on with it and do blind calls until you are airborne then contact the local ATC Centre, so thatís what I do, line up at my discretion and fly runway heading until I get to 9,000ft, then call up, he clears me to 15K and turns me hard left to make a straight line to Kevlafik.

Climb then to 18K, 23K, 34K and finally 35,000ft for the cruise at 0.78M, making excellent time on this leg because we have a 92 knot tail wind.....!!

The view on the climb out was magnificent with great swathes of Ice flow visible and deep valleys and inlets, or is it Fjords or something.....?

Anyway he starts to let us down as we are getting closer, first 27K, then 24, 15, 12, 9,000 with a turn left onto 090 degrees, then turn right onto 200 degrees for a left hand circuit onto the 02 for finals.

Further reduction in height to 3000 ft and a final direction change to115, then left again to intercept the ILS, with a QNH of 999........Low or what.

So I make the reductions in speed and flap increases, to what can only be described as a text book landing, must be getting used to it by now, have stopped bouncing it too.......!

Given ďtaxi to the rampĒ and park up in front of Gate 7.

So thatís were we are now and ready for the next trip which will take us on to Home soil, what do you think, straight to Manchester (start point), or maybe Aberdeen, Glasgow or Prestwick, what do you all think?

Best wishes


03-18-2009, 12:27 PM
11/03/09 Nearly there........!

Last but one trip, from BIKF (Keflavik) to EGPK (Prestwick).

Route: BREKI, 5910N, BEN direct to EGPK 744 miles all together.

Weather departure: (rather good), Wind 040 @ 11kts Few @ 1,700, BKN @ 3,000 otherwise SCT @ 4,000ft

Destination: 190 @ 14kts, Few @ 1,000 SCT 2,000. Nice?

Altered the time to depict us leaving Keflavik at dawn, so we could see things in the light?

So went for clearance after programming FMC and given Rnwy 02 to 6,000ft Q 1013.

Requested taxi and given clearance to the hold 02. Q1013

Line up and wait: Cleared Takeoff Runway heading climb to 6,000ft and off we go.........

Climbed out on runway heading to 6,000ft and given left turn on to 155 and climb to 11,000ft, then 165 and climb to 15K, own nav climb to 23K, then 29K, then 34K and finally 35K for the cruise, settled down at the cruise at 0.77M outside temp - 47 degrees C wind is at 248 degrees and at 102 knts...............!! nice tail wind?

We click on the 2 x simulation because we are short of time this evening, but when I click it back onto normal time, things start to go a bit funny.....!

Everything is very jerky and not good at all, I think maybe its the scenery I loaded up this afternoon, couldn't find and decent airport scenery for Scotland so downloaded a package, which included all the scenery for Scotland, so maybe its a bit tasking the old PC?

However we carry on, by the way John is at the controls and I'm doing all the other bits.

So ATC starts us down, firstly to 24K, then 23, 11 (reduce to 250kts), then they turn us on to 215 and reduce to 3,000ft, with a further turn onto 210, all appears OK so far until we see Prestwick go past us under the right wing, Mmmmmmm maybe they are vectoring us to a different approach?

So as we watch Edinburgh start to appear on the radar and horizon, we call up (using RC4) and request the runway again, this time they respond by turning us back to where we came from, is it possible for a computer programme to forget you......?

So they vector us back over the sea for an approach onto 13.

Normal reductions in speed and flap setting finally lined up at 150kts with 30 degrees of flap for an ILS approach.

John calls for A/P disconnect at 300ft and makes an excellent landing slap bang on the keys, well done John!

Almost lost it a bit slowing up, but John manages to keep it on the Tarmac, so we taxi off to the ramp and we are now at Stand 3A.

So tonight 18th of March we are making the last leg, Prestwick (EGPK) to the homestead (EGCC) Manchester, will feel rather sad to have completed it all, but it was fun all the same.

Saturday I, along with the trouble & strife will be sitting in seat 29 a/b/c/d/e/ or something like that on an A320 to Feuteventura for a weeks holiday, so when I get back maybe I will follow the route you World Charity guys did? Tell me did you fly all the way, with those long trips over the sea at normal time or double up?

Well that's it until tonight


03-19-2009, 07:36 PM
Well we finally made it back to the old homestead (Manchester) after a long trip around the northern hemisphere.

Our last leg was from Prestwick (EGPK) to Manchester (EGCC).

Route, not very long or complex: DCS, D16V, Lakey, Daley then to EGCC via DAL1A. Well that's the plan?

Weather: couldn't be better, EGPK 280 @ 5 kts, 6000 vis, Few @ 2,800 Q1029.

EGCC: 000 @ 0 kts, 7000 vis, NSC, Q1029 nice high pressure.

We are at stand 3 in Prestwick and programmed the simple journey into FMC, whilst getting an update for the weather and getting clearance for the trip.

We are cleared to depart on 31 and hold prior to the runway, so we push back and start up the engines and contact ground for taxi.

We taxi down to 31 and contact departure for takeoff, they ask us to line up and wait, then give us clearance to go; climb to 6,000ft runway heading, off we go and given turn left onto 140 and climb to 11,000ft.

Now given 135 and climb to 15,000ft, our cruise height for this leg, cleared for own navigation.

Now we are back in a country where we can recognise, we can actually pick out various landscapes as we fly south, Lancaster, Blackpool, Preston St Annes are all visible.

ATC then asks us to descend top 8,000 an contact Manchester approach, who tell us we should expect 24R. (Actually it should be 23R, but FS9 hasn't caught up with the magnetic north changes yet).

Asked to turn onto 170 and reduce to 5,000ft, then 055 (parallel with 24) for a right hand circuit, descend to 3,500 ft and turn right onto 145 degrees and then 205 degrees to intercept the ILS for 24R.

Slowing down and applying flaps in the usual way we capture the centre line at about 13 miles out and engage VOR lock to keep us on line, at about 8.5 miles out we capture the Glide slope and switch to "APP" for the ILS, reduce speed to 150kts with 30 degrees flap and given clearance to land about 3.5 miles out.

Disengage A/P at 300ft and touch down slightly after the keys, reverse thrust and a little brake application and we get off the runway at AF and report in, "cleared to the ramp" and we park up at stand 21 Terminal 1.

So where have we been? all together we have visited 30 different airports, covered 21,361 miles and sat in the attic for a total of 83 hours and 4 minutes (that includes all the flying time plus 1 hour for each trip setting everything up, including FMC programme taxi etc.)

Had some fun on the way, crashed it a few times, ran into the stand once, ran out of fuel after landing, couldn't make the terminal, done loads of "Go around's", but overall thoroughly enjoyed every minute of it, well done to my pal for most of the trip (John).

Made some improvements to the Sim too, added a proper working FMC, and Auto Throttles as well!!, plus other little bits and bobs with enunciators working correctly and the like.

Well off to Feuteventura on Saturday, for a real flight and a weeks holiday, so see you all when we (missus & me) get back?


04-14-2009, 04:30 PM
Hi Guys,
Must apologise over this but unfortunately due to some rather stressful times in 'the real world' I had completely forgotten about this and never got round to sorting it out.
If anyone is still interested in going I will see what they can offer us later on in the year - perhaps when the weather is nicer too???

04-14-2009, 05:57 PM
Hi Mike,
I had forgotten it too! But I'm still keen to meet up with some of you clever people and steal your ideas. Maybe even buy you a beer too! Usually on shift work but I have a respite at the moment from that - as long as I know in advance I should be able to book the relevant day off.


04-14-2009, 06:05 PM
I can still do that date, anyone else interested?


04-14-2009, 06:19 PM
18th of what, Dave? I can't be bothered going back over the whole thread. Not THIS Saturday is it??


04-15-2009, 04:51 AM
That was the plan?

To go to Cosford on the 18th, ensuring that we left Easter for families etc.


04-15-2009, 04:53 AM
However looking back through the thread, it may have been agreed to go on the Sunday (19th).